15:00:22 #startmeeting FESCO (2020-04-06) 15:00:22 Meeting started Mon Apr 6 15:00:22 2020 UTC. 15:00:22 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 15:00:22 The chair is contyk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00:22 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00:22 The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2020-04-06)' 15:00:24 #meetingname fesco 15:00:24 The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 15:00:26 #chair nirik, ignatenkobrain, decathorpe, zbyszek, bookwar, sgallagh, contyk, mhroncok, dcantrell 15:00:26 Current chairs: bookwar contyk dcantrell decathorpe ignatenkobrain mhroncok nirik sgallagh zbyszek 15:00:28 #topic init process 15:00:31 .hello psabata 15:00:32 contyk: psabata 'Petr Šabata' 15:00:34 .hello2 15:00:35 dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' 15:00:38 .hello2 15:00:39 .hello2 15:00:39 bookwar: bookwar 'Aleksandra Fedorova' 15:00:41 .hello2 15:00:41 decathorpe: decathorpe 'Fabio Valentini' 15:00:45 sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' 15:00:52 .hello2 15:00:53 frantisekz: frantisekz 'František Zatloukal' 15:00:58 morning 15:01:02 .hello2 15:01:03 zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' 15:01:07 hello 15:01:44 Looks like we have a quorum. 15:02:24 Let's start with Miro's topic. 15:02:40 #topic #2369 Request: Postpone F32 Final Freeze by 3 ≤ N ≤ 7 days 15:02:45 .fesco 2369 15:02:46 contyk: Issue #2369: Request: Postpone F32 Final Freeze by 3 ≤ N ≤ 7 days - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2369 15:03:02 this is from today, but in order to amek sens, would need to be approved today 15:03:09 *to make sense 15:03:10 I'm ok with this, but I will also note that the problems are not yet solved... 15:03:42 nirik: the problmes not sovled is "OK" here. the added time is to workaround them for things that we planned to ship before the freeze 15:03:59 (at least that's how I see it) 15:04:01 nirik: sure, this would just be an additional buffer to get important things done. 15:04:15 sure, just noting it for the record. :) 15:04:16 I'm ok with some extra time for the delays. I noticed bodhi has been really slow lately 15:04:35 mhroncok: what is the outstanding stuff that is being worked on? 15:04:36 I wonder if QA would be OK. we have frantisekz here 15:04:47 .hello2 15:04:48 bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' 15:04:53 adamw? I think we're okay 15:04:54 i'm here too 15:05:11 +1 15:05:17 for qa purposes delaying freeze is better than people trying to get big stuff in with FEs, i guess 15:05:27 zbyszek: generally packagers who wanted to ship stuff prior to freeze but now they wouldn't make it 15:05:33 nirik: does it increase the risk of us having to start moving infra before we're done with f32? 15:05:54 hmm, wait 15:05:57 if we delay a week it would be... not great 15:06:06 if we accept this, do we slip the whole schedule? or only have a shorter freeze? 15:06:07 if we just delay a few days thats probibly fine 15:06:15 nirik: is it Ok not to have freeze on Tuesday? 15:06:29 I can reduce my request to 1-2 additional days :) 15:06:45 sure, just would mean less days in it if we still release on tuesday 15:07:26 is Friday realistic? it's a holiday in CZ 15:07:44 it's a holiday in the us too I think? 15:07:54 I'd propose Friday if that's Ok to releng, Thursday otherwise 15:08:10 Friday is a US RHT holiday 15:08:14 +1 to mhroncok 15:08:21 I think thursday would be better... mboddu could chime in since he's doing the work probibly. 15:08:34 ok, a proposal... 15:08:58 although it's not too much, just updates pushing scheduled I guess 15:09:11 Fedora 32 Final Freeze is posponed to Thursday 2020-04-09 14:00 UTC 15:09:30 I'm fine with that. 15:09:36 works for me 15:09:36 +1 15:09:39 +1 15:09:44 Well, Friday or Thursday doesn't matter in this time, I am okay with anything 15:09:51 +1 15:09:52 +1 15:09:58 and to be clear, no slip in other milestones right? 15:10:03 * mboddu didn't even know Fri is a US holiday, thanks dcantrell :) 15:10:16 mboddu: np, I tend to forget each year too 15:10:21 mboddu: thursday it is... enjoy the holiday you didn't know about 15:10:30 nirik: correct 15:10:37 oh. 15:10:43 well if someone answered that before people started voting i would have said: 15:10:54 a shorter freeze is always going to come with a higher risk to the ultimate schedule, that's just...QA math 15:11:02 yeah. 15:11:04 we can work with it, but bear it in mind 15:11:25 adamw: do you think the 2 days differ justifies to move everything? 15:11:40 mhroncok: two days, probably not 15:11:42 I trust adamw's decision on that 15:11:49 just gives us a slightly higher risk of ultimately slipping 15:11:55 adamw: Right, but we still have rain date, if anything happens, hopefully we will be ready by rain date at the least 15:12:00 sure 15:12:30 So, with ignatenkobrain and dcantrell voting in the ticket for even a longer delay, I think we're +8. 15:12:33 bookwar: ? 15:12:45 +1, to postponing for 2 days, no slipping for the rest of the schedule 15:13:12 #agreed Fedora 32 Final Freeze is posponed to Thursday 2020-04-09 14:00 UTC (+9, 0, -0) 15:13:24 #action bcotton to update schedule 15:13:25 * mboddu sends an email to the lists 15:13:34 bcotton++ 15:13:35 sgallagh: Karma for bcotton changed to 19 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 15:13:36 mboddu++ 15:13:44 thanks guys. I hope this makes today and tomorrow less stressful 15:13:46 Quick action, nice. 15:13:46 thanks 15:13:51 Yay. 15:13:51 (not sure if #action can be done by non-chairs, but either way i'll have this done by the end of the meeting) 15:13:55 * nirik works more on the kojira issue 15:14:12 Alright, next. 15:14:16 #topic #2364 F33 System-Wide Change: Introduce module Obsoletes and EOL 15:14:24 .fesco 2364 15:14:26 contyk: Issue #2364: F33 System-Wide Change: Introduce module Obsoletes and EOL - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2364 15:14:46 So we have -1 from ignatenkobrain in the ticket. 15:14:59 But he's not around. 15:15:10 I am not sure if we should discuss this today... 15:15:14 I think this needs more discussion on the mailing list. 15:15:15 because owners did not have chance to reply 15:15:22 yes, and that too. 15:15:31 ignatenkobrain: bring your topics to the devel list? 15:15:36 People were busy with other things, there's a few big threads happenning in parallel. 15:15:39 yes, I was planning to. 15:15:44 Perhaps you're right. I personally have mixed feelings about this but I need to think more about it. 15:15:54 I need more time as well 15:16:00 It's not entirely new, the DNF team's been proposing it for a while. 15:16:08 yeah, I think there's a lot of feedback that could be folded back into the change 15:16:44 #info This topic needs more discussion and responses from the proposal owners. We'll discuss this next week. 15:16:57 Note that next week is a holiday in many countrires 15:17:01 (Though not the US) 15:17:14 I'll try to be here but no promises. 15:17:39 Chances are the discussion will still be ongoing by then anyway. 15:17:43 #topic #2365 F33 System-Wide Change: ELN Buildroot and Compose 15:17:49 .fesco 2365 15:17:50 contyk: Issue #2365: F33 System-Wide Change: ELN Buildroot and Compose - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2365 15:18:02 this will be a fun one. ;) 15:18:22 so do we want to also wait for more discussion here? since it's still going on? 15:18:30 yes please. 15:18:56 FWIW, if anyone cares I am +1... have been meaning to reply into the thread, just haven't gotten time. 15:18:56 I spoke with mhroncok about this at length about an hour ago 15:19:39 He made some good points about lack of clarity in some places and I'm working to get those incorporated, but I didn't have time to finish ahead of this meeting. 15:20:05 This might be a short meeting after all. 15:20:12 I think it's probably sensible to postpone the formal vote, but I'm concerned about the possible lack of quorum next week 15:20:14 zbyszek: do you have anything in particular you want to have covered? 15:20:16 sgallagh: so are you revising the proposal again? 15:20:36 I wonder if it would help some folks concerns if we added some kind of sunset provision... like, "check in 6 months and consider if there's been bad or good impact and how much disruption"? 15:20:46 bookwar: I certainly want to see the latest update that sgallagh mentioned. 15:20:50 dcantrell: Yes, though as I said it should be a clarification rather than changing 15:21:02 ok, sounds good 15:21:55 if next week is going to have problems with quorum, we can always vote in the ticket on our own schedule 15:21:56 I can enumerate the comments here if people want 15:22:12 I'd like a commitment to that :) 15:22:13 Please. 15:22:45 FWIW it seemed to me that we were on the same page with sgallagh and if the things get clarified in the change I will vote +1, but I like to re-announce the thing for another week of discussion - but if there is no quorum next monday, it would be good if we commit to vote fast, in the ticket 15:23:14 mhroncok: Thank you 15:23:39 I'm fine with voting fast. 15:24:13 OK, my plan is to get those changes written up and published by EOB today. 15:24:24 I'll send another message to devel@ when it's ready 15:24:27 * nirik is happy when consensus can be reached 15:24:45 Does anyone want me to summarize for this meeting or just await the write-up? 15:24:47 #info sgallagh will address mhroncok's comments and clarify the proposal; we will vote next week; in case of no quorum, we commit to voting in the ticket async. 15:25:10 If you could summarize here, that'd be great. 15:26:34 Sure, just one second. SIGKIDS 15:26:55 Make sure to kill all your children before you die. 15:27:45 that's dark 15:28:09 yikes 15:28:20 damn dude 15:28:29 * contyk hides 15:29:13 OK, I'm back 15:29:22 Quarantine is FUN 15:29:32 ok, let me summarize the main points. 15:29:46 (mhroncok please feel free to let me know if I missed some points) 15:31:06 * The Summary doesn't do a good job covering "Why" we are doing this. I'm going to explain about experimenting with things like AVX2 without disrupting Fedora and helping prep for future RHEL releases (including future-proofing conditinoals) 15:31:58 * Describe the relationship to Rawhide better. The Rawhide build of any package not built for ELN will be present in the buildroot and compose. 15:32:19 That's if it's not built intentionally or because it fails. 15:32:35 There are more details around that, but I'll cover those in the Proposal 15:33:39 * The time-limit on the PRs we send is a non-responsive check; it's not a hard limit. Once the maintainer responds, nothing happens without their agreement. 15:34:32 * We will handle side-tags by waiting until they are tagged back into Rawhide, then we will rebuild in ELN. There are some additional details on tagging I will include in the proposal 15:34:44 EOF 15:34:51 Thank you. 15:34:52 mhroncok: Did I miss anything obvious? 15:35:59 the current proposal focuses on conditionals too much. the "what happens if the ELn build fails" will now first mention that the older or rawhide build will be used. conditionals are to be primarily fixed, not added 15:36:49 I think thats probibly due to the list discussion focusing on them, but yeah... 15:37:03 nirik: it was a spiral 15:37:08 It always is. 15:37:11 Heh 15:37:31 Okay, let's move on. 15:37:36 #topic Next week's chair 15:37:49 Our favorite part. 15:38:07 I'm nto sure i'll be here 15:38:10 *not 15:38:16 Same here. 15:38:23 I'll take it for next week, but if we lack quorum I may not be around the week after 15:38:41 That was poorly phrased 15:38:49 I can take the 20th 15:38:52 I can take the one two weeks fr-- 15:38:54 Or Miro. 15:39:19 #action sgallagh will chair the next meeting. 15:39:29 #action mhroncok will chair the meeting of 2020-04-20 15:39:38 #topic Open Floor 15:40:18 Closing in a minute if there's nothing. 15:41:08 Okay. Thank you all for attending. 15:41:11 #endmeeting