14:01:30 <mhroncok> #startmeeting FESCO (2020-07-08) 14:01:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 8 14:01:30 2020 UTC. 14:01:30 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 14:01:30 <zodbot> The chair is mhroncok. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:01:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:01:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2020-07-08)' 14:01:35 <mhroncok> #meetingname fesco 14:01:35 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 14:01:38 <mhroncok> #chair nirik, ignatenkobrain, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, cverna, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor 14:01:38 <zodbot> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku cverna dcantrell decathorpe ignatenkobrain mhroncok nirik sgallagh zbyszek 14:01:41 <mhroncok> #topic init process#topic init process#topic init process 14:01:43 <mhroncok> #topic init process 14:01:45 <zbyszek> .hello2 14:01:46 <zodbot> zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@in.waw.pl> 14:01:47 <dcantrell> .hello2 14:01:49 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com> 14:01:56 <nirik> morning 14:02:26 <mhroncok> .hello churchyard 14:02:26 <zodbot> mhroncok: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' <mhroncok@redhat.com> 14:03:03 <mhroncok> zbyszek, dcantrell, nirik: hey 14:03:06 <decathorpe> .hello2 14:03:07 <zodbot> decathorpe: decathorpe 'Fabio Valentini' <decathorpe@gmail.com> 14:03:26 * mhroncok forgot to send out IRC announcement before the meeting, sorry about that 14:03:38 <mhroncok> with decathorpe, we have quorum 14:03:39 <King_InuYasha> .hello ngompa 14:03:39 <zodbot> King_InuYasha: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com> 14:03:49 <mhroncok> that's 6 14:04:08 <dcantrell> I am again concurrently in this meeting and the fedora council meeting 14:04:10 * cverna waives 14:04:24 <mhroncok> 7 14:04:51 <ignatenkobrain> .hello2 14:04:52 <zodbot> ignatenkobrain: ignatenkobrain 'Igor Raits' <igor.raits@gmail.com> 14:04:54 <mhroncok> 8 14:05:09 <mhroncok> #topic #2420 F33 System-Wide Change: Use %make_build and %make_install macros 14:05:13 <mhroncok> .fesco 2420 14:05:25 <mhroncok> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2420 14:05:46 <mhroncok> does anybody has an actionable proposal for this? 14:06:22 <nirik> is part of this already landed? I haven't looked but there was talk on devel about it? 14:06:47 <zbyszek> proposal: approve Neal's proposal in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2420#comment-662515 and ask change owner to reopen discussion if they think more should happen than that. 14:07:04 <zbyszek> (for reference, the proposal was: 14:07:07 <zbyszek> > I'm basically only in favor of making make %{?_smp_mflags} -> %make_build and make DESTDIR=%{buildroot} install -> %make_install substitutions. The rest, I feel very iffy about just going and changing. 14:07:11 <zbyszek> )) 14:07:33 <ignatenkobrain> +1 14:07:42 <nirik> +1 14:07:53 <zbyszek> nirik: maybe you're thinking about the cmake change? 14:07:57 <decathorpe> +1. anything more can always be a "second step" 14:08:00 <cverna> +1` 14:08:08 <nirik> zbyszek: ah, could be. 14:08:12 * nirik has more coffee 14:08:27 <mhroncok> AFAIK they already said on the mailing list that if the change is reduced to this, they loose interest 14:08:34 * mhroncok looks 14:09:32 <decathorpe> well, but doing "more" is potentially harmful and / or pointless in some cases :( 14:09:34 <mhroncok> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/CPRVJJ56XSF4S6DSYIPVXHEXUXGR4PUX/ 14:10:33 <decathorpe> His suggestion to restrict to "make 'build', check, and install targets" sounds good though. 14:10:46 <mhroncok> exactly 14:10:50 <mhroncok> tstellar: are you around? 14:11:02 <zbyszek> The guidelines have been requiring parallelism for years, and reviews have been fairly strict about this. So I don't expect non-parallel builds where it would be OK and make an actual difference. 14:11:17 <King_InuYasha> +1 to my own proposal :) 14:11:27 * nirik agrees with zbyszek there. 14:11:32 <zbyszek> And failures can be non-deterministic, so "it built fine" is not enough of a test. 14:12:09 <mhroncok> the proposal is basically declining the change as is and replacing it for a mass spec update (that doesn't change the output), is that intentional? 14:12:35 <zbyszek> mhroncok: yes 14:12:52 <mhroncok> I am +-0 14:13:16 <mhroncok> I count +6 14:13:35 <mhroncok> dcantrell: ? 14:13:48 <dcantrell> I'd like to hear from tstellar before a vote on the new proposal 14:14:43 <mhroncok> dcantrell: how do I count that? 14:15:16 <dcantrell> I'm not opposed to the new proposal, but I'm not considering myself a +1 yet 14:15:19 <dcantrell> so, 0? 14:15:25 <mhroncok> ack 14:15:39 <dcantrell> I don't know the differences again between -0, 0, and +0 with regards to voting 14:15:42 <dcantrell> I remember we talked about it once 14:15:53 <zbyszek> Difference is only psychological 14:15:57 <dcantrell> heh 14:15:59 <King_InuYasha> :) 14:16:00 <mhroncok> #agreed Neal's proposal in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2420#comment-662515 and ask change owner to reopen discussion if they think more should happen than that. APPROVED (+6, 2, -0) 14:16:36 <mhroncok> #topic Next week's chair 14:16:52 <zbyszek> I mean, if there are packages which are not building in parallel and they should, let's fix that by all means too. 14:17:08 <zbyszek> But I don't think this should be hidden under a wide sweep of macro changes. 14:17:13 <mhroncok> zbyszek: sure but that is happening currently as well 14:17:22 <zbyszek> Yes. 14:17:26 <mhroncok> zbyszek: ack 14:17:32 <mhroncok> Next week's chair? 14:17:33 <dcantrell> zbyszek: ack 14:17:51 <zbyszek> I can do it. 14:17:57 <mhroncok> #action zbyszek will chair next meeting 14:17:59 <mhroncok> zbyszek++ 14:18:01 <zodbot> mhroncok: Karma for zbyszek changed to 7 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 14:18:02 <mhroncok> thank you 14:18:09 <mhroncok> #topic Open Floor 14:18:21 <mhroncok> dcantrell: Any update on council changing their meeting time? 14:18:35 <dcantrell> yes, it looks like we can move the council meeting. I was going to verify that today 14:18:50 <dcantrell> unless bcotton is here now, who knows. we all seem to be in all the meetings all the time 14:19:00 <dcantrell> I see Neal on my iPad right now and in this meeting 14:19:03 <bcotton> ohai 14:19:10 <dcantrell> bcotton: are we moving the council meeting? 14:19:13 <bcotton> there's a proposal in the works but not a final decision 14:19:13 <nirik> all meetings all the time. 14:19:41 <bcotton> the people most affected have yet to weigh in 14:19:55 <mhroncok> all your meeting times are belong to us 14:19:55 <dcantrell> bcotton: *sigh*, ok. 14:20:04 <mhroncok> bcotton: thnaks for the update 14:20:14 <mhroncok> anything else for the open floor? 14:20:16 <bcotton> dcantrell: if you expect council to ever do anything quickly, you will be very sad :-) 14:20:23 <mhroncok> :D 14:20:25 <dcantrell> bcotton: noted 14:20:42 <dcantrell> not related to anything, but over 60 days after I ordered a Prusa 3D printer, it is arriving tomorrow 14:20:58 <dcantrell> ordering during a pandemic is...fun 14:21:14 <decathorpe> mhroncok: Do we want to discuss our preordained votes for next week's tickets? 14:21:20 * nirik just got the pinephone he ordered many months ago 14:21:42 <mhroncok> decathorpe: our preordained votes? 14:21:54 <bcotton> decathorpe++ 14:22:04 <decathorpe> I mean, like, the backroom dealings people think we do :) 14:22:19 <mhroncok> why on earth would we do that in a logged meeting? 14:22:22 <zbyszek> decathorpe, we're not supposed to talk about this. 14:22:25 <dcantrell> haha 14:22:30 <decathorpe> oh right. silly me 14:22:34 <nirik> ha 14:22:54 <bcotton> i'll send everyone Red Hat's decrees via carrier pigeon by the end of the week 14:22:58 <mhroncok> we meet in the back ally as usual 14:23:15 <decathorpe> bcotton: I'll keep my window open 14:23:52 <dcantrell> so RFC2549 or RFC6214? 14:24:08 <mhroncok> with that, I think we can end the meeting and continue plotting secretly 14:24:14 <bcotton> an unpublished RFC, of course 14:24:18 <decathorpe> mhroncok++ 14:24:18 <bcotton> mhroncok++ 14:24:23 <dcantrell> mhroncok++ 14:24:23 <zodbot> dcantrell: Karma for churchyard changed to 11 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 14:24:24 <mhroncok> dcantrell: enjoy your printer 14:24:34 <mhroncok> nirik: and your phone 14:24:38 <dcantrell> the first thing I'm going to have it do is print more of itself! 14:24:44 <mhroncok> #endmeeting