15:02:38 <zbyszek> #startmeeting FESCO (2021-03-10)
15:02:38 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 10 15:02:38 2021 UTC.
15:02:38 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:02:38 <zodbot> The chair is zbyszek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:02:38 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:02:38 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2021-03-10)'
15:02:38 <zbyszek> #meetingname fesco
15:02:38 <zbyszek> #chair nirik, ignatenkobrain, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, cverna, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor
15:02:38 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
15:02:38 <zodbot> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku cverna dcantrell decathorpe ignatenkobrain mhroncok nirik sgallagh zbyszek
15:02:41 <zbyszek> #topic init process
15:02:50 <bcotton> .hello2
15:02:51 <nirik> morning everyone
15:02:51 <Eighth_Doctor> 👋
15:02:51 <dcantrell> .hello2
15:02:53 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
15:02:53 <zbyszek> Sorry for the late start.
15:02:54 <Eighth_Doctor> .hello ngompa
15:02:55 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
15:02:58 <zodbot> Eighth_Doctor: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
15:03:16 <mhroncok> .hello churchyard
15:03:17 <zodbot> mhroncok: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' <mhroncok@redhat.com>
15:03:23 <cverna> I am in a conflicting meeting but I ll try to follow
15:03:26 <sgallagh> I have a conflict, but I'm sufficiently around to vote if needed.
15:04:05 <mhroncok> zbyszek: JFYI I have an open floor topic
15:04:20 <zbyszek> We have two items first.
15:04:27 <zbyszek> #topic #2584 Fedora 34 incomplete changes: 100% complete dealine
15:04:31 <zbyszek> .fesco 2584
15:04:32 <zodbot> zbyszek: Issue #2584: Fedora 34 incomplete changes: 100% complete dealine - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2584
15:05:00 <zbyszek> bcotton, since you're here...
15:05:01 <nirik> looks like only one left
15:05:11 <nirik> X.org Utility Deaggregation
15:05:16 <bcotton> ohai
15:05:20 <zbyszek> FWIW, it's mostly done.
15:05:32 <zbyszek> All the packages have been reviewed and imported.
15:05:35 <nirik> yep.
15:05:52 <nirik> did cause some rawhide compose breakage, but that was easy enough to fix.
15:05:56 <bcotton> so the only one left is the Xorg one as noted. On a previous episode of FESCo, it was given a deadline of the Beta release. As of this moment, that's quite possibly tuesday
15:06:16 <zbyszek> nirik: can we mark it as done?
15:06:18 <bcotton> but as zbyszek said, it's mostly done at this point
15:06:37 <dcantrell> I was going to doublecheck with ajax today and make sure it will be done in time.  I can update the fesco ticket
15:06:42 <mhroncok> zbyszek: is there a pending update?
15:06:55 <mhroncok> *update(s)
15:07:20 <nirik> I'm not 100% sure, we should check with the people actually doing the work. ;)
15:07:25 <nirik> I think it is, but...
15:07:30 <zbyszek> #action dcantrell to doublecheck the status of X.org Utility Deaggregation and update the ticket
15:07:33 <mhroncok> is there an FE request?
15:07:51 <zbyszek> Oh, right, we need a FE.
15:07:51 <mhroncok> no FE == not making it to the deadline, no?
15:08:17 <bcotton> there isn't, but i think it's okay to land in updates day-of
15:08:17 <nirik> well... I thought we were saying it was ok to not be in the beta but ok if it landed after
15:08:18 <sgallagh> At this point, FE is unlikely to land
15:08:37 <mhroncok> I thought we wanted this in beta or in f35
15:08:49 <mhroncok> if it cannot reach beta, what is the point of having the beta as the deadline?
15:09:20 * mhroncok brb
15:09:31 <Eighth_Doctor> well, there would be no point then
15:09:31 <zbyszek> Does anyone remember what was the exact text we approved?
15:09:34 <nirik> to have the wortk done in time for testing with the beta? it would be in the first updates
15:12:22 <zbyszek> >  I.e. I'd set the deadline for beta, with the requirement that all packages need to be done in rawhide by that time, and can then be built for F34 together.
15:12:23 <Eighth_Doctor> having things in the beta is important because that's the real first testing milestone
15:12:30 <zbyszek> > ok. just make that clear to ajax. ;)
15:12:45 <zbyszek> So I think we didn't specify that this has to be in stable.
15:12:56 <zbyszek> #info https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2021-02-24/fesco.2021-02-24-15.00.log.html
15:13:08 <zbyszek> I agree with nirik, that it's fine to have this in updates post beta.
15:14:06 <zbyszek> Eighth_Doctor, mhroncok: do we need to discuss this further?
15:14:20 <mhroncok> is this installed on the media?
15:14:27 <Eighth_Doctor> meh, for something where there's no code change, I guess it's fine
15:14:34 <Eighth_Doctor> but yeah, it's all installed on the media, so...
15:14:41 <mhroncok> if so, my take is that if this is not done in beta media, any 0day updates won't test this
15:15:03 <nirik> there's some bits of it installed on the media (two of the packages)
15:15:26 <mhroncok> I'd say this goes against our updates policy to ship after beta
15:15:30 <zbyszek> mhroncok: but it'll be tested by all the people who are already running branched and simply upgrade.
15:15:40 <mhroncok> zbyszek: yes, but not media
15:15:42 <nirik> and all the people who install beta and upgrade
15:15:47 <mhroncok> I'd really deleaget the call to qa
15:15:59 <mhroncok> IMHO, deadlines exist for reasons
15:16:46 <zbyszek> mhroncok: Normally package splits & merges are allowed at any time. This one is only special because of its scale. I think it's fine to push it in updates.
15:16:47 <mhroncok> OTOH it is not like people won't put weirder stuff into f34 after beta
15:16:51 <nirik> In this case I don't think it's a big deal...
15:17:07 <mhroncok> so I won't block this activelly, but FTR I don't approve
15:17:53 <zbyszek> Ack.
15:18:05 <zbyszek> Next topic.
15:18:11 <zbyszek> #2582 F35 Change: rpmautospec - removing release and changelog fields from spec files
15:18:15 <zbyszek> .fesco 2582
15:18:16 <zodbot> zbyszek: Issue #2582: F35 Change: rpmautospec - removing release and changelog fields from spec files - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2582
15:18:28 <mhroncok> pingou is pingout
15:18:56 <mhroncok> nphilipp does not seem to be here either
15:18:56 <nirik> Do we have questions? he should be back next week I think...
15:19:14 <mhroncok> "But I would love to hear from the change owners if this is negotiable or not."
15:19:19 <Eighth_Doctor> We can wait until next week if they're not here right now
15:19:44 <zbyszek> I'd be fine with that.
15:20:48 <zbyszek> So... continue the discussion in the ticket, revisit next week?
15:20:54 <mhroncok> ak
15:20:56 <mhroncok> ack
15:21:09 <Eighth_Doctor> sounds good to me
15:21:27 <zbyszek> #topic Next week's chair
15:21:37 <mhroncok> I can do it if there's a backup again
15:21:45 <zbyszek> I'm on PTO next week, so I can't promise anything.
15:21:47 <nirik> we should make sure to invite them next week if we want to make sure they are here. ;)
15:21:55 * mhroncok is still in middle of moving and won't be 100% reachable until april
15:22:26 * bcotton can chair if no FESCo members are available to do it
15:22:30 <mhroncok> nirik: it is completely fine to discuss this async, I was just trying if they are here
15:22:44 <mhroncok> bcotton: will you be my backup?
15:23:29 <bcotton> mhroncok: gladly
15:23:30 <mhroncok> #info mhroncok will chair next meeting, bcotton as backup
15:23:40 <zbyszek> Thank you both.
15:23:44 <zbyszek> #topic Open Floor
15:23:47 <mhroncok> me!
15:23:48 <zbyszek> mhroncok: go
15:23:50 <mhroncok> DST
15:24:12 <nirik> ick
15:24:13 <mhroncok> I propose we move the meeting 1 hour earlier to be "the same" for countries with DST
15:24:23 <mhroncok> the question is: when
15:25:04 <mhroncok> next two weeks have time anomalies
15:25:05 <zbyszek> I'm fine either way.
15:25:22 <dcantrell> US DST change this year is Sunday 14-Mar.  It's messed up every year and meetings in March always suck
15:26:09 <zbyszek> Maybe let's everyone state their preference (or lack thereof)
15:26:20 <zbyszek> me: don't care
15:26:22 <mhroncok> proposal 1: we change the meeting start -1 hour when US changes DST, hence the next two meetings will be off-by-one for EU folks
15:27:12 <dcantrell> I'm fine with proposal 1
15:27:26 * nirik can adapt to whatever, proposal 1 seems fine
15:28:16 <mhroncok> anybody who has a problem with that?
15:28:57 <mhroncok> decathorpe seems to have conflicts now anyway
15:29:07 <mhroncok> ignatenkobrain hasn't been on a meeting for a while
15:29:14 <mhroncok> zbyszek and me are fine either way
15:29:25 <mhroncok> and I suspect cverna has work meetings scheduled on US time
15:29:40 <mhroncok> the rest is US based
15:29:41 <nirik> we could try and find another slot... but last time we did it didn't find much
15:29:42 <cverna> let me read back
15:29:51 <mhroncok> cverna: we change the meeting start -1 hour when US changes DST, hence the next two meetings will be off-by-one for EU folks
15:30:17 <cverna> yeah that would work for me
15:30:23 <mhroncok> (as a side not, who can update the fedocal invite?)
15:30:28 <mhroncok> *side note
15:30:37 <zbyszek> #info Meetings will be held at 14:00 UTC since next week.
15:30:47 <mhroncok> #action mhroncok to update wiki
15:31:02 <zbyszek> Anything else for open floor?
15:31:09 <mhroncok> action somebody to update fedocal
15:31:16 * mhroncok doesn't knwo how
15:31:38 <nirik> I just set it to allow anyone in 'fesco' group
15:31:52 <mhroncok> #action mhroncok to update fedocal
15:31:55 <mhroncok> nirik++
15:32:12 <bcotton> nirik: you can set group permissions on fedocal?
15:32:28 <decathorpe> hey, looks like I missed all the fun
15:32:30 <nirik> bcotton: yep.
15:32:43 <nirik> admin group and editor group
15:32:48 <nirik> for each calendar
15:33:40 <zbyszek> If nothign else, I'll close the meeting in a minute
15:33:46 <decathorpe> since we're already talking about meeting slots: the current one is now ~impossible for me (until July), so if we're already talking about changing it ...
15:33:49 <bcotton> neat. i've only ever seen giving people access to specific events.
15:34:26 <zbyszek> decathorpe: if you want, we could go through another round of whenisgood voting.
15:35:02 <decathorpe> that would help, yeah :(
15:35:11 <zbyszek> Will you start the poll?
15:35:35 <decathorpe> I'd rather have somebody who knows how whenisgood works set it up, I always seem to set some wrong options
15:36:07 <zbyszek> #action zbyszek to start a new whenisgood poll
15:36:20 <decathorpe> thanks!
15:36:38 <zbyszek> My understanding is that we'll do the poll, and if a better slot turns up, we can move the meeting. But for the next week, nothing changes.
15:36:45 <zbyszek> Anything else?
15:36:57 <decathorpe> sounds good!
15:37:24 <zbyszek> So... see you next week!
15:37:24 <zbyszek> #endmeeting