19:00:36 #startmeeting FESCo (2021-07-19) 19:00:36 Meeting started Mon Jul 19 19:00:36 2021 UTC. 19:00:36 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 19:00:36 The chair is decathorpe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:36 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:36 The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2021-07-19)' 19:00:41 #meetingname fesco 19:00:41 The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 19:00:46 .helo2 19:00:57 #chair nirik, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, defolos, mboddu, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor 19:00:57 Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku dcantrell decathorpe defolos mboddu mhroncok nirik sgallagh zbyszek 19:01:04 .hello2 19:01:05 defolos: defolos 'Dan Čermák' 19:01:06 hello defolos o/ 19:01:13 .hello churchyard 19:01:13 mhroncok: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' 19:01:16 Hi Fabio Valentini (decathorpe) 19:01:17 .hello2 19:01:18 zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' 19:01:40 .hello mohanboddu 19:01:41 #topic Init Process 19:01:41 mboddu: mohanboddu 'Mohan Boddu' 19:01:57 Sorry for the absence last week. I somehow managed to forget about the meeting after sending the agenda. 19:02:11 .hello churchyard 19:02:12 mhroncok: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' 19:02:28 Sorry for my absence as well, I was on vacation 19:02:46 (I might miss next week as well, I'll be away again) 19:03:20 defolos: then you probably shouldn't volunteer for running next week's meeting, eh? 19:03:23 right 19:04:13 technically we're already at quorum, but I'm going to give the others until :05 19:05:22 alright ... 19:05:30 #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/RRV4E5P3QRBCJ7LZMUB73YW22E5SVSAE/ Schedule 19:05:43 Are our invited guests here? 19:06:00 #topic #2648 F35 Change: GHC 8.10 and Stackage lts-18 19:06:05 .fesco 2648 19:06:06 decathorpe: Issue #2648: F35 Change: GHC 8.10 and Stackage lts-18 - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2648 19:06:24 .fasinfo petersen 19:06:25 decathorpe: User: petersen, Name: Jens Petersen, email: petersen@redhat.com, Creation: 2005-04-13, IRC Nick: petersen, Timezone: Asia/Singapore, Locale: en, GPG key ID: EF27EDD1, Status: active 19:06:28 decathorpe: Approved Groups: @gitliberation-fonts cvsredhat-config-language cla_done fedorabugs cvsfedora +packager sysadmin @cvslohit-fonts @haskell-lang-sig cla_redhat cla_fedora @giti18n gitspin-kickstarts @gitcabal2spec provenpackager sysadmin-web @githaskell-sig proventesters @gityum-langpacks qa @haskell 19:06:58 probably not, looks like it's night already for Jens 19:08:14 he also didn't file a vacation on fedocal 19:08:27 but I'm not sure if people actually do that a lot 19:09:04 How many packages are we talking about here? I guess they can be rebuilt in a side tag… 19:09:05 ghc has been updated to 8.10, so next mass rebuild on this wed should pick it up 19:09:30 nvm, they are built in side tag 19:09:32 oh well, so they already did it? 19:10:04 ah ok 19:10:05 I don't think so. 19:10:18 So, 8.10 is being built in side tag. Not sure how stable it is to merge into f35 19:10:46 the timing is pretty unfortunate given the mass rebuild 19:10:51 Build Target: f35-build-side-43587 19:11:18 so ... proposal: Ask change owners to come up with a proposal for building stuff after the mass rebuild, and to coordinate with releng ? 19:11:50 decathorpe: sounds reasonable 19:11:52 +1 19:11:58 sounds good to me 19:12:05 note that releng would need to exclude ghc from the mass rebuild 19:12:12 because the git content is 8.10 19:12:29 yeah. that's why I included "coordinate with releng" :) 19:13:12 mboddu you're involved with releng, right? 19:13:17 I am confortable with either option, before or after the mass rebuild 19:13:44 defolos: Yes, we can exclude it as part of mass rebuild, unless petersen says otherwise 19:14:03 then that sounds like the best way forward 19:14:10 (to me) 19:14:14 .hello ngompa 19:14:15 Eighth_Doctor: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' 19:14:33 👋 19:14:33 yeah. pushing back the mass rebuild and rushing in all ghc builds before that sounds stressful for little gain 19:14:38 * mboddu bbiab 19:14:39 hey Neal 19:15:13 consider me +1 as well 19:15:24 * Eighth_Doctor is getting a sandwich 19:15:35 +1 19:15:40 * defolos requests a sandwich as well 19:16:05 sudo get me a sandwich ? 19:16:20 heh 19:17:37 #info Ask Change owner(s) to adapt, if possible, to building after the F35 Mass rebuild, and to coordinate with releng (+6, 0, -0) 19:18:23 there have been no votes on the change proposal itself other than the temporary -1. should we wait with the final approval until the Change is amended? 19:18:49 I'm +1 for approving the Change with the #info above. 19:19:00 yes 19:19:09 +1 to approve with the above info 19:19:48 works for me. 19:20:06 I'm for aproving it after we have a decision from releng & the change owners 19:21:09 defolos: this will introduce a delay, and petersen is actively working on the change. I don't see any scenario where we would say "no, let's wait for F36 with this". 19:21:11 * decathorpe sighs 19:21:35 * zbyszek asks decathorpe to explain 19:21:50 zbyszek: and even if they decide to do that, they can 19:21:52 zbyszek: I think the only way to get it postponed is if it's impossible to build after the mass rebuild, which I don't think is the case 19:22:21 ok, then no objections to approving from my side 19:23:54 * mboddu is back, sorry for the delay 19:23:56 ok, so we are at: +1 to approve Change assuming aforementioned #info: defolos, zbyszek, mhroncok, decathorpe 19:24:26 mboddu, ngompa: do you want to vote as well? 19:25:14 decathorpe: Yeah, +1 to approve the change with the info mentioned 19:25:28 great 19:25:54 that must be a helluva sandwich Neal is fetching 19:26:25 * defolos wants now one even more 19:26:42 defolos, zbyszek: no sandwiches for you 😛 19:26:43 Neal wants everything on that sandwich but instead of saying "everything" he is mentioning each and every ingredient :P 19:26:50 +1 19:26:58 awesome 19:27:26 #agreed APPROVED assuming the #info item (+6, 0, -0) 19:27:47 #topic Next week's chair 19:28:04 ugh I think that didn't work ... undo undo undo 19:28:06 #undo 19:28:06 Removing item from minutes: 19:28:18 #agree APPROVED assuming the #info item (+6, 0, -0) 19:28:27 #topic Next week's chair 19:28:37 now it should be correct 19:28:43 I'd like to not chair, as I'll be traveling and might have a baaad internet connection 19:29:21 I can theoretically run the meeting again next week, but if there are other volunteers ... 19:29:29 I'm not sure about my schedule for next week, I might be on PTO actually. But I can chair if nobody else wants. 19:29:48 My Monday's (and Fri's) are iffy until the end of Aug 19:30:04 okay, then I'll do it 19:30:13 #action decathorpe to chair next week's meeting 19:30:20 #topic Open Floor 19:30:53 Can anyone give a tl;dr; about the thread on devel about guile + make? 19:31:06 I haven't managed to catch up on that one yet 19:31:10 * decathorpe sighs 19:31:40 Fabio Valentini (decathorpe) nevermind if it's mostly drama 19:31:44 as far as I understand, the rejection by FESCo was interpreted as "you have to keep maintaining this", instead of "give us a better reason to approve this" 19:32:02 I see 19:32:22 Conan Kudo: is that a fair summary? 19:32:23 people are outraged by our ruling 19:32:27 yes 19:32:46 * Eighth_Doctor shrugs 19:32:55 * decathorpe looks for torches and pitchforks in the distance 19:32:56 it's the same thing that happened with IMA 19:33:07 nobody was able to justify it well enough 19:33:51 Was that this rpm signature thingy? 19:33:53 yes 19:34:23 right ... if people can only point to the bad side of things but can't talk about the benefits clearly, it's hard to make a balanced decision based on cost-benefit analysis 19:35:02 but oh well. torches and pitchforks it is 19:35:45 side note: there's another open fesco ticket, which I have not included in the meeting schedule because I think there's nothing to talk about 19:35:50 .fesco 2647 19:35:51 decathorpe: Issue #2647: F35 Change: tzdata-minimal - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2647 19:36:08 any objections to waiting for more info from the discussions with upstream? 19:36:16 nah, I'm good with that 19:36:18 +1 19:36:20 +1 19:36:51 great 19:36:58 yep, the discussion seems not done yet. 19:36:58 any comments on my poposal here? https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2646#comment-743791 19:37:47 decathorpe: I like it 19:38:01 Sounds good to me 19:38:16 quite simple and makes everyone's life better 19:38:37 I think those two are the only "easy" things we can do to streamline the process ... everything else involves automation or implementing new pagure features 19:38:43 decathorpe: the second part seems unnecessary. People are mentioned by @nick in the ticket description by the change wrangler, so they are already subscribed without any action. 19:38:47 decathorpe: +1 from me and easy to do and super useful 19:38:59 zbyszek: they're not, AFAIK 19:39:04 mentions do not subscribe 19:39:09 I don't think that you get subscribed by being mentioned 19:39:25 you only get that one comment notification 19:39:58 * mhroncok brainstorms: we could also mention them in the comment about the meeting, that does not sound that complicated 19:39:59 we'd need to add an API to allow Ben Cotton (he/him/his) to arbitrarily subscribe people 19:40:00 When mentioned, you only get that one email, but wont be subscribed 19:40:02 @-mentioning them in the "this is going to be discussed in the next meeting" comment should do it. 19:40:10 Oh, so should we simply mention the change owners by @nick ( 19:40:15 yes 19:40:16 ... what decathorpe said. 19:40:29 mentioning them in the comment should be enough 19:40:56 If we ask people to subscribe, this will work sometimes, and sometimes not. 19:40:58 assuming they don't filter out all the emails, that should work 19:41:09 but that won't make them get the whole discussion, which is why I would encourage change owners to additionally subscribe to tickets for their changes. 19:41:24 Its only encouragement, so its up to them 19:41:27 @-mentioning them should always work, so that's a safeguard. 19:41:29 yeah, I would encourage them to subscribe as well 19:41:48 but mentioning them is safer 19:41:59 well, we can continue bikeshedding in the ticket, that's not time sensitive 19:42:16 👍 19:42:17 :) 19:42:52 Doing both also seems fine. 19:43:04 better safe than sorry 19:43:23 well, that's all from my side. really open floor now :) 19:43:43 None from me 19:44:22 nothing from my side as well 19:44:36 except a reminder for nest ;-) 19:45:10 oh ... that reminds me. I might submit a proposal for a talk about modern Rust packaging and how nice it is now :D 19:45:40 please do so! 19:45:55 is submitting proposals still possible? 19:46:06 until the 23rd 19:46:09 CfP extended until July23 19:46:10 mhroncok: the deadline has been extended 19:46:16 Round 2 selection starts on: 16 July 2021 19:46:24 zbyszek: until? 19:46:27 s/starts/started/ 19:46:32 ;-) 19:47:49 * decathorpe going to close meeting at :50 if there's nothing else 19:47:54 mhroncok https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/AK42WP2CHGTXEIOZA6ILRO7ITXP4KYOX/ 19:48:34 defolos++ 19:48:39 defolos: thanks 19:49:17 Thanks decathorpe 19:49:23 decathorpe++ 19:49:40 Thanks Fabio Valentini (decathorpe) for running the metting 19:49:44 decathorpe++ 19:49:58 no mo cookies :( 19:50:01 decathorpe: thanks 19:50:05 thanks all for coming, see you next week 19:50:07 #endmeeting