14:00:25 <zbyszek> #startmeeting FESCO (2020-09-09) 14:00:25 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 9 14:00:25 2020 UTC. 14:00:25 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 14:00:25 <zodbot> The chair is zbyszek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:00:25 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:00:25 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2020-09-09)' 14:00:26 <zbyszek> #meetingname fesco 14:00:26 <zbyszek> #chair nirik, ignatenkobrain, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, cverna, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor 14:00:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 14:00:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku cverna dcantrell decathorpe ignatenkobrain mhroncok nirik sgallagh zbyszek 14:00:28 <zbyszek> #topic init process 14:00:33 <zbyszek> .hello2 14:00:34 <bcotton> .hello2 14:00:36 <dcantrell> .hello2 14:00:37 <zodbot> zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@in.waw.pl> 14:00:40 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com> 14:00:41 <King_InuYasha> .hello ngompa 14:00:43 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com> 14:00:46 <zodbot> King_InuYasha: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com> 14:00:47 <cverna> hello 14:00:55 <mhroncok> .hello churchyard 14:00:56 <zodbot> mhroncok: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' <mhroncok@redhat.com> 14:01:01 <zbyszek> quorum 14:01:03 <nirik> morning 14:01:07 <decathorpe> .hello2 14:01:08 <zodbot> decathorpe: decathorpe 'Fabio Valentini' <decathorpe@gmail.com> 14:01:46 <zbyszek> OK, let's start. 14:01:49 <zbyszek> #2470 F34 Self-Contained Change: Reduce installation media size by improving the compression ratio of SquashFS filesystem 14:01:52 <zbyszek> .fesco 2470 14:01:53 <zodbot> zbyszek: Issue #2470: F34 Self-Contained Change: Reduce installation media size by improving the compression ratio of SquashFS filesystem - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2470 14:02:05 <zbyszek> #topic #2470 F34 Self-Contained Change: Reduce installation media size by improving the compression ratio of SquashFS filesystem 14:02:08 <zbyszek> .fesco 2470 14:02:09 <zodbot> zbyszek: Issue #2470: F34 Self-Contained Change: Reduce installation media size by improving the compression ratio of SquashFS filesystem - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2470 14:02:17 <King_InuYasha> uhh 14:02:22 <zbyszek> A bunch of people voted -1 14:03:25 <cverna> after reading the devel list thread just before that meeting, I ll vote -1 too 14:03:29 <nirik> would be nice to hear from the change owner(s) 14:03:43 <zbyszek> proposal: ask the change owner to come up with a change that does decreases installation time to help QA and multiple installations. 14:03:52 <cverna> sounds like the QA concerns are valid to me 14:04:01 <cverna> zbyszek: +1 14:04:20 <decathorpe> zbyszek: didn't we do the same thing last time? 14:04:48 <zbyszek> So... 14:04:52 <King_InuYasha> I'm pretty sure someone asked in devel@ about that 14:05:00 <King_InuYasha> and I didn't see a response 14:05:20 <zbyszek> I think there is potential for improvement by playing with the compressin alg and options. But the Owner is focussing on the wrong metric. 14:05:31 <King_InuYasha> yeah 14:05:36 <dcantrell> this is a thing that people always came to us about in anaconda 14:05:47 * mhroncok feels we already had this discussion cou ple months ago 14:05:48 <King_InuYasha> I'd like to see roughly the same compression and reducing the time-to-live 14:05:49 <zbyszek> dcantrell: "this" ? 14:05:56 <dcantrell> install image size 14:06:14 <dcantrell> it's intractable within fedora. focusing on the compression algorithm is more or less wasted effort 14:06:25 <dcantrell> a short term workaround 14:06:31 <dcantrell> with too many disadvantages 14:06:36 <zbyszek> dcantrell: hmm, but nobody said on fedora-devel that they care about image size. If you have that perspective, please share. 14:06:56 <dcantrell> the two things I read were about either (a) make the image smaller or (b) make it unpack faster 14:07:11 <dcantrell> the majority of people seem to be concerned with speed, which is fine 14:07:14 <zbyszek> dcantrell: so there's a PR to use unsquash instead of rsync that makes things faster, POC stage. 14:07:17 <dcantrell> talking about the compression algorithm impacts both of those 14:07:59 <decathorpe> the impression I got was that switching to zstd would greatly benefit installation time at almost no price in terms of image size, which sounds like a better trade off to me 14:08:07 <King_InuYasha> yup 14:08:18 <King_InuYasha> that's pretty much why we made the change for rpm, and why zchunk uses it 14:08:50 <nirik> well, in this case most of the install isn't on the media tho right? 14:09:16 * nirik re-reads again 14:09:44 <decathorpe> IMO if we really want to make images smaller, we should rather focus on Minimization rather than cranking up the compression further and further 14:09:54 <dcantrell> decathorpe++ 14:09:59 <zbyszek> decathorpe: yep 14:10:04 <dcantrell> that's basically what I wanted to point out 14:10:16 <dcantrell> focusing on the compression ratio will never solve the size problem 14:10:52 <dcantrell> everyone who works on software that targets the install media needs to be aware of the concept of limited space and on board with enabling that, be it through disabling compile time options or creating subpackages to make it easier to construct smaller install images 14:11:11 <decathorpe> dcantrell++ 14:11:40 <zbyszek> Yep, we also have some stuff that isn't necessary. There has some more discussion on fedora-devel recently. 14:11:54 <dcantrell> with regard to compression, I do favor zstd over xz for the speed and compression benefits. xz is nice, but is super slow 14:11:55 <decathorpe> every time I install Workstation from live image I wonder why some huge packages are included ... 14:12:16 <zbyszek> Anyway, let's vote on the change. 14:12:31 <zbyszek> Does anyone *who didn't vote in the ticket* want to cast a vote? 14:12:44 <decathorpe> I think I didn't vote in ticket, so -1 14:12:49 <zbyszek> nirik? 14:13:00 <zbyszek> cverna? 14:13:20 <cverna> -1 14:13:27 <zbyszek> sgallagh? 14:13:36 <nirik> Sorry, I was getting confused by 'installer image'... but yes this definitely needs more/different work -1 14:13:52 <zbyszek> #agree REJECTED (0, 0, -8) 14:13:59 <zbyszek> #topic Next week's chair 14:14:03 <zbyszek> Volunteers? 14:14:24 * mhroncok might missthe next week 14:14:57 <cverna> I can take next week 14:15:15 <zbyszek> #action cverna will chair next meeting 14:15:17 <zbyszek> Thanks. 14:15:21 <zbyszek> #topic Open Floor 14:15:43 <zbyszek> Anything major work-needing items for F33? 14:16:29 <King_InuYasha> we seem to be okay for F33 so far 14:16:40 <decathorpe> tomorrow is the GitLab AMA, will some FESCo representative(s) be there? 14:16:45 <nirik> less blockers would be nice. ;) 14:16:49 <zbyszek> decathorpe: I plan to be there. 14:16:59 <mhroncok> decathorpe: I've voted on some questions there 14:17:14 <cverna> I ll be there also but mostly to answer questions :) 14:17:23 <decathorpe> yeah, I added some things to the hackmd thingie too 14:17:35 <King_InuYasha> I haven't had a chance to go over that hackmd yet 14:17:51 <King_InuYasha> mostly spent my time last weekend on Akademy 2020 14:17:58 <King_InuYasha> (and giving my talk on Fedora KDE!) 14:18:10 <decathorpe> nice :) 14:18:45 <zbyszek> #info https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/33/beta/buglist 14:18:50 <bcotton> King_InuYasha++ 14:18:59 <zbyszek> King_InuYasha++ 14:19:14 <decathorpe> ngompa++ 14:19:14 <zodbot> decathorpe: Karma for ngompa changed to 17 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 14:19:51 <zbyszek> So... anything else? 14:20:08 <zbyszek> If not, I'll close in a minute. 14:20:25 <decathorpe> can't think of anything right now :) 14:20:51 <zbyszek> King_InuYasha: kudos for the KDE wayland change, seems to be another cool thing. 14:21:04 <King_InuYasha> zbyszek: :D 14:21:11 <King_InuYasha> I'm moving up the stack for the first time :D 14:21:24 <zbyszek> OK, thanks all, see you next week. 14:21:28 <zbyszek> #endmeeting