17:02:05 <Son_Goku> #startmeeting FESCO (2023-09-07)
17:02:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Sep  7 17:02:05 2023 UTC.
17:02:05 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:02:05 <zodbot> The chair is Son_Goku. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
17:02:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:02:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2023-09-07)'
17:02:12 <Son_Goku> #meetingname fesco
17:02:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
17:02:14 <nirik> morning
17:02:20 <Son_Goku> #chair nirik, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, mhayden, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor, tstellar
17:02:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku dcantrell decathorpe mhayden mhroncok nirik sgallagh tstellar zbyszek
17:02:27 <dcantrell> .hello2
17:02:28 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
17:02:30 <Son_Goku> .hello ngompa
17:02:31 <zodbot> Son_Goku: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
17:02:33 <mhayden> .hello2
17:02:35 <zodbot> mhayden: mhayden 'Major Hayden' <mhayden@redhat.com>
17:02:36 <decathorpe> .hi
17:02:42 <zodbot> decathorpe: decathorpe 'Fabio Valentini' <decathorpe@gmail.com>
17:02:52 <dbelyavs> hi
17:03:50 <Son_Goku> #topic init process
17:04:01 <Son_Goku> hey folks
17:04:25 <dcantrell> hello
17:04:30 <Son_Goku> so we have two topics on the agenda: one about F39 incomplete changes and one about an unannounced change
17:04:53 <Son_Goku> it seems like the latter one might be quick, so we can do that one first?
17:05:12 <decathorpe> I also want to note that there's four ChangeReadyForWrangler in various stages of being old already
17:05:20 <decathorpe> but yes :)
17:05:21 * Son_Goku sighs
17:05:28 <Son_Goku> we have no wrangler
17:05:38 <mhroncok_web> is this thing on?
17:05:54 <decathorpe> mhroncok_web: apparently yes
17:05:57 <mhroncok_web> thanks
17:07:17 <Son_Goku> well, since no one objects, we'll do that one first
17:07:23 <mhayden> 👍
17:07:39 <Son_Goku> #topic #3062 Unannounced F39 change: Dropping sshd.socket unit from openssh package
17:07:45 <Son_Goku> .fesco 3062
17:07:46 <zodbot> Son_Goku: Issue #3062: Unannounced F39 change: Dropping sshd.socket unit from openssh package - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3062
17:08:36 <Son_Goku> I'm inclined to say this needs to be rolled back for F39 and pushed to F40
17:08:46 <mhroncok_web> I tend to agree
17:08:48 <nirik> So, yeah, there still seems no solution for the ostree ones?
17:08:52 <Son_Goku> it seems that handling the migration for rpm-ostree is non-trivial
17:09:06 <dbelyavs> We probably underestimated the damage - but the current behavior doesn't seem optimal. Technically I can revert it in F39
17:09:07 * nirik nods.
17:09:16 <Son_Goku> rpm-ostree seems to be full of sharp edges for stuff like this :(
17:09:54 <Son_Goku> dbelyavs: if you're still committed to dropping this, can you file a proper change proposal for F40 to do it?
17:10:10 <Son_Goku> then the RPM-OSTree people will need to figure out how to deal with it
17:10:31 <dbelyavs> If the consensus looks this way, I can do it
17:11:31 <decathorpe> speaking for myself, I would prefer it this way yes
17:11:41 <nirik> I think it makes sense to just back out f39 for now... but we are in beta freeze, so it will need to get passed thru
17:11:47 <tstellar> .hello tsttellar
17:11:48 <zodbot> tstellar: Sorry, but user 'tsttellar' does not exist
17:11:52 <tstellar> .hello tstellar
17:11:53 <zodbot> tstellar: tstellar 'Tom Stellard' <tstellar@redhat.com>
17:12:05 <Son_Goku> I think getting in through freeze will not be hard
17:12:16 <nirik> right, we can call it a fesco blocker if we like.
17:12:20 <Son_Goku> our decision will ultimately be a Beta Blocker
17:12:40 <mhayden> agreed here on backing it out in F39
17:12:48 <dcantrell> it feels like the right thing to do
17:13:01 <dbelyavs> I anyway need someone's assistance to write a migration script, I'm afraid
17:15:11 <Son_Goku> Proposal: The Change to drop sshd.socket needs to be reverted before Fedora Linux 39 Beta release. If it is desired to drop this, then FESCo requests a full Change proposal for Fedora Linux 40 so all stakeholders can work on implementing it properly.
17:15:23 <decathorpe> +1
17:15:28 <mhayden> +1
17:15:29 <mhroncok_web> +1
17:15:35 <tstellar> 0
17:15:39 <nirik> +1
17:15:46 <dcantrell> +1
17:17:36 <Son_Goku> +1 for myself
17:17:56 <Son_Goku> #agreed The Change to drop sshd.socket needs to be reverted before Fedora Linux 39 Beta release. If it is desired to drop this, then FESCo requests a full Change proposal for Fedora Linux 40 so all stakeholders can work on implementing it properly. (+6, 1, -0)
17:18:12 <Son_Goku> now to the heavyweight...
17:18:15 <Son_Goku> #topic #3059 F39 incomplete changes: 100% complete deadline
17:18:21 <dbelyavs> Thanks, see you!
17:18:23 <Son_Goku> .fesco 3059
17:18:25 <zodbot> Son_Goku: Issue #3059: F39 incomplete changes: 100% complete deadline - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3059
17:18:27 <nirik> thanks dbelyavs!
17:19:17 <nirik> so, shall we go one by one here?
17:20:22 <Son_Goku> yeah
17:20:26 <Son_Goku> it's a long list :/
17:20:44 <nirik> sadly so
17:20:47 <mhayden> might be able to start from zbyszek_'s updated list: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3059#comment-870702
17:21:31 <nirik> I could try and see if adamw could join us if it would help
17:21:49 <Son_Goku> that would probably help
17:21:53 <Son_Goku> he's been chasing them all down
17:22:44 <nirik> anaconda webui is in... after some fun things.
17:23:48 <nirik> I guess we could also not worry about those that we said had a longer deadline.
17:24:02 <Son_Goku> yeah
17:24:09 <Son_Goku> I think there's a few to point out specifically though
17:24:11 <zbyszek_> .hello2
17:24:12 <zodbot> zbyszek_: Sorry, but user 'zbyszek_' does not exist
17:24:15 <zbyszek_> .hello zbyszek
17:24:16 <zodbot> zbyszek_: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@in.waw.pl>
17:24:21 <zbyszek_> Sorry, I lost track of time.
17:24:42 <nirik> happens to us all.
17:24:50 <nirik> so llvm17 is in (at least an rc)
17:25:24 <decathorpe> what happened to "one by one"? :)
17:25:33 <mhroncok_web> :D
17:25:46 <nirik> sorry. I'll stop
17:25:57 <Son_Goku> decathorpe: that list is too large
17:26:05 <Son_Goku> I forgot how many of these there are
17:26:46 <nirik> we did it last time. ;)
17:27:02 <Son_Goku> alright, looking over the list last time, there's a few that we agreed to follow up on, so we'll do those
17:27:05 <Son_Goku> first up...
17:27:08 <Son_Goku> #topic Modernize Thread Building Blocks for Fedora 39
17:27:25 <Son_Goku> .bug 2175941
17:27:27 <zodbot> Son_Goku: 2175941 – Modernize Thread Building Blocks for Fedora 39 - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/2175941
17:28:34 <decathorpe> looks not done still
17:28:43 <nirik> I think this is not done and should be punted/dropped
17:28:44 <Son_Goku> #info the tbb2020.3 compat package exists, but tbb has not been upgraded
17:29:05 <Son_Goku> I think we should punt this to F40 at this point
17:29:17 <Son_Goku> nothing has happened beyond the initial compat package creation
17:29:36 <mhroncok_web> so it is now packaged twice?
17:30:07 <Son_Goku> yes
17:30:09 <mhroncok_web> if it is punted, we should probably retire the compat package from f39
17:30:16 <nirik> the package so nice, we packaged it twice. ;)
17:30:18 <decathorpe> 🫥️
17:30:20 <zbyszek_> I think this could still happen. If some packages don't work with the new version, they can be trivially built with the compat package.
17:30:24 <Son_Goku> yeah
17:30:34 <Son_Goku> I would also be okay with allowing it up until the Final Freeze
17:30:41 <Son_Goku> nothing on the list is included in any media
17:30:43 <zbyszek_> Yeah.
17:30:59 <decathorpe> for f39, either 2021 needs to be updated or 2020 needs to be retired
17:31:24 <decathorpe> both can still happen before the final freeze starts, but it's starting to be tight
17:31:26 <Son_Goku> but someone (preferably an RHer, since they have more avenues to reach out to them) should reach out to the Change owner and remind them of this
17:31:32 <zbyszek_> Pfff, I upgraded to F39 today, and a) focus-follows-mouse doesn't work, b) dnf5 doesn't implement full repoquery option set, and c) dnf segfaults so I can't run repoquery :(
17:31:55 <zbyszek_> Son_Goku: action me on this, I'll write an email.
17:31:59 <Son_Goku> cool
17:32:24 <nirik> tom has moved on to other things, so I suspect this will need to be taken over by someone else. But sure, you can mail him.
17:33:01 <Son_Goku> #action zbyszek_ will email trodgers to remind him of the Change to get it done before Final Freeze
17:33:08 <Son_Goku> next up...
17:33:26 <Son_Goku> #topic LegacyXorgDriverRemoval
17:33:51 <Son_Goku> .bug 2078921
17:33:53 <zodbot> Son_Goku: 2078921 – Changes/LegacyXorgDriverRemoval - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/2078921
17:34:14 <Son_Goku> so.. did someone talk to ajax about this?
17:34:15 <nirik> not done as far as I can tell.
17:34:34 <mhroncok_web> (I ama bit confused about the order we go trough)
17:34:59 <Son_Goku> mhroncok_web: I'm scrolling through the list from the previous meeting minutes
17:35:17 <mhroncok_web> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3059#comment-870702 ?
17:35:24 <nirik> I can email ajax... in case no one else did?
17:35:47 <Son_Goku> that would be great
17:36:02 <mhroncok_web> Deferred to F38 by FESCo
17:36:06 <mhroncok_web> Deferred to F39 by FESCo
17:36:15 <nirik> yep. it's been punted a while.
17:36:20 <nirik> Does this need to land in beta?
17:36:30 <mhroncok_web> perhaps we move it to not-proposed state if there is no reply?
17:36:40 <dcantrell> yeah, I think so
17:36:46 <zbyszek_> I'm not sure if we should merge this after Beta.
17:36:54 <Son_Goku> #action nirik will email ajax about the Change to find out what's going on here, we need a status update asap
17:36:56 <nirik> yeah. I think it needs to be in a beta
17:37:04 <mhroncok_web> I agree
17:37:04 <Son_Goku> I agree, we need to know asap about it
17:37:18 <Son_Goku> I know beta will be delayed at least a week, so there's that
17:37:32 <Son_Goku> and retiring a ton of packages and deleting them from comps isn't a lot
17:37:35 <Son_Goku> but someone has to do it
17:38:17 <decathorpe> yeah, this has already been delayed multiple times, it's time this gets done ;)
17:38:33 <Son_Goku> it's not even a ton of packages
17:38:36 <Son_Goku> apparently it's just two
17:39:10 <Son_Goku> anyway, on to the next one
17:39:15 <Son_Goku> #topic Bigger ESP
17:39:29 <Son_Goku> .bug 2208181
17:39:30 <zodbot> Son_Goku: 2208181 – BiggerESP - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/2208181
17:40:28 <zbyszek_> .bug 2234951
17:40:29 <Son_Goku> #info This looks like it was fully reverted, so there's nothing to discuss: https://github.com/rhinstaller/anaconda/pull/5081
17:40:30 <zodbot> zbyszek_: 2234951 – Reduce maximum EFI system partition size again - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/2234951
17:40:59 <mhroncok_web> This looks like it was fully reverted
17:41:17 <mhroncok_web> that means, we should update the change proposal not to be listed fir f39, no?
17:41:20 <Son_Goku> Yes
17:41:49 <Son_Goku> I'm not too surprised it got reverted. I got bitten several times trying to use larger ESP sizes with building appliance images in the past :/
17:42:03 <decathorpe> well, not fully reverted
17:42:09 <decathorpe> just upped from 200 to 600
17:42:32 <Son_Goku> for the maximum
17:43:09 <zbyszek_> "The minimum size of the EFI System Partition (ESP) created by Anaconda has changed from 200 MiB to 500 MiB. The maximum size, which is used in most cases, remains at 600 MiB."
17:43:10 <mhroncok_web> "The minimum size of the EFI System Partition (ESP) created by Anaconda has changed from 200 MiB to 500 MiB. The maximum size, which is used in most cases, remains at 600 MiB."
17:43:16 <mhroncok_web> heh
17:43:18 <zbyszek_> Heh.
17:43:22 <Son_Goku> #undo
17:43:22 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by Son_Goku at 17:40:29 : This looks like it was fully reverted, so there's nothing to discuss: https://github.com/rhinstaller/anaconda/pull/5081
17:43:51 <Son_Goku> #info The ESP default size was raised to 500MiB, but the limit of 600MiB was restored. https://github.com/rhinstaller/anaconda/pull/5081
17:44:07 <decathorpe> is it just me or is that update's description not very ... helpful? https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2023-755dc0b0c0
17:44:08 <nirik> so, the change is still there, just needs adjusting for the new numbers...
17:44:13 <Son_Goku> Yup
17:44:36 <decathorpe> ᕕ(  ᐛ )ᕗ
17:44:47 <Son_Goku> hashtag yolo
17:45:24 <Son_Goku> alright, last one...
17:45:27 <Son_Goku> #topic Enable bootupd for Fedora Silverblue & Kinoite
17:45:44 <Son_Goku> .bug 2150982
17:45:46 <zodbot> Son_Goku: 2150982 – Enable bootupd for Fedora Silverblue & Kinoite - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/2150982
17:46:42 <zbyszek_> For the previous topic, the Change page says "This change will increase the minimum size of the ESP to be 500MB, which is also the same value used by Microsoft for Windows 10 and newer.". So I think we might not need to adjust anything.
17:46:59 <Son_Goku> good to know
17:47:14 <Son_Goku> so looking around about bootupd, I don't see anything?
17:47:27 <zbyszek_> Incidentally, this text is how we approved the Change.
17:47:43 <zbyszek_> So it seems that the 2GB maximum was an unplanned detour.
17:48:29 <Son_Goku> yeah
17:48:56 <nirik> I am not finding much on bootupd status. ;(
17:49:02 <decathorpe> where would the bootupd change even happen?
17:49:06 <decathorpe> fedora-release? comps?
17:49:08 <Son_Goku> let me see if I can poke travier
17:50:11 <nirik> I just did on matrix side...
17:50:45 <nirik> doesn't seem like he's around.
17:51:10 <Son_Goku> seems like it
17:51:21 <Son_Goku> so what do we do?
17:51:25 <Son_Goku> punt? wait? what?
17:51:39 <Son_Goku> err punt? delay? what?
17:51:46 <nirik> I'm ok with waiting and getting status...
17:51:59 <zbyszek_> Same.
17:52:05 <mhroncok_web> it can still land in beta even if it did not
17:52:07 <Son_Goku> hmm actually... dustymabe you around?
17:52:28 <Son_Goku> well, worth a shot
17:53:39 <Son_Goku> I guess we'll wait a week, would someone be willing to reach out and get status?
17:54:36 <zbyszek_> I'll write an email now.
17:56:11 <Son_Goku> #action zbyszek_ will email travier/siosm to get an update on the bootupd work
17:56:21 <Son_Goku> and with that, we're done with this list...
17:56:23 <mhroncok_web> I am still confused a bit -- I see changes on the list that we did not talk about, e.g. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AllowRemovalOfTzdata or https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/EnableFwupdRefreshByDefault
17:57:06 <Son_Goku> oh you're right about the first one
17:57:09 <Son_Goku> I missed that
17:57:09 <mhroncok_web> or did we and am I just tired?
17:57:23 <Son_Goku> the second one I skipped because they have a PR and FE for it
17:57:55 <Son_Goku> but actually I'll do them anyway, because we said we would
17:58:23 <Son_Goku> #topic Enable fwupd-refresh.timer by default on IoT, CoreOS & Server editions
17:58:53 <Son_Goku> .bug 2233233
17:58:55 <zodbot> Son_Goku: 2233233 – Enable fwupd-refresh.timer by default on IoT, CoreOS & Server editions - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/2233233
17:59:18 <zbyszek_> .bug 2236498
17:59:20 <zodbot> zbyszek_: 2236498 – Enable fwupd-refresh.timer on CoreOS, IoT & Server - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/2236498
17:59:24 <zbyszek_> > +3 in https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/blocker-review/issue/1245 , marking accepted.
17:59:33 <zbyszek_> So this seems to be almost done.
17:59:36 <nirik> yep
17:59:41 <Son_Goku> #info The pull request for fedora-release needs to be merged: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/fedora-release/pull-request/279
17:59:54 <Son_Goku> #undo
17:59:54 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by Son_Goku at 17:59:41 : The pull request for fedora-release needs to be merged: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/fedora-release/pull-request/279
18:00:05 <Son_Goku> #info The pull request for fedora-release needs to be merged to finish implementing it: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/fedora-release/pull-request/279
18:00:31 <Son_Goku> once that's done, a build can be submitted and everything will be taken care of from there
18:01:15 <dustymabe> Son_Goku: sorry - wasn't but am now
18:01:19 * nirik nods.
18:01:54 <Son_Goku> dustymabe: do you know anything about bootupd stuff?
18:02:22 <dustymabe> Son_Goku: some - I have general knowledge but not super deep
18:02:24 <dustymabe> what's the question?
18:02:58 <decathorpe> "Enable bootupd for Fedora Silverblue & Kinoite" - has this happened yet?
18:03:58 <dustymabe> Unfortunately I don't know the answer to that question.
18:04:13 <dustymabe> I'm plugged in to Fedora CoreOS land and not as much in day to day around Silverblue
18:04:48 <Son_Goku> okay then
18:04:52 <Son_Goku> no worries
18:05:19 <Son_Goku> we're over time, but I think we can quickly squeeze in this last one...
18:05:24 <Son_Goku> #topic Allow Removal of tzdata
18:05:45 <decathorpe> looks ... partially done?
18:05:50 <Son_Goku> .bug 2233281
18:05:52 <zodbot> Son_Goku: 2233281 – Allow Removal of tzdata - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/2233281
18:06:03 <decathorpe> gcc / glibc changes have apparently landed, but not sure what other packages need changing
18:06:32 <zbyszek_> gcc-13.2.1-2.fc39 build failed.
18:06:58 <Son_Goku> I still have misgivings about this
18:07:24 <decathorpe> you're right. and yes I have too ...
18:07:48 <Son_Goku> so what should we do?
18:07:54 <decathorpe> so ... more like "almost entirely not done"
18:07:54 <Son_Goku> defer? punt?
18:08:24 <decathorpe> well, don't ask me, I was against this change from the start :)
18:08:29 <nirik> well, the glibc one is the more important one right?
18:09:05 <Son_Goku> decathorpe: don't ask me either :)
18:09:09 <zbyszek_> IIUC, it's already in rawhide since a while, and the world hasn't ended ;)
18:09:26 <Son_Goku> I still feel like this is too chainsaw-y
18:10:01 <decathorpe> well, if it's still intended to land more changes in F39, it's getting late
18:10:17 <decathorpe> and the linked gcc build failed, as zbyszek noted
18:10:29 <nirik> the only 'required' ones are glibc and gcc...
18:10:55 <decathorpe> will another gcc build even finish before the final freeze starts? ;)
18:11:01 <nirik> ha.
18:11:21 <nirik> how about we punt a week ? if they get gcc built and through freeze great, otherwise we move it to 40?
18:11:30 <Son_Goku> sounds good to me
18:11:30 <zbyszek_> +1
18:11:34 <Son_Goku> +1
18:12:00 <dcantrell> +1
18:12:06 <tstellar> +1
18:12:27 <decathorpe> +1
18:12:55 <nirik> +1
18:13:13 <nirik> huh, it's not even clear to me why that gcc build failed. Man is it's build log big. ;(
18:13:21 <Son_Goku> #agreed This is punted for now. We'll revisit next week. (+6, 0, 0)
18:13:43 <Son_Goku> phew
18:13:44 <Son_Goku> now...
18:13:46 <Son_Goku> #topic Next week's chair
18:13:48 <mhroncok_web> ack, sorry, got distracted
18:14:03 <Son_Goku> So who can do this next week?
18:14:37 <decathorpe> if nobody else volunteers, I should be around
18:14:46 <zbyszek_> I'll be on AllSystemsGo.
18:14:58 <zbyszek_> I expect I'll miss the meeting.
18:15:38 <zbyszek_> nirik: re gcc: it seems the i686 build fail. So it's most likely the mysterious afflication that affects all i686 builds.
18:16:04 <zbyszek_> * affliction even.
18:16:07 <nirik> whats that ?
18:16:38 <zbyszek_> Dunno, I'd think you'd know. Basically, for some days all i686 builds failed incomprehensibly.
18:16:44 <zbyszek_> It was fixed at some point, I think.
18:17:30 <Son_Goku> #action decathorpe will chair the next meeting
18:17:37 <Son_Goku> #topic Open Floor
18:17:41 <nirik> oh the btrfs thing? yeah, that's long since fixed. ;)
18:17:45 <zbyszek_> Or maybe not. I see that the systemd build I started 12 h ago is still hung on i686.
18:18:00 <zbyszek_> Anyway, let's not digress ;)
18:18:13 <nirik> if you see something, please do file a ticket/issue on it so we can fix it.
18:18:14 <decathorpe> hm, who wrangled the pending changes last time?
18:18:23 <Son_Goku> decathorpe: aomoloney
18:18:37 <decathorpe> no,l more recently than that
18:18:45 <decathorpe> zbyszek? or adamw?
18:18:48 <zbyszek_> Both.
18:19:07 <zbyszek_> I think at some point we were doing thing in parallel.
18:19:24 <decathorpe> could you take another look? there's proposals waiting since Aug 29
18:20:09 <decathorpe> all for F40, so not urgent though
18:21:04 <zbyszek_> If nobody gets to it, I'll try to do it next week.
18:21:09 * sgallagh arrives super-late
18:21:25 <Son_Goku> Well, I think that's that.
18:21:32 <Son_Goku> Thanks everyone for coming!
18:21:38 <sgallagh> argh
18:21:40 <Son_Goku> #endmeeting