17:01:36 <decathorpe> #startmeeting FESCo (2022-08-02)
17:01:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug  2 17:01:36 2022 UTC.
17:01:36 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:01:36 <zodbot> The chair is decathorpe. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
17:01:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:36 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2022-08-02)'
17:01:40 <decathorpe> #meetingname fesco
17:01:40 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
17:01:50 <decathorpe> #chair nirik, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, music, mhayden, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor
17:01:50 <zodbot> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku dcantrell decathorpe mhayden mhroncok music nirik sgallagh zbyszek
17:01:54 <dcantrell> .hello2
17:01:55 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
17:01:58 <nirik> morning all
17:01:59 <decathorpe> #topic Init process
17:02:01 <mhayden> .hello2
17:02:02 <zodbot> mhayden: mhayden 'Major Hayden' <mhayden@redhat.com>
17:02:04 <bcotton> .hello2
17:02:05 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
17:02:06 <sgallagh> .hi
17:02:06 <jonathanspw> .hello2
17:02:08 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
17:02:11 <zodbot> jonathanspw: jonathanspw 'Jonathan Wright' <jonathan@almalinux.org>
17:03:05 <decathorpe> hey all
17:03:26 <music[m]> .hello2
17:03:27 <zodbot> music[m]: Sorry, but user 'music [m]' does not exist
17:03:30 <davide> .hello dcavalca
17:03:31 <zodbot> davide: dcavalca 'Davide Cavalca' <dcavalca@fb.com>
17:04:23 <sgallagh> .hello music
17:04:24 <zodbot> sgallagh: music 'Benjamin Beasley' <code@musicinmybrain.net>
17:04:33 <music[m]> hello
17:05:12 <decathorpe> ok, 6 FESCo members are present, let's make this a short meeting
17:05:25 <decathorpe> #link Schedule https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/6VAM5N54Z4AJQ7XVYFSZZFC6QTG26P7H/
17:05:38 <salimma> .hello
17:05:38 <zodbot> salimma: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
17:06:13 <decathorpe> .fesco 2833
17:06:14 <zodbot> decathorpe: Issue #2833: Change: Officially Support Raspberry Pi 4 - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2833
17:06:23 <decathorpe> we apparently approved this during last week's meeting?
17:06:27 <nirik> yeah
17:06:34 <sgallagh> Yes
17:06:43 <sgallagh> I completely flaked and forgot to update the ticket appropriately.
17:06:48 <sgallagh> Sorry about that.
17:07:09 <decathorpe> no problem.
17:07:10 <decathorpe> just making sure
17:07:17 <decathorpe> I'll announce it when I send out the meeting minutes later today.
17:07:21 <mhayden> that was easy
17:07:45 <decathorpe> #topic #2842 Change: z13 as the Baseline for IBM Z Hardware
17:07:45 <nirik> too easy! :)
17:07:50 <decathorpe> .fesco 2842
17:07:51 <zodbot> decathorpe: Issue #2842: Change: z13 as the Baseline for IBM Z Hardware - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2842
17:08:23 <decathorpe> my -1 vote stands, so we need to talk about this, I guess
17:08:52 <mhroncok> hey§
17:08:55 <mhroncok> got distracted
17:08:57 <nirik> I'm +1 to either doing it now or doing it for f38+
17:08:58 <decathorpe> hey o/
17:09:00 <mhroncok> -1 for f37, +1 for f38
17:09:22 <mhayden> is this more of a "good idea, not good timing" problem?
17:09:32 <sgallagh> mhayden: Yes
17:09:45 <sgallagh> That's how I view it, anyway
17:09:57 * mhayden is reading some of the comments there
17:10:03 <decathorpe> yeah. in my opinion, it should have been a "System-Wide Change that needs to be applied before the Mass rebuild" kind of Change
17:10:09 <music[m]> I agree with the claim that the risk is likely low, but I also agree that a change to default compiler flags really ought to be included in the mass rebuild.
17:10:10 <mhayden> sharkcz did say "I won't disagree if the consensus will be to move the Change to F-38"
17:10:16 <decathorpe> not a late-submitted "Self-Contained Change"
17:10:29 <Eighth_Doctor> .hello ngompa
17:10:29 <music[m]> Yes, I was about to say, I’m also not sure a change to default compiler flags can really be considered self-contained.
17:10:29 <zodbot> Eighth_Doctor: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
17:10:44 <music[m]> I would 100% vote for the same change as a system-wide change for F38.
17:10:51 <Eighth_Doctor> I agree as well
17:11:20 <mhayden> +1 on F38 here, too
17:11:29 <decathorpe> ok, sounds like this is pretty clear-cut, so ...
17:11:44 <decathorpe> Vote no. 1: Proposal is rejected for F37
17:11:49 <decathorpe> +1
17:11:51 <sgallagh> 0
17:12:12 <salimma> .hi
17:12:13 <zodbot> salimma: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name>
17:12:17 <sgallagh> (As previously noted, we've been running an even-stricter set of flags in ELN for months)
17:12:31 <nirik> -1 (but fine to be overruled) (I think the risk is very low)
17:12:42 <mhayden> 0 on rejecting this for F37 (but totally +1 with F38)
17:13:30 <decathorpe> Conan Kudo, dcantrell, mhroncok: vote?
17:13:50 <dcantrell> +1 to reject for F37, +1 for F38
17:14:13 <music[m]> +1 on rejecting for F37. I think the risk is very low, but so is the benefit of rushing it in.
17:14:43 <mhroncok> +1 on rejecting for F37
17:15:05 <mhroncok> (note that I am not sure what happens if we dn'T a pprove to reject)
17:15:20 <decathorpe> poteto potato
17:15:28 <mhroncok> IMHO we should just vote for the change as is (whcih would probbaly fail)
17:15:45 <sgallagh> Yeah, probably would be better to invert the question, since the 0's have kind of the opposite meaning there
17:16:00 <decathorpe> I don't think it will make a difference.
17:16:13 <decathorpe> Conan Kudo: vote? regarding reject for F37
17:16:21 <Eighth_Doctor> +1 reject for F37
17:16:29 <decathorpe> thanks
17:16:52 <decathorpe> #agree REJECTED for F37 (+5, 2, -1)
17:17:47 <mhroncok> cool
17:17:50 <decathorpe> Vote no. 2: Same Change proposal, except resubmitted for F38 and recategorized as System Wide change.
17:17:58 <sgallagh> I thought I counted 9 votes...
17:18:17 <decathorpe> nope, zbyzsek is not here today, we are only 8
17:18:25 <sgallagh> ah, okay
17:18:38 <sgallagh> +1 on Vote 2
17:18:45 <decathorpe> +1
17:18:57 <nirik> +1
17:19:30 <dcantrell> +1
17:19:37 <mhayden> +1
17:19:51 <mhroncok> +1
17:19:59 <bcotton> hold on
17:20:09 <music[m]> Should we technically ask the change owner to populate the contingency plan if the change type will be adjusted?
17:20:29 <bcotton> are you asking the change owner to resubmit or just deciding to accept it as an F38 System-Wide Change
17:20:34 <bcotton> because if it's the former, you don't really need to vote on that
17:20:34 <mhroncok> holding on
17:20:46 <mhroncok> no, we just approving it for f38
17:20:50 <mhroncok> *we're
17:21:02 <bcotton> okay, that's what i thought. just wanted to make sure
17:21:03 <decathorpe> as stated, technically, conditional approval
17:21:21 <bcotton> the "resubmitted" threw me off
17:21:45 <decathorpe> edited s/37/38 and s/Self-Contained/System-Wide/
17:22:08 <decathorpe> I guess that doesn't count as "resubmitted" then
17:22:09 <decathorpe> :)
17:22:33 <sgallagh> Patch: Accepted as a System-Wide Change for Fedora 38
17:23:03 <decathorpe> that was my intention, yes. assuming the Change owner does want to do that.
17:23:30 <decathorpe> Conan Kudo music votes?
17:23:47 <Eighth_Doctor> +1
17:23:50 <Eighth_Doctor> to Stephen Gallagher ^
17:24:23 <sgallagh> To be clear, my patch is a rephrasing for clarity, not a new proposal
17:24:51 <music[m]> So is the idea that we are approving it as a system-wide change without the additional sections normally required for a system-wide change, https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/program_management/changes_policy/#_change_proposal_sections? I’m not too concerned about the details of those additional sections in practice, just trying to understand.
17:25:13 <decathorpe> Well, I think the contingency plan will need to be adjusted, given that it will be a System-Wide change
17:25:34 <decathorpe> And not having a plan in the first place for something that affects 99% of packages was a bad idea to begin with
17:28:39 <music[m]> Then shall we just recommend that the change owner should re-submit as a system-wide change for F38, and vote on it once that is completed?
17:28:58 <nirik> seems reasonable.
17:29:20 <mhroncok> I don't think it's neccessary
17:29:31 <decathorpe> I was trying to short-circuit that by making a conditional approval now, but if you are more comfortable with saying "please resubmit with these changes" and then vote *after* that's done, I'm fine with that too
17:29:48 <mhroncok> it's a technicality. the contingency plan is to revert the change if it causes too much damage -- and it won't
17:30:26 <music[m]> Hmm, I’m OK with short-circuiting, effectively with the additional sections “empty,” as long as we’re clear that’s what we are doing.
17:31:35 <music[m]> +1 for F38, then.
17:32:09 <decathorpe> ok, thanks
17:33:19 <decathorpe> #agree APPROVED under the condition that the Change proposal is re-targeted at Fedora 38 and classified as a System-Wide Change (+8, 0, -0)
17:33:57 <decathorpe> any objections to this statement before I clobber zodbot's "undo" functionality?
17:34:47 <mhroncok> ack
17:34:58 <music[m]> sounds good
17:35:03 <decathorpe> ok, thanks
17:35:12 <decathorpe> #topic Next week's chair
17:35:44 <decathorpe> Any volunteers?
17:35:53 <mhroncok> me
17:36:02 <mhroncok> as promised
17:36:06 <decathorpe> great, thanks
17:36:14 <decathorpe> #action mhroncok to chair next week's meeting
17:36:30 <decathorpe> #topic Open Floor
17:36:54 <sgallagh> Nothing from me
17:37:16 <decathorpe> anybody want to prepare something for FESCo panel later this week at Nest?
17:37:40 * nirik will be at the panel, but might have to leave part way thru...
17:37:41 <dcantrell> I will not be at the Nest panel because I will be on PTO
17:39:09 <decathorpe> #action zbyszek to prepare introductory remarks because he signed us up for it in the first place
17:39:59 <mhroncok> ok, gotta go
17:40:01 <mhroncok> see you next week
17:40:09 <decathorpe> see you o/
17:40:14 <mhroncok> Fabio Valentini++
17:40:38 <decathorpe> anything else for open floor?
17:41:01 <decathorpe> otherwise I will terminate(meeting) in a minute or two.
17:43:05 <decathorpe> music: you were typing?
17:43:20 <music[m]> Yes, but no. All good.
17:43:28 <decathorpe> ACK
17:43:49 <decathorpe> have some 15 minutes back, everyone :)
17:43:53 <decathorpe> #endmeeting