15:00:37 <cverna> #startmeeting FESCO (2021-02-24)
15:00:37 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 24 15:00:37 2021 UTC.
15:00:37 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:00:37 <zodbot> The chair is cverna. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:37 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:37 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2021-02-24)'
15:00:37 <cverna> #meetingname fesco
15:00:37 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
15:00:44 <cverna> #chair nirik, ignatenkobrain, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, cverna, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor
15:00:44 <zodbot> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku cverna dcantrell decathorpe ignatenkobrain mhroncok nirik sgallagh zbyszek
15:00:47 <zbyszek> .hello2
15:00:48 <zodbot> zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@in.waw.pl>
15:00:48 <dcantrell> .hello2
15:00:49 <bcotton> .hello2
15:00:50 <cverna> #topic init process
15:00:51 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
15:00:54 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
15:01:16 <cverna> hello lovely fesco members :)
15:01:30 <zbyszek> hello glorious fesco chair !
15:01:47 <nirik> morning
15:01:59 <dcantrell> greetings
15:02:03 <cverna> :D that gives me energy to run the meeting
15:02:23 <mhroncok> .hello churchyard
15:02:23 <zodbot> mhroncok: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' <mhroncok@redhat.com>
15:02:25 <King_InuYasha> .hello ngompa
15:02:26 <zodbot> King_InuYasha: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
15:02:29 * King_InuYasha waves
15:02:44 <bcotton> hail cverna! hail cverna!
15:03:31 <cverna> ok let's dive into our first ticket
15:03:40 * dcantrell gets a swim cap
15:04:04 <cverna> #topic 2584 - Fedora 34 incomplete changes: 100% complete dealine
15:04:10 <cverna> .fesco 2584
15:04:11 <zodbot> cverna: Issue #2584: Fedora 34 incomplete changes: 100% complete dealine - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2584
15:04:45 <cverna> Ben Cotton: you want to take it from there ?
15:04:54 <bcotton> sure, boss
15:05:14 <cverna> :D thanks
15:05:28 <bcotton> so there are several changes that have not yet gone to ON_QA
15:05:36 <bcotton> a fwe of these are still assigned
15:05:49 <nirik> huh, Xfce should be done
15:05:58 <decathorpe> hello, sorry for being late
15:06:08 <bcotton> yeah, i figured a couple of them are just "bug not updated" type issues
15:06:42 <bcotton> #info Patches in Forge Macros is still in ASSIGNED
15:06:48 <bcotton> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1866896
15:06:53 <zbyszek> I see bind-32:9.16.11-2.fc34 here. So that seems to be done.
15:07:26 <bcotton> that one seems to be obsoleted by #2582 anyway, so i propose it be dropped
15:07:35 <bcotton> zbyszek: ack, i'll update
15:07:56 <bcotton> #info X.org Utility Deaggregation is still in ASSIGNED
15:07:58 <bcotton> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1867220
15:08:20 <mhroncok> Patches in Forge Macros seem abandoned
15:08:30 * mhroncok hasn't seen nim for a long time
15:08:34 <bcotton> this one has been punted a time or two, but there's no harm in continuing to kick the can down the road IMO
15:08:37 <zbyszek> Re 1866896: I think it needs to be dropped. There has been no activity since F33.
15:08:57 <decathorpe> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/redhat-rpm-config/pull-request/109#comment-63117 looks like no redhat-rpm-config person approved at the PR.
15:09:33 <decathorpe> it was otherwise adapted to what FESCo approved, from nim's comments.
15:09:52 <bcotton> the other two that are questionable are the ibus changes, just because it seems like landing them late could be a problem for QA and people who use internationalized environments
15:09:54 <nirik> For X, looks like reviews are pending for a lot of those things, but not done. ;( So, might need to push to f35? or... get some group to review them asap.
15:10:48 <zbyszek> nirik: I'd be happy to do reviews. But all depends-on are marked as done. Do you have a list?
15:11:04 <nirik> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?component=Package%20Review&email1=ajax%40redhat.com&emailreporter1=1&emailtype1=substring&list_id=11712217&query_format=advanced and look at the last bunch?
15:11:22 <cverna> let's maybe go one change at a time, I am starting to get lost :P
15:12:12 <zbyszek> nirik: Oh, 56 reviews.
15:12:22 <decathorpe> nirik: I don't understand why ajax opened individual review requests here, there's an FPC exception request: https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/1018
15:13:04 <decathorpe> (which was technically approved, but apparently abandoned / forgotten)
15:13:09 <nirik> perhaps I am misunderstanding which are which?
15:14:19 <zbyszek> If the reviews were done, can we still have this for F34?
15:15:13 <nirik> if we can get all the process done... repos, import, builds, freeze exception for stable, etc...
15:15:17 <zbyszek> FWIW, I don't think the exception should be used. The reviews may be simple, but there's clearly bugs to be fixed.
15:15:51 <dcantrell> it might be helpful to get clarification on this work from ajax in either a ticket or in a fesco meeting
15:16:42 <bcotton> seems like it might be better to do it in rawhide for f35 at this point. it doesn't seem like there's a pressing need for it, so better to avoid the rush
15:17:03 <dcantrell> bcotton++
15:17:06 <cverna> yeah I agree with Ben
15:17:58 <cverna> but we should probably raise visibility for the reviews to happen otherwise we might be in the same situation for f35
15:18:36 <dcantrell> yeah, that's a good idea
15:18:39 <mhroncok> ack for deferring
15:19:32 <zbyszek> I think we should ask ajax if he still wants this for F34.
15:20:00 * nirik nods.
15:21:27 <zbyszek> Next ticket?
15:21:38 <bcotton> i'd argue the time for that has passed. there have been general and specific reminders in the last month. beginning to implement changes after the beta freeze starts is not a great approach
15:22:17 <zbyszek> bcotton: in general I'd agree, but it's just moving stuff around from one package to another...
15:22:45 <cverna> yeah it feels too late for f34
15:24:38 <bcotton_> my matrix connection to irc was lost, so i missed anything after "yeah it feels too late for f34"
15:24:50 <nirik> there wasn't anything after that.
15:24:56 <bcotton_> yay
15:24:57 <zbyszek> Oh, none of the reviews for the split are done. Sorry, I thought the whole list that nirik pasted is about the split, and it has ~30 closed ones.
15:25:09 <dcantrell> fwiw, I just spoke with ajax and he would like to get this done for F34, since it is simple and that leads in to EL9.  I will help out with those reviews
15:25:18 <nirik> I'm fine defering, but I have no idea how urgent this is.
15:26:10 <nirik> ok, there you go.
15:26:10 <mhroncok> urgent things should be done in time
15:26:43 <mhroncok> that sounds needlessly aggressive... sorry
15:26:58 <bcotton> i'd be okay with giving him until the beta release to get it done since it's relatively straightforward (we hope), but if it's not done by then, it gets deferred
15:27:08 <zbyszek> bcotton: +1
15:27:14 <mhroncok> what I wanted to say si that "being urgent" is not a good reason to do things after beta freeze
15:27:15 <dcantrell> yeah, I think that's fair
15:27:20 <cverna> works for me +1
15:27:25 <bcotton> i do agree with mhroncok though
15:28:03 <nirik> sure. it will need a freeze break to get into the freeze... but I guess we can address that when/if they are all in an update and ready to go.
15:28:30 <zbyszek> nirik: maybe don't do a freeze exception and push it out after the freeze?
15:28:34 <zbyszek> > Note that this review is also switching to an actually active upstream.
15:28:45 <zbyszek> ^this makes me want to have it in F34
15:28:59 <nirik> well, we could do that, but... then none of the beta testing will test it.
15:29:29 <decathorpe> who still uses Xorg anyway ;)
15:29:44 <zbyszek> nirik: you have a point.
15:30:08 <zbyszek> I think we could have the discussion about freeze exception if it's done in time.
15:30:19 <cverna> +1
15:30:42 <cverna> any other changes that needs to be discussed ?
15:31:13 <bcotton> so what's  the decision. are we setting Beta release as the deadline? or will it be allowed after beta?
15:31:40 <cverna> Beta release as the deadline
15:31:45 <bcotton> ack
15:31:47 <zbyszek> Yep.
15:31:55 <nirik> but thats kinda potentially crummy.
15:32:30 <nirik> flurry of work, get it done and built, beta comes and it's not in... you what, just never ship those packages?
15:32:40 <nirik> but I guess lets try and avoid that
15:32:56 <decathorpe> well they'd land in rawhide / f35 regardless.
15:33:20 <zbyszek> nirik: I think those changes should NOT land in F34, until they are all done.
15:34:04 <zbyszek> I.e. I'd set the deadline for beta, with the requirement that all packages need to be done in rawhide by that time, and can then be built for F34 together.
15:34:04 <nirik> ok. just make that clear to ajax. ;)
15:34:29 <dcantrell> I can do that
15:34:42 <cverna> thanks dcantrell
15:35:03 <bcotton> Did we come to a decision on "Patches in Forge macros - Auto macros"?
15:35:16 <zbyszek> Wait, wait. Are we done with the x stuff?
15:35:24 <bcotton> i thought so :-)
15:35:45 <zbyszek> OK, sorry.
15:35:53 <King_InuYasha> I think that's just not happening :(
15:35:56 <King_InuYasha> nim hasn't been around
15:36:15 <bcotton> yeah, the question is do we drop it or defer it?
15:36:23 <zbyszek> I think this needs to be pushed down the road to F35.
15:36:34 <nirik> defer to f35 I'd say...
15:36:49 <bcotton> it's not immediately clear to me if it conflicts with pingou's new proposal
15:36:59 <decathorpe> eclipseo wanted to have this in F34 for RHEL 9 though, because it will support new Go tooling
15:37:16 <decathorpe> bcotton: the detached changelog stuff has been dropped from the redhat-rpm-config PR.
15:38:20 <zbyszek> Yeah, but that PR has not been reviewed (not discussing the reasons, just stating the state.)
15:39:12 <mhroncok> speculation: nobody who maintains redhat-rpm-config wants to touch this
15:39:20 <mhroncok> neither to maintain it in RHEL :/
15:39:37 <decathorpe> mhroncok: that sounds like a good guess ;)
15:39:38 <bcotton> and considering one of the commits in the PR is self-described as a "Major rework", it doesn't seem like something to push through last minute
15:39:46 <mhroncok> it would have been so much easier to maintain this externally and only require forge-srpm-macros
15:40:24 <mhroncok> (it would have been as much dangerous as now, but at least there will be no roadblocks)
15:40:35 <mhroncok> and rhel could drop that requirement, like they want with other srpm macros
15:41:01 <mhroncok> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/redhat-rpm-config/pull-request/118
15:42:20 <nirik> so where does that leave us here? :)
15:42:55 <cverna> I guess we defer it, but if the maintainer don't want that change they should at least review the PR and say why they are not interested in it
15:43:05 <cverna> ignoring the PR is not very cool
15:43:36 <mhroncok> yet it is very common
15:43:51 <decathorpe> An alternative solution would be to move the forge macros into a separate package, where they can be updated without redhat-rpm-config maintainers approval?
15:44:11 <zbyszek> decathorpe: yeah, but I think it's up to the Change owner.
15:44:52 <mhroncok> decathorpe: I like that solution, but maybe nim is not around any more
15:45:16 <decathorpe> eclipseo does seem to rely in this tooling and he handles most Go stuff now, maybe he can take over.
15:45:18 <King_InuYasha> this is probably something we should ask the Go SIG about
15:45:23 <King_InuYasha> yeah
15:47:09 <decathorpe> bonus points for a separate package: source code can be maintained outside of a single dist-git repo ;)
15:47:28 <mhroncok> action items?
15:47:38 <mhroncok> usual bcotton? :D
15:47:46 <cverna> lol
15:48:12 <bcotton> mhroncok++
15:48:51 <mhroncok> #action bcotton to talk to eclipseo and go sig about splitting the forge macros into a separate package
15:49:15 <zbyszek> Ack.
15:49:34 <cverna> Ben Cotton++ thanks
15:49:48 <bcotton> should we go ahead and  change the change owner to eclipseo?
15:50:01 <zbyszek> -1
15:50:05 <mhroncok> -1
15:50:08 <mhroncok> talk to them first
15:50:09 <bcotton> ok
15:50:32 <bcotton> sorry, i meant as part of that "talking to them", not "surprise this is yours now!" :-)
15:50:46 <mhroncok> bcotton: sure, fi they are in and nim is indeed awol
15:50:51 <mhroncok> *if
15:51:13 <cverna> ok moving on to next change ?
15:51:21 <mhroncok> ack
15:52:01 <bcotton> so the other ones that i have concerns about are the ibus changes, which are at least partially done. I think we can wait a few more days for the owner to respond to the NEEDINFO and evaluate at next week's meeting?
15:52:11 <nirik> +1
15:52:25 <decathorpe> +1
15:52:37 <cverna> +1
15:53:07 <zbyszek> bcotton: ack. I updated the status now: ibus-m17n seems to be done. ibus-unikey not. So I think we should either have it as a freeze exception so that it gets tested as part of beta, or it needs to be deferred.
15:53:24 <bcotton> zbyszek++ thanks!
15:53:51 <zbyszek> +1 to reevaluate next week.
15:54:01 <cverna> ok next topic was a ticket from sgallagh but since he is not there we might want to move that to next week too
15:54:19 <cverna> .fesco 2578
15:54:21 <zodbot> cverna: Issue #2578: Preset Request: google-guest-agent.service google-startup-scripts.service google-shutdown-scripts.service - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2578
15:54:22 <zbyszek> What about 'Rename libusb packages and deprecate old API' ?
15:54:59 <cverna> oh yeas sorry, should have checked that Ben Cotton was done
15:55:50 <bcotton> libusb one is waiting for clarification from the change owner. it's partly done, but it's not clear if it's done enough for f34 with some cleanup in 35 or if the whole thing should be pushed
15:56:11 <zbyszek> OK. I think we can leave it for later.
15:56:29 <bcotton> i've asked benzea for clarification, so we can come to it next week
15:57:46 <cverna> ok are we done on that topic for this week ?
15:57:58 <bcotton> as far as i'm concerned :-)
15:58:00 <zbyszek> I think so.
15:58:03 <sgallagh> I'm here noqw
15:58:16 <cverna> hey :) sgallagh o/
15:58:16 <dcantrell> sgallagh: clock drift?
15:58:26 <sgallagh> dcantrell: Was in a meeting, just got out
15:58:45 <cverna> #topic  #2578: Preset Request: google-guest-agent.service google-startup-scripts.service google-shutdown-scripts.service
15:58:51 <cverna> .fesco 2578
15:58:53 <zodbot> cverna: Issue #2578: Preset Request: google-guest-agent.service google-startup-scripts.service google-shutdown-scripts.service - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2578
15:59:15 <cverna> I added this one to the meeting since it did not have much activity in the ticket
15:59:19 <sgallagh> As I noted in my last comment, I think we can go ahead and approve this. It just couldn't be auto-approved by policy.
15:59:38 <zbyszek> +1 to approve
15:59:44 <decathorpe> from the BZ: services keep running even if they don't do anything. is this OK?
16:00:06 <decathorpe> I thought our requirement for that stuff is for it to gracefully exit.
16:00:15 <zbyszek> decathorpe: I think so. The package has a clear name, you install it if you want it.
16:01:17 <decathorpe> that was not clear to me. but if it's not going to be installed by default, fine by me
16:01:26 <nirik> sure, +1
16:01:29 <sgallagh> Yeah, it's not planned to be installed by default
16:01:32 <cverna> +1
16:01:56 <decathorpe> then +1. thanks for the clarification
16:02:36 <sgallagh> Assuming approval, I'll take care of the necessary fedora-release changes.
16:02:42 <cverna> I got +5 so far
16:03:09 <cverna> dcantrell: mhroncok King_InuYasha would you like to vote ?
16:03:15 <dcantrell> +1
16:05:27 <King_InuYasha> +1
16:05:41 <cverna> #approved systemd preset request for google-guest-agent.service google-startup-scripts.service google-shutdown-scripts.service was approved  (+7, 0, 0)
16:06:03 <mhroncok> cverna: no, sorry
16:06:28 <cverna> #agree systemd preset request for google-guest-agent.service google-startup-scripts.service google-shutdown-scripts.service was approved  (+7, 0, 0)
16:06:33 <cverna> mhroncok:  ack :)
16:06:41 * mhroncok procrastinated that one
16:06:47 <cverna> #topic Next week's chair
16:07:07 <cverna> anyone willing to chair next week's meeting ?
16:07:35 <mhroncok> I'll most likely miss it
16:07:40 <zbyszek> cverna: I can do it.
16:07:48 <cverna> zbyszek++ thanks
16:07:48 <zodbot> cverna: Karma for zbyszek changed to 12 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:07:59 <cverna> #action zbyszek to chair next week's meeting
16:08:15 <cverna> #topic Open Floor
16:08:26 <cverna> The floor is opening
16:08:35 <bcotton> o/
16:08:46 <zbyszek> o/
16:08:48 <mhroncok> we are falling down to the basement
16:09:05 <mhroncok> OOOOooooo....
16:09:07 <cverna> :D
16:09:47 <zbyszek> bcotton: go. I think cverna missed your hand.
16:10:10 <cverna> ah yeah sorry
16:10:19 <cverna> Ben Cotton: the floor is yours
16:11:13 <bcotton> i was going to add a couple of "make ben's life easier templates" to the ticket queue: a change proposal template and a late changes template. just wanted to give folks a heads up and give a chance to object
16:11:47 <zbyszek> Noooo. Life should be hard. We should all suffer.
16:12:03 * zbyszek is done objecting.
16:12:10 <sgallagh> Especially bcotton
16:12:25 <bcotton> i have certainly earned it ;-)
16:12:52 <mhroncok> :D
16:12:54 <bcotton> okay, that's it from me
16:13:06 <zbyszek> I'll go.
16:13:12 <zbyszek> .fesco 2583
16:13:13 <zodbot> zbyszek: Issue #2583: Request for a mini mass rebuild to update systemd scriptlets in packages - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2583
16:13:30 <zbyszek> If nobody objects, I'd start with rawhide tomorrowish.
16:13:38 <sgallagh> +1
16:13:40 <King_InuYasha> sounds good to me
16:13:41 <King_InuYasha> +1
16:13:53 <cverna> +1
16:14:12 <zbyszek> So... can we close the ticket as accepted? I think the vote is at +6 now.
16:14:49 <cverna> I think so
16:15:10 <cverna> I can do it after the meeting
16:15:14 <zbyszek> OK, so that's all from my side.
16:15:39 <cverna> anything else before I start closing the floor ?
16:15:55 <mhroncok> cverna: let us out of the basement before you close it!
16:15:57 <zbyszek> #info The voting season is open on https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/34/beta/buglist.
16:16:17 <cverna> mhroncok: maybe, or maybe not :D
16:16:18 * sgallagh starts calling C-3PO and R2-D2 to stop the mechanism
16:16:37 <cverna> sgallagh: that is cheating
16:17:02 <sgallagh> ... your point being?
16:17:58 <cverna> That it is against the FESCo open floor policy, you should open a PR if you want to make amend it
16:18:21 <cverna> ok thanks everyone for joining
16:18:35 <dcantrell> thanks, cverna
16:18:37 <cverna> have a great end of the day and end of week
16:18:39 <zbyszek> thanks cverna
16:18:45 <sgallagh> cverna++
16:18:45 <zodbot> sgallagh: Karma for cverna changed to 10 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:18:49 <cverna> #endmeeting