17:04:16 <zbyszek_> #startmeeting FESCO (2023-08-24)
17:04:16 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Aug 24 17:04:16 2023 UTC.
17:04:16 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:04:16 <zodbot> The chair is zbyszek_. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
17:04:16 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:04:16 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2023-08-24)'
17:04:16 <zbyszek_> #meetingname fesco
17:04:16 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
17:04:16 <zbyszek_> #chair nirik, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, mhayden, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor, tstellar
17:04:16 <zodbot> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku dcantrell decathorpe mhayden mhroncok nirik sgallagh tstellar zbyszek zbyszek_
17:04:19 <zbyszek_> #topic init process
17:04:21 <nirik> morning
17:04:26 <sgallagh> .hi
17:04:27 <zbyszek_> .hello zbyszek
17:04:27 <Son_Goku> .hello ngompa
17:04:28 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
17:04:31 <zodbot> zbyszek_: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@in.waw.pl>
17:04:35 <zodbot> Son_Goku: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
17:05:00 <decathorpe> .hi
17:05:01 <zodbot> decathorpe: decathorpe 'Fabio Valentini' <decathorpe@gmail.com>
17:05:05 <zbyszek_> We have quorum.
17:05:15 <zbyszek_> Let's roll.
17:05:18 <zbyszek_> #topic #3059 F39 incomplete changes: 100% complete deadline
17:05:18 <zbyszek_> .fesco 3059
17:05:19 <zodbot> zbyszek_: Issue #3059: F39 incomplete changes: 100% complete deadline - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3059
17:05:29 <zbyszek_> I'll go one by one.
17:05:38 <tstellar> .hello tstellar
17:05:39 <zodbot> tstellar: tstellar 'Tom Stellard' <tstellar@redhat.com>
17:05:42 <zbyszek_> #topic Anaconda WebUI for Fedora Workstation by default
17:05:56 <zbyszek_> I think the changes were pushed today and it's "all good".
17:06:28 <nirik> it's all in, not sure it's all good yet. ;)
17:06:44 <zbyszek_> Right. Anyway, any comments or should I move on?
17:06:47 <mhayden> .hello2
17:06:47 <zodbot> mhayden: mhayden 'Major Hayden' <mhayden@redhat.com>
17:07:23 <zbyszek_> #info Changes were pushed today. The Change is in progress.
17:07:30 <zbyszek_> #topic Build Fedora Workstation live ISO with Image Builder
17:07:40 <Son_Goku> this is still being worked out
17:07:53 <Son_Goku> but as it's non-blocking and additive, I wouldn't worry about it
17:08:01 <zbyszek_> Should be defer it, or? OK.
17:08:16 <nirik> yeah, it could land later... but not too late...
17:08:28 <Son_Goku> the important part is getting the Image Builder team exposed to the needs of the Fedora community to actually use the tooling
17:08:35 <zbyszek_> #info This is still being worked out, but it's non-blocking and additive.
17:08:42 <Son_Goku> there's going to be a lot of work ahead of them to bring it up to scratch
17:08:42 <zbyszek_> #topic Deprecating libuser and removing passwd package from Fedora
17:09:00 <Son_Goku> if this isn't done, it needs to be deferred
17:09:02 <Son_Goku> this is a big change
17:09:18 <nirik> yeah.
17:09:24 <decathorpe> doesn't look like anything happened here
17:09:26 <zbyszek_> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2233275#c1
17:09:26 <sgallagh> Agreed
17:09:34 <Son_Goku> I still don't know what kind of fallout we'll get from passwd implementations being swapped
17:09:50 <zbyszek_> proposal: Change is deferred to F40.
17:09:54 <Son_Goku> +1
17:10:01 <decathorpe> +1
17:10:06 <nirik> +1
17:10:15 <sgallagh> +1
17:10:44 <zbyszek_> tstellar?
17:10:51 <tstellar> +1
17:11:22 <zbyszek_> Did I forget anyone?
17:11:32 <Son_Goku> mhayden?
17:12:05 <mhayden> +1
17:12:10 <zbyszek_> #agreed Change is deferred to F40 (+7, 0, 0)
17:12:23 <zbyszek_> #topic Allow Removal of tzdata
17:13:14 <zbyszek_> > This does not seem to be complete. glibc has been changed, but gcc (libstdc++) has not.
17:14:04 <nirik> "Contingency deadline: Can be backed out at the last minute since we are only dealing with conversions from Requires to Recommends (so, Final freeze?)"
17:14:28 <nirik> I'm not sure I agree with that...
17:14:38 <zbyszek_> Yeah, I think we could let it be for now. It's a small change.
17:14:42 <nirik> but I guess thats how we approved it.
17:14:56 <nirik> yeah, lets give it a bit more time?
17:15:00 <Son_Goku> punt, sure
17:15:24 <zbyszek_> #info This isn't fully implemented yet, we'll revisit on the next meeting.
17:15:39 <mhayden> 👍
17:15:41 <zbyszek_> #topic LLVM 17
17:15:58 <nirik> There's an rc2 in a sidetag for rawhide as of today...
17:16:21 <tstellar> We decided to move to rc3, so we are building that now and planning to do a beta freeze exception.
17:16:30 <zbyszek_> Ack.
17:16:38 <Son_Goku> is there ANY RC in already?
17:16:54 <nirik> yeah, good luck. ;)
17:17:03 <Son_Goku> or beta or something llvm17?!
17:17:13 <Son_Goku> *-ish?
17:17:14 <tstellar> Son_Goku: No, we built rc1 into COPR only.
17:17:16 <decathorpe> LLVM release cycle sadly doesn't really lign up nicely with the Fedora release cycle :/
17:17:29 <zbyszek_> It misaligns ;)
17:17:49 <zbyszek_> Punt for now?
17:17:50 <decathorpe> as I recall, we've been having this same conversation for past beta releases too
17:17:55 <decathorpe> so yes, punt ...
17:18:14 <tstellar> Well, in past relases we were asking for final freeze exceptions, so this is hopefully an improvement.
17:18:14 <zbyszek_> #info Owners decided to move to rc3, and it's being built now.
17:18:22 <Son_Goku> indeed
17:18:27 <zbyszek_> #topic Flatpaks without Modules
17:18:42 <nirik> I think this is pretty much done... just a few small things being sorted.
17:18:54 <decathorpe> woop woop
17:19:21 <nirik> I am going to dance when I get to turn off our OSBS clusters. ;)
17:19:22 <mhayden> 👏
17:19:34 <zbyszek_> https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11626 seems to be the blocker.
17:19:59 <zbyszek_> #info This is pretty much done... just a few small things being sorted.
17:20:00 <nirik> I think those are just minor things we can fix.
17:20:12 <zbyszek_> #topic Make Toolbx a release-blocking deliverable and have release-blocking test criteria
17:20:52 <nirik> This is done except for a single PR to make it blocking in the compose config.
17:21:03 <Son_Goku> you could land that now if you wanted :)
17:21:17 <zbyszek_> #info This is done except for a single PR to make it blocking in the compose config.
17:21:34 <nirik> yeah. we don't have a really great process for changes there in freeze, but it seems reasonable to me to just land it.
17:21:37 <zbyszek_> nirik, Son_Goku: link?
17:21:56 <nirik> https://pagure.io/pungi-fedora/pull-request/1195
17:22:07 <nirik> I'll just merge it.
17:22:12 <Son_Goku> https://pagure.io/pungi-fedora/pull-request/1194
17:22:14 <zbyszek_> #info https://pagure.io/pungi-fedora/pull-request/1195 is about to be merged.
17:22:32 <zbyszek_> #info and also https://pagure.io/pungi-fedora/pull-request/1194.
17:22:39 <zbyszek_> OK, let's go to the next one.
17:22:45 <zbyszek_> #topic RPM 4.19
17:23:11 <Son_Goku> the beta landed a bit ago
17:23:20 <Son_Goku> they've been working through regressions and bugs
17:23:31 <Son_Goku> so this is probably "on track"
17:23:50 * nirik nods. yeah.
17:24:29 <zbyszek_> #info Beta was built 3 months ago. Bugs are being fixed and we're waiting for the final version. This is on track.
17:24:45 <zbyszek_> #topic Modernize Thread Building Blocks for Fedora 39
17:25:25 <zbyszek_> > This does not yet seem to be done. I don't see any 2021.8 build in Koji or Bodhi. The last status update I can find was https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/P44YQVEVWDDMYAUMQSA6NQQEVQRDAZ4G/ , from July 11 - the python rebuild situation has probably improved since then, but I can't see any further work on the Change.
17:25:32 <zbyszek_> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2175941#c1
17:25:51 <nirik> yeah, sounds like defer here... although I am not sure how bad it would be to land it later.
17:26:00 <Son_Goku> Let's give it a week and poke them
17:26:10 <Son_Goku> it's not super-core and the reverse dep tree is small
17:26:24 <nirik> yeah.
17:26:27 <zbyszek_> #info This seems stalled, but it would be OK to land late if the dependencies can be rebuilt. We'll revisit next week.
17:26:28 <nirik> punt to next week?
17:26:33 <Son_Goku> sounds good to me
17:26:42 <zbyszek_> #topic SPDX License Phase 2
17:27:30 <zbyszek_> Karolina Surma and others have been doing lots of PRs and merging them…
17:27:47 <nirik> yeah, this seems fine. Ongoing.
17:27:56 <Son_Goku> yeah and this is a neverending task anyway
17:28:00 <zbyszek_> Yeah.
17:28:05 <Son_Goku> and has no real impact on the release, so meh
17:28:10 <decathorpe> yup
17:28:19 <zbyszek_> #info This is a neverending task. The Change is in progress.
17:28:30 <sgallagh> ack
17:28:34 <zbyszek_> #topic LegacyXorgDriverRemoval
17:29:24 <decathorpe> this rings a bell. haven't we already deferred this from f38 to f39?
17:29:39 <zbyszek_> From 37 to 38, and then once more.
17:29:50 * decathorpe makes sad face
17:30:03 <nirik> yeah, looks like it's missing again. ;(
17:30:19 <zbyszek_> Somebody make a proposal.
17:30:25 <decathorpe> so, last time we had a candidate like this one, we said "resubmit once you're actually going to do it", right?
17:30:59 <Son_Goku> someone probably needs to remind ajax this exists
17:31:07 <Son_Goku> I wonder if he doesn't know it's shifted
17:31:23 <Son_Goku> the absolute _zero_ effort toward this makes me think that
17:31:24 <decathorpe> is ajax still around?
17:31:31 <Son_Goku> he's in Australian times
17:31:32 <smooge> i am in a meeting with him
17:31:41 <decathorpe> I see no dist-git activity since September of last year
17:31:41 <Son_Goku> well then
17:31:49 <smooge> ajax was in boston last I knew
17:32:00 <Son_Goku> huh, for some reason I thought he was Australian with the rest of the team
17:32:16 <zbyszek_> smooge: can you poke him to either defer or close the issue? If he's going to do it, that'd be great.
17:32:29 <Son_Goku> huh apparently he is in Boston
17:32:30 <Son_Goku> TIL
17:32:40 <zbyszek_> #info It seems no work has been done on this.
17:32:47 <nirik> yeah, it would be great if this could finally get done
17:32:59 <smooge> it will be moved to a new person
17:33:24 <smooge> ajax will look at it soon
17:33:42 <zbyszek_> #action ajax to look at the Change again.
17:33:55 <zbyszek_> I think we can punt for now.
17:34:00 <Son_Goku> yup
17:34:01 <nirik> +1
17:34:05 <zbyszek_> #topic Python 3.12
17:34:25 <zbyszek_> I think we should just revert this one.
17:34:30 <nirik> yeah, clearly.
17:34:31 <zbyszek_> Let's go back to python 2.7.
17:34:35 <nirik> :)
17:34:36 <smooge> 1.5
17:34:57 <mhayden> zbyszek_: well played
17:35:00 <zbyszek_> 2.7 + 1.5 = 3.12.
17:35:02 <decathorpe> rc1 is already in, so this is looking good?
17:35:07 <Son_Goku> it seems like it landed in F39+
17:35:20 * Son_Goku remembers having to fix things because of distutils removal
17:35:35 <nirik> yeah, it should be on track as far as I can see.
17:36:16 <zbyszek_> #info python3-3.12.0~rc1-1 is in F39 and most packages have been rebuilt.
17:36:28 <zbyszek_> OK, now self-contained.
17:36:40 <zbyszek_> #topic LibreOffice 7.6
17:37:13 <decathorpe> this is on track
17:37:16 <zbyszek_> > Updated mdds, libixion and liborcus have been build in f40-build-side-72322.
17:37:27 <nirik> glad to hear it.
17:37:35 <zbyszek_> Yep, let's revisit next week.
17:37:39 <decathorpe> https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=2278778
17:37:55 <zbyszek_> #info This is in progress. Dependencies have been rebuilt in a side tag.
17:38:13 <zbyszek_> #link https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=2278778
17:38:31 <zbyszek_> #topic Enable fwupd-refresh.timer by default on IoT, CoreOS & Server editions
17:38:42 <sgallagh> This is actively being worked on
17:38:54 <nirik> yeah. let it have more time.
17:38:58 <sgallagh> There are merge requests under review
17:39:05 <zbyszek_> #link https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/fedora-release/pull-request/279
17:39:10 <zbyszek_> #link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-config/pull/2562
17:39:59 <zbyszek_> #info This is actively being worked on. We'll revisit next week.
17:40:16 <zbyszek_> #topic No custom Qt theming for Fedora Workstation
17:40:33 <Son_Goku> this is in progress, and an FE has been requested for it
17:40:58 <Son_Goku> https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/1184
17:41:16 <zbyszek_> OK, let's punt then.
17:41:20 * Son_Goku is not happy we're doing this, but eh...
17:41:26 <Son_Goku> yeah, fine to punt
17:41:33 <zbyszek_> #info Builds have been done after the deadline, so a FE has been requested.
17:41:46 <zbyszek_> #topic Passkey authentication for centrally managed users
17:43:00 <nirik> not sure here, but it's adding a feature, so we could give it more time?
17:43:33 <nirik> but I suppose it could destablize things.
17:43:38 <zbyszek_> It seems to be blocked on selinux policy update: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2223989
17:43:57 <zbyszek_> But "SSSD part is present in Rawhide since June.".
17:45:14 <zbyszek_> I think we can wait a bit more.
17:45:17 <nirik> yeah, and freeipa changes are in too... just needs selinux policy it sounds like
17:45:26 <nirik> yeah, lets defer to next week?
17:45:31 <Son_Goku> sounds good
17:45:46 <zbyszek_> Also possibly some udev rule changes. If those are not made, this might not work for some hardware out of the box. But I think that's OK.
17:46:11 <nirik> yeah
17:46:39 <zbyszek_> #info This is mostly implemented, but is blocked on selinux policy changes and possibly some udev rule changes.
17:47:00 <zbyszek_> #topic Bigger ESP
17:47:29 <Son_Goku> this needs to be reverted, iirc
17:47:38 <Son_Goku> last I heard things were pretty broken
17:47:48 <nirik> well, reverting it will be a lot of pain too.
17:48:16 <decathorpe> as far as I can see, the current implementation has unintended consequences
17:48:30 <zbyszek_> I like Adam's proposal: drop the max size to something smaller than 2G but larger than the current max, as a temporary measure? Make it min 500, max 1G, or min 500, max 750
17:48:49 <decathorpe> yes, that sounds much more reasonable.
17:49:12 <nirik> yeah, I like that plan too... might be workable
17:49:39 <zbyszek_> #info The size change has caused problems, but just reverting it might also cause problems.
17:50:00 <zbyszek_> Should we wait for a proposal from Richard?
17:50:42 <nirik> work on it in bug and revisit next week?
17:51:13 <Son_Goku> sure
17:52:15 <zbyszek_> #info Let's discuss this in the bug and revisit next week.
17:52:23 <zbyszek_> #topic Enable bootupd for Fedora Silverblue & Kinoite
17:52:46 <zbyszek_> > The change itself is ready but it triggers a bug in Anaconda that we would have to fix before merging it again. As this is starting to become a serious issues for bootloader updates on those systems, we'll try to land it as soon as possible via a freeze exception.
17:53:41 <decathorpe> revisit next week?
17:53:46 <nirik> +1
17:53:50 <zbyszek_> Ack.
17:54:07 <sgallagh> +1
17:54:09 <Son_Goku> sure
17:54:18 <zbyszek_> #info We'll revisit this next week. Owners plan to file a FE.
17:54:24 <zbyszek_> OK, that's all of the list.
17:54:49 <zbyszek_> FWIW, my own Change, mkosi-initrd, was pushed to F40 too :(
17:54:53 <zbyszek_> #topic Next week's chair
17:55:03 <zbyszek_> I might not be available next week.
17:55:17 <Son_Goku> I got nuttin, I'll do it
17:55:27 <Son_Goku> not like there's anything else for me to do
17:55:30 <zbyszek_> #action Son_Goku will chair next meeting
17:55:33 <zbyszek_> Thanks.
17:55:37 <zbyszek_> Son_Goku: ??
17:55:43 <zbyszek_> #topic Open Floor
17:55:47 <Son_Goku> don't worry about it
17:55:51 <zbyszek_> I don't believe that.
17:56:07 <nirik> missing scarasm tag?
17:56:31 <nirik> anyhow, I would like to thank adamw for processing through the changes for us!
17:56:40 <Son_Goku> yeah, thanks adamw
17:56:42 <zbyszek_> Yeah, that was nice.
17:56:42 <Son_Goku> adamw++
17:56:51 <Son_Goku> lol no, of course not
17:56:56 <Son_Goku> adamwill++
17:56:56 <zodbot> Son_Goku: Karma for adamwill changed to 1 (for the release cycle f38):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:57:02 <zbyszek_> adamwill++
17:57:09 <sgallagh> adamwill++
17:57:09 <zodbot> sgallagh: Karma for adamwill changed to 2 (for the release cycle f38):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:57:19 <zbyszek_> I think it doesn't like me.
17:57:41 <zbyszek_> If there's nothing for Open Floor, I'll close in .5 minute.
17:58:14 <zbyszek_> #endmeeting