17:00:00 <mhayden> #startmeeting FESCO (2023-10-19)
17:00:00 <zodbot_> Meeting started Thu Oct 19 17:00:00 2023 UTC.
17:00:00 <zodbot_> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:00:00 <zodbot_> The chair is mhayden. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:00 <zodbot_> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:00 <zodbot_> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2023-10-19)'
17:00:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Oct 19 17:00:00 2023 UTC.
17:00:00 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:00:00 <zodbot> The chair is mhayden. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
17:00:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2023-10-19)'
17:00:05 <mhayden> #meetingname fesco
17:00:05 <zodbot_> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
17:00:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
17:00:10 <mhayden> #chair nirik, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, mhayden, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor, tstellar
17:00:11 <zodbot_> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku dcantrell decathorpe mhayden mhroncok nirik sgallagh tstellar zbyszek
17:00:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku dcantrell decathorpe mhayden mhroncok nirik sgallagh tstellar zbyszek
17:00:15 <mhayden> #topic init process
17:00:25 <Son_Goku> .hello ngompa
17:00:25 <zodbot_> Son_Goku: [hellomynameis ngompa]
17:00:26 <zodbot> Son_Goku: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
17:00:29 <mhayden> .hello2
17:00:29 <zodbot_> mhayden: [hellomynameis mhayden]
17:00:31 <zodbot> mhayden: mhayden 'Major Hayden' <mhayden@redhat.com>
17:00:35 <Son_Goku> that's different
17:00:40 <mhayden> 🤔
17:00:57 <decathorpe> .hi
17:00:57 <zodbot_> decathorpe: [hellomynameis decathorpe]
17:00:57 <zodbot> decathorpe: decathorpe 'Fabio Valentini' <decathorpe@gmail.com>
17:01:12 <mhayden> feels like one of the zodbots want to issue me one of those sticky name tags that people wear at parties :)
17:01:31 <tstellar> .hello tstellar
17:01:31 <zodbot_> tstellar: [hellomynameis tstellar]
17:01:34 <zodbot> tstellar: tstellar 'Tom Stellard' <tstellar@redhat.com>
17:01:42 <mhroncok_web> .hello churchyard
17:01:42 <zodbot_> mhroncok_web: [hellomynameis churchyard]
17:01:43 <zodbot> mhroncok_web: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' <mhroncok@redhat.com>
17:02:03 <mhayden> yay we have 5! i'll give it another minute or two
17:03:12 <mhayden> okay, let's move along :)
17:03:32 <mhayden> #topic #3059 F39 incomplete changes: 100% complete deadline
17:03:40 <mhayden> .fesco 3059
17:03:41 <zodbot_> mhayden: [showticket https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/%s 3059]
17:03:41 <zodbot> mhayden: Issue #3059: F39 incomplete changes: 100% complete deadline - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3059
17:03:46 <mhayden> what do we have left here
17:03:57 <Son_Goku> wow the bot isn't doing well here
17:04:04 <Son_Goku> what's with all the weird text
17:04:07 * mhayden patpats zodbot_
17:04:21 <mhroncok_web> Python 3.12 is CLOSED
17:04:27 <decathorpe> was the matrix zodbot deployed to irc xD
17:04:46 <mhayden> mhroncok_web: it seems open for business on my machine
17:04:47 <Son_Goku> oh there are two zodbots
17:04:52 <Son_Goku> that's what's going on
17:04:52 <mhroncok_web> :)
17:05:49 <mhayden> last update there from adam says the Cloud EC2 UEFI preferred and IMDSv2Only are already implemented but just weren't noted as such
17:06:18 <decathorpe> is there somewhere an up-to-date list of things that are still in flight?
17:06:27 <mhayden> decathorpe: i was wondering the same
17:06:56 <mhayden> ah, there is a BZ query linked at the top
17:06:58 <mhayden> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=POST&bug_status=MODIFIED&columnlist=product%2Ccomponent%2Cassigned_to%2Cbug_status%2Cshort_desc%2Cchangeddate%2Cbug_severity&f1=blocked&list_id=13304012&o1=substring&order=id%2C%20&query_format=advanced&v1=F39Changes
17:07:18 <mhayden> just four
17:07:36 <mhayden> SPDX looks ongoing with 43% converted
17:07:40 <decathorpe> also the SPDX stuff is ongoing process that can just continue past F39 release date
17:08:00 <mhayden> Fedora in Azure will be done manually for a bit (thanks davedunc) until we get automation in place in F40
17:08:18 <mhayden> next if Flatpaks without modules
17:08:23 <mhayden> s/if/is/
17:08:26 <mhayden> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2216764
17:08:43 <decathorpe> flatpaks without modules seems to be progressing well, from what I can read in the matrix channels
17:09:02 <mhayden> sweet. owen makes a good point that they need people to be done with everything before they can make flatpaks :)
17:09:17 <mhayden> last is clean systemd-boot installs
17:09:19 <mhayden> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2233234
17:09:56 <mhayden> last updated September 22
17:10:33 <decathorpe> looks like https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2234638 is still open
17:11:00 <decathorpe> but it's already marked as freeze excpetion
17:11:18 <mhayden> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2234638
17:12:27 <decathorpe> though another bug for this was already closed: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2237327
17:12:28 <mhayden> last update there is Oct 8 but i can't tell if it's fixed or not
17:13:32 <mhayden> i'm not sure if there's anything for us to take action on with any of these (unless someone sees something i missed)
17:13:41 <mhroncok_web> I suppose we shouldn't block the release on this, so either it's fixed with the freeze exception, or it isn't
17:13:44 <mhroncok_web> or should we?
17:14:19 <decathorpe> I'm inclined to agree with adamw here - "So in theory we can call the current state 'complete' based on the scope in the Change (...) so...I guess we can call this MODIFIED, for now?"
17:14:44 <decathorpe> looks like there's still some bugs to be worked out, but the change itself seems done
17:15:54 <Son_Goku> I'd say so
17:17:06 <mhroncok_web> ack
17:17:27 <decathorpe> we also just got "Fedora Linux 39 Final is NO-GO (#2)" 22 minutes ago, so that gives everyone one more week to get things ironed out :D
17:17:36 <mhayden> 😢
17:18:26 <mhayden> okay, anything else on this topic?
17:18:54 <mhroncok_web> nope
17:19:32 <decathorpe> so ... is there any Change that we still need to keep an eye on, or can we close the ticket for F39?
17:19:41 <Son_Goku> I don't think there's anything left to track
17:19:59 <mhayden> 👍
17:20:01 <mhroncok_web> close it
17:20:09 <mhayden> #topic #3074 Change: SQLAlchemy 2
17:20:13 <mhayden> .fesco 3074
17:20:13 <zodbot_> mhayden: [showticket https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/%s 3074]
17:20:14 <zodbot> mhayden: Issue #3074: Change: SQLAlchemy 2 - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3074
17:20:38 <mhayden> Original author here was asked to revise the change request to remove the side-by-side part -- still have a -1 in the ticket left over from pre-revision
17:20:39 <mhroncok_web> that seems approved
17:20:47 <mhroncok_web> ah, we do
17:21:19 <Son_Goku> I think the intent was that reset after the amendments
17:21:21 <mhayden> i assume that was from the previous revision there but i didn't want to clear zbyzek's -1 without talking to him first
17:21:33 <mhroncok_web> I see
17:21:35 <mhroncok_web> +1
17:21:35 <decathorpe> hum ... the stuff about the parallel-installable compat package is still in there?
17:21:41 <mhayden> oh this was an area where i couldn't find the rules on it and i wasn't sure what to do
17:21:52 <mhroncok_web> decathorpe: no
17:22:04 <mhroncok_web> the feedback section even explains that
17:22:19 <mhroncok_web> "Originally, it was proposed that the compatibility package for version 1.4 would be installable in parallel, but in discussion it turned out the implementation would be technically complicated (an application would have to select which major version of SQLAlchemy to use on startup for which Python doesn’t have good tools, various approaches
17:22:19 <mhroncok_web> would break RPM dependency tooling) and possibly a maintenance nightmare. "
17:22:37 <mhayden> haha, mhroncok_web and were both copying the same paragraph 👏
17:22:37 <mhroncok_web> "A (conflicting) compatibility package python-sqlalchemy1.4..."
17:22:38 <decathorpe> ah. the Summary part doesn't make that clear, but ok, that sounds good to me
17:23:07 <decathorpe> +1 then
17:23:21 <mhroncok_web> "this can be installed alternatively" is not typical thing to say, but I think it's correct
17:23:39 <mhroncok_web> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Changes%2FSQLAlchemy_2&type=revision&diff=690656&oldid=689626
17:23:56 <mhroncok_web> this changed "side-by-side" to "alternatively"
17:26:15 <mhayden> okay, well how about i ask zbysek to re-review in the ticket and clear his -1 if he's good with the new revision?
17:26:38 <mhroncok_web> or we can approve it here
17:27:30 <mhroncok_web> clearly, his intention wasn't to block this proposal entirely. "Procedural -1 to prevent auto-approval."
17:28:13 <mhayden> okay, let's do that here
17:28:22 <mhayden> Proposal: Voting on approval for change 3074 (SQLAlchemy 2) after its revision
17:28:57 <tstellar> +1 <- I voted this on the ticket too.
17:29:04 <mhayden> +1 (also in ticket)
17:29:58 <mhroncok_web> +1 still
17:30:42 <Son_Goku> +1
17:30:48 <mhayden> decathorpe? 😉
17:31:13 <decathorpe> +1 (sorry, had to step away from PC for a minute)
17:31:18 <mhayden> that's okay
17:31:36 <mhayden> #agreed Approved change 3074 for SQLAlchemy 2 (+5, 0, -0)
17:31:50 * mhayden always has difficulty remembering irc meeting commands 🤦‍♂️
17:32:10 <mhayden> #topic Next week's chair 🪑🪑🪑🪑🪑
17:32:33 <mhayden> hoping someone would "sit" in for me next week as my Thursday is crazy busy
17:32:38 <mhayden> that would be chair-itable of you
17:32:39 <mhroncok_web> I can probbaly 🪑
17:32:52 <mhroncok_web> *probably
17:33:02 * mhayden revels in mhroncok_web's usage of emojis 🥰
17:33:11 <tstellar> I could do it too.
17:33:34 <mhayden> i'll have to ask y'all to arm wrestle now. that's how we solve it in Texas.
17:34:09 <tstellar> mhayden: Who gets to chair, the winner or the loser?
17:34:18 <mhayden> 🤔
17:34:27 * mhayden didn't think of that
17:34:54 <mhayden> mhroncok_web: would you do it and have tstellar as a backup in case you're busy?
17:34:59 <mhroncok_web> ack
17:35:03 <mhayden> thanks!
17:35:16 <mhayden> #action mhroncok_web to chair next week's meeting and have tstellar as a backup if something comes up
17:35:22 <mhayden> mhroncok_web++
17:35:26 <mhayden> tstellar++
17:35:26 <zodbot> mhayden: Karma for tstellar changed to 1 (for the release cycle f39):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:35:33 <mhayden> #topic Open Floor
17:35:57 <mhayden> anything anyone wants to talk about? 🍿
17:36:16 <tstellar> Do we need to re-vote on the -fno-omit-frame-pointer change for F40?
17:36:37 <mhroncok_web> I forgot all about it
17:36:44 <mhayden> 👀
17:37:29 <mhayden> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/fno-omit-frame-pointer
17:37:35 <decathorpe> not sure about re-vote, IIRC we just said "re-evaluate"
17:37:40 <mhayden> #link https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2923
17:37:59 <decathorpe> ah, yes. "FESCo will evaluate whether to retain it by Fedora Linux 40"
17:38:45 <mhayden> i'll open a ticket in pagure as a reminder and link back to the old tickets -- that's a good reminder tstellar
17:39:54 <mhroncok_web> good idea, we are not going to evaluate that here
17:40:16 <mhayden> #link https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3084
17:40:24 <mhayden> ⬆️ ticket made for us to review
17:41:10 <mhayden> okay, anything else for the open floor?
17:41:26 <mhayden> 👋 zbyszek
17:41:41 <mhroncok_web> hi zbyszek. we approved the sqlalchemy change here assuming your -1 was strictly procedural. the requested changes have been made
17:41:44 <zbyszek> Hi, sorry, I went to my grandma's birthday and lost track of time.
17:41:49 <decathorpe> somebody approached FPC with a problem of an "unresponsive" but "active" maintainer
17:41:55 <decathorpe> https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/1312
17:41:56 <zbyszek> mhroncok_web: yes, sounds good.
17:42:05 <decathorpe> not sure what can / should be done here
17:42:16 <mhroncok_web> decathorpe: honestly, I'd retire that package
17:42:35 <mhroncok_web> too bad the updates weren't stopped in time
17:43:19 <decathorpe> I agree. but it's still disheartening that the maintainer hasn't responded to either bugmail, bodhi-mail, nor direct messages in *weeks*
17:43:47 <decathorpe> disheartening? disquieting? words are failing me today
17:44:09 <zbyszek> decathorpe: normal?
17:44:15 * zbyszek runs away
17:44:36 * decathorpe cries
17:44:54 <mhroncok_web> typically in such cases, I start a nonresponsive maintainer process and they feel offended :shrug:
17:45:11 <mhroncok_web> been there, done that. it's what we have
17:45:24 <zbyszek> In this particular case, the package should be retired. I don't think we need to do anything else.
17:45:29 <tstellar> Regardless of if the maintainer is active or not, it's pretty clear that adding this package was a bug.
17:45:48 <zbyszek> Exactly. It was a bug, let's fix the bug and move on.
17:46:06 <decathorpe> ok, so I can add a comment with a fesco-go-ahead for the package retirement?
17:46:15 <zbyszek> Yes please.
17:46:31 <mhayden> decathorpe: 👍
17:46:47 <mhayden> anything else on the open floor or are we all set? my belly is rumbling. 😋
17:47:17 <decathorpe> will do, thank you
17:47:18 * mhroncok_web is eating as we type, feel guilty
17:47:25 <mhroncok_web> *feels
17:47:28 * mhroncok_web hides
17:47:35 <mhayden> i hope you feel full! 😜
17:47:51 <decathorpe> I had dinner before the FPC meeting ;)
17:47:54 <mhroncok_web> anyway. endmeeting?
17:48:52 <mhayden> indeed
17:48:54 <mhayden> thanks y'all!
17:48:57 <mhayden> #endmeeting