2024-08-27 17:00:57 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !startmeeting FESCO (2024-08-27)
2024-08-27 17:00:58 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !meetingname fesco
2024-08-27 17:00:59 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-08-27 17:00:57 UTC
2024-08-27 17:00:59 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'FESCO (2024-08-27)'
2024-08-27 17:01:00 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now fesco
2024-08-27 17:01:06 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Chairs: @conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @nirik:matrix.scrye.com, @humaton:fedora.im, @zbyszek:fedora.im, @sgallagh:fedora.im, @jistone:fedora.im, @dcantrell:fedora.im, @decathorpe:fedora.im, @salimma:fedora.im
2024-08-27 17:01:08 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !hi
2024-08-27 17:01:09 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbyszek)
2024-08-27 17:01:11 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Init Process
2024-08-27 17:01:23 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !hi
2024-08-27 17:01:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his
2024-08-27 17:01:32 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> !hi
2024-08-27 17:01:34 <@zodbot:fedora.im> David Cantrell (dcantrell) - he / him / his
2024-08-27 17:01:35 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning
2024-08-27 17:01:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-08-27 17:01:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-08-27 17:01:51 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I need to drop in ~20 minutes...
2024-08-27 17:02:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-08-27 17:02:23 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-08-27 17:03:14 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> OK, we've got quorum so let's get started and others can join as they arrive.
2024-08-27 17:03:41 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic  #3262 Permanent Updates Policy exception for uv
2024-08-27 17:03:46 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !fesco 3264
2024-08-27 17:03:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 2 hours ago
2024-08-27 17:03:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2024-08-27 17:03:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** 21 hours ago by amoloney
2024-08-27 17:03:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2024-08-27 17:03:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3264** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3264):**Incomplete Changes Report for Fedora Linux 41**
2024-08-27 17:03:50 <@jistone:fedora.im> !hi
2024-08-27 17:03:50 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Josh Stone (jistone) - he / him / his
2024-08-27 17:04:15 <@salimma:fedora.im> wait, are we doing 3262 or 3264?
2024-08-27 17:04:24 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Oops, mistyped
2024-08-27 17:04:37 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !fesco 3262
2024-08-27 17:04:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3262** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3262):**Permanent Updates Policy exception for uv**
2024-08-27 17:04:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2024-08-27 17:04:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 3 days ago
2024-08-27 17:04:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** 5 days ago by music
2024-08-27 17:04:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2024-08-27 17:04:53 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩: Thanks for catching that
2024-08-27 17:05:17 <@jistone:fedora.im> is `uv` ever a `BuildRequires`? (now or in the future)
2024-08-27 17:05:22 <@jistone:fedora.im> or more of an end user thing?
2024-08-27 17:05:22 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> So, the discussion in the ticket is generally in favor of allowing the exception, but I wanted to put a constraint that the exception ends once upstream stabilizes.
2024-08-27 17:06:03 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Josh Stone: Seems like it's more of an end-user thing
2024-08-27 17:06:22 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I don't quite see the point, but I'm fine with the constraint too. +1 either way.
2024-08-27 17:06:54 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't see much of a point in the constraint either, but meh
2024-08-27 17:07:01 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm +1 with or without
2024-08-27 17:07:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> Once it hits 1.0 hopefully it does not need a permanent exception anymore, right? so it's nice having it expire I guess. I have a slight preference for having the constraint, but I'm ok either way
2024-08-27 17:08:06 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> my gut feeling is that uv and things like it will evolve rapidly and we'll never need the exception, but either way +1 from me
2024-08-27 17:08:31 <@jistone:fedora.im> +1 with or without the constraint, but I think that could also be handled by revoking approval if it gets mismanaged
2024-08-27 17:08:31 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> dcantrell: Never need the exception or the expiration of the exception?
2024-08-27 17:09:32 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> either, honestly.  I feel like uv is the sort of thing that will undergo some significant implementation changes that we'll just be back here talking about, hypothetically, moving to uv2 because that's what everyone did but how do we deal with the uv stuff in Fedora now
2024-08-27 17:09:37 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Josh Stone: You make a fair point. We can always revoke it later. So I guess I'll just drop my pitch for the constraint so we can move on.
2024-08-27 17:10:38 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> dcantrell: I don't understand. We already have requests for a stable updates exception.
2024-08-27 17:10:56 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> This ticket is about whether we just give them a "permanent" exception to ignore the stable updates policy.
2024-08-27 17:12:01 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> right, and I think that's ultimately what will have to be allowed because of the rate of change in the space of Python module management.  this stuff changes so rapidly.  I don't think there will ever be a point that we would consider stable, so we're really just deciding to allow it or not in Fedora.  and I think we need to allow it
2024-08-27 17:12:21 <@music:fedora.im> Hi, dropping in here in case I can answer any questions.
2024-08-27 17:12:50 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> dcantrell: In short: you're voting +1 for the permanent exception. Yes?
2024-08-27 17:12:59 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> yes
2024-08-27 17:13:14 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> for user-facing tools like black; ruff; and uv, yeah this makes a lot of sense
2024-08-27 17:13:41 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> (I believe we already have exceptions for the former two, so this is just a new one to the pile)
2024-08-27 17:13:54 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I count +7 in favor in-ticket and in meeting, combined.
2024-08-27 17:14:51 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !agreed The "uv" package is granted a permanent stable updates exception (+7, 0, -0)
2024-08-27 17:15:13 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic  #3264 Incomplete Changes Report for Fedora Linux 41
2024-08-27 17:15:19 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !fesco 3264
2024-08-27 17:15:20 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** 21 hours ago by amoloney
2024-08-27 17:15:20 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 2 hours ago
2024-08-27 17:15:20 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2024-08-27 17:15:20 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2024-08-27 17:15:20 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3264** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3264):**Incomplete Changes Report for Fedora Linux 41**
2024-08-27 17:16:00 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Looks like there are 18 Changes marked as Incomplete right now.
2024-08-27 17:16:19 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> there were some updates from the orig ticket comment
2024-08-27 17:16:19 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Oh, wait. That may not be accurate.
2024-08-27 17:16:45 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> How do we want to go through these? Just one by one from the top of the ticket?
2024-08-27 17:16:51 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Let's just go one-by-one.
2024-08-27 17:16:57 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah.
2024-08-27 17:16:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> as topics, yeah, that's pretty much the way to go
2024-08-27 17:17:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and have info statements as needed
2024-08-27 17:17:15 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that way there will be summarized info
2024-08-27 17:17:18 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Yeah, topics so that the minutes are legible.
2024-08-27 17:17:19 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Incomplete Change: Python 3.13
2024-08-27 17:17:28 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python3.13
2024-08-27 17:17:42 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !info There are still 59 packages in Fedora 41 that have not been rebuilt with Python 3.13 yet.
2024-08-27 17:17:43 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I think this one is in a Testable state, no?
2024-08-27 17:17:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think we usually call this "done"
2024-08-27 17:17:59 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Yeah, that's like 99% done.
2024-08-27 17:18:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so ON_QA makes sense for this
2024-08-27 17:18:24 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> +1
2024-08-27 17:18:45 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Are we voting on something?
2024-08-27 17:18:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't think so
2024-08-27 17:19:21 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Given the number of tickets, I suggest we note the current state and ask whether anyone wants to pull the emergency cord on the change.
2024-08-27 17:19:28 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> If no one does, we proceed to the next.
2024-08-27 17:19:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> no, I just was saying "I agree with Conan Kudo"
2024-08-27 17:19:44 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> kk
2024-08-27 17:20:15 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info Change is ON_QA and sufficiently complete at this stage
2024-08-27 17:20:31 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic IPU6 Camera Support
2024-08-27 17:20:38 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/IPU6_Camera_support
2024-08-27 17:20:52 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !info Ticket is in MODIFIED state.
2024-08-27 17:21:17 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I'd just leave it as it. It seems to be on trakc.
2024-08-27 17:21:28 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah.
2024-08-27 17:21:29 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> The description from Hans seems to suggest it should be ON_QA, really
2024-08-27 17:21:38 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's a fiddly kernel thing 🤷‍♂️
2024-08-27 17:21:45 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but yeah, it does sound like it should be ON_QA
2024-08-27 17:22:13 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info Change is feature complete, but with some open bugs.
2024-08-27 17:22:28 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic RPM 4.20
2024-08-27 17:22:36 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RPM-4.20
2024-08-27 17:22:40 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !info Ticket was updated to ON_QA today.
2024-08-27 17:22:52 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Good enough for me.
2024-08-27 17:22:59 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Everything seems to be on track, bugs are resolved as they are discovered.
2024-08-27 17:23:35 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Golang 1.23
2024-08-27 17:23:41 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/golang1.23
2024-08-27 17:24:08 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> (Stop me if I go too quickly, but we have a lot to cover so I'm not going to spend a lot of time on cases that look fine)
2024-08-27 17:24:11 <@jistone:fedora.im> there's a build in f41: https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=2531786
2024-08-27 17:24:18 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> golang-1.23.0-3.fc41
2024-08-27 17:24:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> This looks on track
2024-08-27 17:24:38 <@zbyszek:fedora.im>  Update to Go 1.23.0
2024-08-27 17:24:38 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Alejandro Sáez • 13 days ago 
2024-08-27 17:24:48 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> The Change says that a mass-rebuild of all dependent packages is required.
2024-08-27 17:24:57 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> This landed before or after the main Mass Rebuild?
2024-08-27 17:25:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> after
2024-08-27 17:26:05 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'm not real thrilled with the current state. Looking at the "Dependencies" section it lists ~2000 packages that need to be rebuilt.
2024-08-27 17:26:17 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> If that happened after the regular mass-rebuild, I'm inclined to punt this.
2024-08-27 17:26:40 <@jistone:fedora.im> I'm not sure why a rebuild is required though
2024-08-27 17:26:48 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah... thats a lot of churn after freeze has started. I don't know that bodhi will like an update with 2000 builds.
2024-08-27 17:27:25 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> strictly speaking, it's not required, but since Go programs (like Rust programs) embed the standard runtime into their binaries, it's preferred
2024-08-27 17:27:37 <@jistone:fedora.im> that's just for leaf packages then
2024-08-27 17:27:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yup
2024-08-27 17:28:13 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> more specifically only for ones that produce binaries
2024-08-27 17:28:20 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> So all the built packages will effectively NOT be golang 1.23, meaning this Change will have had no effect.
2024-08-27 17:28:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> so it's tricky right. a mass rebuild is not really required, but it was part of the change
2024-08-27 17:28:29 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Other than to land a new compiler package
2024-08-27 17:28:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I mean, we don't do it for rust either and nobody bats an eye except for when firefox fails to build with it
2024-08-27 17:29:06 <@salimma:fedora.im> given that there is a request to upgrade golang in f40, I guess it will be silly to revert this
2024-08-27 17:29:06 <@jistone:fedora.im> we also approved a stable rebase without further rebuilds: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3261
2024-08-27 17:29:07 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Proposal: Reject the Change as incomplete due to the lack of a rebuild, but don't block inclusion of the compiler
2024-08-27 17:29:13 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> -1
2024-08-27 17:29:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> ah right, that's the issue I was thinking of
2024-08-27 17:29:50 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I dunno, I think it'd be worth punting and asking them first what they want to do
2024-08-27 17:29:59 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> To explain: I think it's important that we have the updated compiler, so that users get the latest. It might also be needed for some packages and programs.
2024-08-27 17:30:05 <@jistone:fedora.im> I think the Change still makes sense as a marketing point, even if it's just the compiler
2024-08-27 17:30:15 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't think it's unreasonable for them to still do the mass build of the go stack even now
2024-08-27 17:30:37 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Having the mass rebuild would be nice, so I think we should talk to the Change Owner and coordiante a mass rebuild. 
2024-08-27 17:30:41 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> if it was after beta and we're in final freeze, that would be a different story
2024-08-27 17:30:50 <@salimma:fedora.im> we can punt then? ask them to either commit to finishing a mass rebuild, or editing the change to only say the new compiler is shipped
2024-08-27 17:31:08 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> But no matter if the mass rebuild happens or not, the Change should be left in, since the part that's visible to users is implemented.
2024-08-27 17:31:15 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes
2024-08-27 17:31:15 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> and do you all expect to land that before beta? ie make it a blocker?
2024-08-27 17:31:24 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> NO
2024-08-27 17:31:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> I would not delay the beta, no
2024-08-27 17:31:36 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'm firmly against blocking on a rebuild
2024-08-27 17:31:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> no delaying the beta
2024-08-27 17:31:43 <@salimma:fedora.im> mass rebuild will happen in a side tag anyway right? so it's not really affected by the beta freeze
2024-08-27 17:31:47 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> No, the individual packages can be updated separately.
2024-08-27 17:31:59 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩: But whether that build is tagged into Beta matters
2024-08-27 17:32:07 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'm just saying timeline wise it's there's room to complete a mass build
2024-08-27 17:32:12 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> A side tag is not needed, because the updated compiler version is already in stable.
2024-08-27 17:32:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'll be ok allowing a FE for this
2024-08-27 17:32:23 <@salimma:fedora.im> but not blocking
2024-08-27 17:32:31 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩: I'm honestly against that too.
2024-08-27 17:32:38 <@salimma:fedora.im> zbyszek: true, but there might be dependency chains
2024-08-27 17:32:47 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think its too late for a mass rebuild....
2024-08-27 17:32:57 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> It'd be better to do the compilations and create updates and let them land after Beta.
2024-08-27 17:32:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> heck, it's also important to note we can skip any packages built after go 1.23 landed too
2024-08-27 17:33:04 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so the subset of packages may be even smaller
2024-08-27 17:33:27 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we don't know that because we're not computing what the set is right now, but we can ask them to identify it
2024-08-27 17:33:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> at this point we should really ask the Golang change owners to see what they can commit to doing, yeah
2024-08-27 17:33:44 <@jistone:fedora.im> I don't think dependency chains matter either -- again, we're only talking about leaf binaries
2024-08-27 17:34:11 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Proposal: We allow them to revise the Change to be just about shipping the compiler. We don't advertise anything implying that packages were rebuilt USING that compiler. We allow packages to build as their maintainers see fit, within the normal confines of the Freezes and Stable Updates Policy.
2024-08-27 17:34:24 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> +1
2024-08-27 17:34:34 <@jistone:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 17:34:39 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 17:34:49 <@salimma:fedora.im> assuming all the 'library' source only packages builds fine, yeah, mass rebuilding everything once works. if you need to patch some of them that's another story
2024-08-27 17:34:51 <@salimma:fedora.im> =1
2024-08-27 17:34:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-08-27 17:34:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 17:35:30 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's too bad the Go and Fedora schedules are poorly aligned
2024-08-27 17:35:38 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !agreed We allow them to revise the Change to be just about shipping the compiler. We don't advertise anything implying that packages were rebuilt USING that compiler. We allow packages to build as their maintainers see fit, within the normal confines of the Freezes and Stable Updates Policy. (+6, 0, -0)
2024-08-27 17:36:11 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Systemd Security Hardening
2024-08-27 17:36:18 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SystemdSecurityHardening
2024-08-27 17:37:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> This is one of those ongoing changes, no? I'm not sure there's anything we can specifically do one way or another here?
2024-08-27 17:37:23 <@jistone:fedora.im> it was already postponed from F40
2024-08-27 17:38:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> probably this is going to have to be deferred
2024-08-27 17:38:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> changing systemd units is a fairly invasive thing
2024-08-27 17:38:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah
2024-08-27 17:38:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> I have seen some of these for packages I comaintain and don't feel comfortable merging them
2024-08-27 17:39:00 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> This seems like something that should just advertise 'chunks' of what gets done in that cycle...
2024-08-27 17:39:24 <@jistone:fedora.im> yeah, it doesn't really have a good finish line
2024-08-27 17:39:49 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Proposal: Ask them to revise the title to something indicating "F41 progress" and edit Release Notes section with highlights.
2024-08-27 17:40:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 17:40:46 <@jistone:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 17:40:49 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 17:41:11 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 17:41:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-08-27 17:42:01 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !agreed  Ask them to revise the title to something indicating "F41 progress" and edit Release Notes section with highlights. (+6, 0, -0)
2024-08-27 17:42:18 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Netavark Nftables Default
2024-08-27 17:42:24 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NetavarkNftablesDefault
2024-08-27 17:42:32 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I need to drop now. Sorry!
2024-08-27 17:42:38 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Looks like that's ON_QA now.
2024-08-27 17:43:19 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Any concerns here or shall we move ahead?
2024-08-27 17:43:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> nah
2024-08-27 17:43:34 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> move on
2024-08-27 17:43:47 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Haskell GHC 9.6 and Stackage LTS 22
2024-08-27 17:43:52 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Haskell_GHC_9.6_and_Stackage_22
2024-08-27 17:44:24 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Looks like this was moved to ON_QA today.
2024-08-27 17:44:36 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> cool.
2024-08-27 17:44:49 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info Ticket was moved to ON_QA today.
2024-08-27 17:45:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> oof we forgot to info the last one too
2024-08-27 17:45:21 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info PREVIOUS TOPIC: Ticket was moved to ON_QA
2024-08-27 17:45:33 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'll adjust it when I send the minutes out.
2024-08-27 17:45:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> sounds good
2024-08-27 17:45:56 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Make Tuned the Default Power Profile Management Daemon
2024-08-27 17:46:03 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/TunedAsTheDefaultPowerProfileManagementDaemon
2024-08-27 17:47:11 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: You probably know best: what's the plan WRT powerDevil?
2024-08-27 17:47:23 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: You probably know best: what's the plan WRT PowerDevil?
2024-08-27 17:48:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I will update powerdevil to `Recommends: ppd-service` and `Suggests: tuned-ppd`
2024-08-27 17:48:54 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> if someone wants to use power-profiles-daemon, by all means
2024-08-27 17:49:02 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it should still satisfy the dependency
2024-08-27 17:50:41 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> OK, sounds like we can just punt on this and revisit it at Beta Freeze?
2024-08-27 17:50:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yep
2024-08-27 17:51:09 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Wait, is Freeze today?
2024-08-27 17:52:03 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Yes, yes it is.
2024-08-27 17:52:23 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yep
2024-08-27 17:52:35 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> So, asking a different question: should this block Beta?
2024-08-27 17:52:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> so we can punt until the end of the meeting :)
2024-08-27 17:53:01 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I don't think we want to change power-management between Beta and Final
2024-08-27 17:53:01 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I just pushed the commit to rawhide and submitted a build there
2024-08-27 17:53:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I can submit an update for f41 right now :)
2024-08-27 17:53:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: Great, but I think we want to decide on whether FESCo wants to consider it blocking.
2024-08-27 17:53:52 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'm of the opinion that either it blocks Beta or the Change is postponed to F42.
2024-08-27 17:54:29 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yes.
2024-08-27 17:55:20 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> whats all left to do here?
2024-08-27 17:55:28 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> besides the powedevil part
2024-08-27 17:55:30 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Proposal: This change blocks Beta for Fedora 41.
2024-08-27 17:55:35 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> nothing else is left
2024-08-27 17:56:10 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> If the Change introduces bugs, we can fix them for Final, but I think we have to land it on the Beta media or it won't get real-world testing
2024-08-27 17:56:36 <@jistone:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 17:56:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 17:57:15 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ok, if it's just that... sure, +1
2024-08-27 17:57:29 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> I've got another call, have to drop.  +1 from me
2024-08-27 17:58:52 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: ?
2024-08-27 17:58:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> pushed builds
2024-08-27 17:58:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-08-27 17:59:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !agreed This Change blocks Beta for Fedora 41. (+6, 0, -0)
2024-08-27 18:00:00 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so likely we need a blocker bug, etc...
2024-08-27 18:00:00 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> By my count, we now have exactly five FESCo members left. Enough to continue, but barely.
2024-08-27 18:01:01 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: Could you handle opening the blocker BZ for us?
2024-08-27 18:01:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> sure
2024-08-27 18:01:50 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Thank you
2024-08-27 18:02:03 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !action Conan Kudo to handle filing a blocker BZ for this Change
2024-08-27 18:02:19 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Libvirt Virtual Network NFTables
2024-08-27 18:02:27 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibvirtVirtualNetworkNFTables
2024-08-27 18:03:30 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so, not sure the state here. No answer from change owner...
2024-08-27 18:04:46 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Yeah, I don't even have a good way to try to test this right now.
2024-08-27 18:05:14 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> looks like it might be already done
2024-08-27 18:05:23 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Shall we punt for a week to get a reply from the Change owner and delay the Change to F42 if it's not complete?
2024-08-27 18:05:38 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> nirik: Source?
2024-08-27 18:05:45 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> - Update to version 10.4.0
2024-08-27 18:05:45 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> - Change virtual network backend from iptables to nftables
2024-08-27 18:05:45 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> * Wed Jun 05 2024 Daniel P. Berrangé <berrange@redhat.com> - 10.4.0-1
2024-08-27 18:05:54 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=2537274
2024-08-27 18:06:03 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, lets ask them to confirm
2024-08-27 18:07:13 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> OK, they've been pinged in the ticket, but I'll drop Dan a line directly as well
2024-08-27 18:07:48 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info This is believed to be complete. sgallagh will reach out to the Change Owner for confirmation.
2024-08-27 18:08:08 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Confidential Virtualization Host with AMD SEV-SNP
2024-08-27 18:08:14 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ConfidentialVirtHostAMDSEVSNP
2024-08-27 18:08:49 <@jistone:fedora.im> zbyszek suggested postponing: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3264#comment-927548
2024-08-27 18:09:38 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, < 50% of intended packages in seems too low
2024-08-27 18:09:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yup
2024-08-27 18:09:52 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Proposal: Defer Change to Fedora 42
2024-08-27 18:09:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-08-27 18:09:58 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> +1
2024-08-27 18:10:37 <@jistone:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:11:08 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩: ?
2024-08-27 18:11:49 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !agreed Defer Change to Fedora 42 (+5, 0, -0)
2024-08-27 18:11:51 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:11:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> sorry
2024-08-27 18:11:58 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> (I'm interpreting his previous comment as +1)
2024-08-27 18:11:59 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Or that :)
2024-08-27 18:12:26 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic KDE Plasma Mobile Spin & Fedora Kinoite Spin\
2024-08-27 18:12:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Fedora_KDE_Plasma_Mobile
2024-08-27 18:13:02 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I think I saw that the Live ISO is being built now, so I think this is ready?
2024-08-27 18:13:15 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Yes, this is effectively ON_QA
2024-08-27 18:13:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> There is a pending pull request to activate it for F41 but they have successfully built in Rawhide.
2024-08-27 18:13:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Ah, the BZ was updated today to ON_QA
2024-08-27 18:13:46 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> We are just waiting for a compose to finish things off.
2024-08-27 18:13:50 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: I installed the Rawhide build of it today; looking good!
2024-08-27 18:13:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> :D
2024-08-27 18:14:12 <@jistone:fedora.im> @siosm also commented on the incomplete changes ticket
2024-08-27 18:14:18 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info Images exist and BZ was moved to ON_QA
2024-08-27 18:14:58 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info Kinoite Mobile ISOs will not be available for Fedora 41
2024-08-27 18:15:39 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Enable bootupd for Fedora Silverblue & Kinoite
2024-08-27 18:15:45 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2150982
2024-08-27 18:16:08 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> not available? did you mean now available?
2024-08-27 18:16:28 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraSilverblueBootupd
2024-08-27 18:16:42 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> hey o/ sorry, I partially forgot about the meeting, and was stuck in transit
2024-08-27 18:16:46 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> nirik: No, I was clarifying that the Kinoite variant won't be there
2024-08-27 18:16:46 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Kinoite Mobile is the ostree one, that isn't going to have ISOs, only bootc images
2024-08-27 18:16:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Kinoite Mobile is the ostree one, that isn't going to have ISOs, only bootc images this cycle
2024-08-27 18:17:21 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Oh, ok, I see what you are saying then...
2024-08-27 18:17:30 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> My "clarification" may have been less than helpful. Sorry.
2024-08-27 18:17:58 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info This is now ON_QA and is testable for Beta
2024-08-27 18:18:53 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic mkosi-initrd
2024-08-27 18:18:59 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/mkosi-initrd
2024-08-27 18:19:12 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info Change Owner has deferred this Change to Fedora 42
2024-08-27 18:19:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic OstreeNativeContainerStable
2024-08-27 18:19:40 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/OstreeNativeContainerStable
2024-08-27 18:20:19 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> This one seems to have been effectively withdrawn in favor of the bootc initiative
2024-08-27 18:20:25 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah.
2024-08-27 18:20:30 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's basically the same thing anyway
2024-08-27 18:20:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> just a spruced up branding
2024-08-27 18:20:50 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Shall we just mark this Change as "withdrawn" then?
2024-08-27 18:20:57 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes
2024-08-27 18:21:15 <@salimma:fedora.im> it did mention bootc in the change proposal though?
2024-08-27 18:21:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> but yeah
2024-08-27 18:21:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> I guess bootc took off more than anticiapted
2024-08-27 18:21:38 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩: The "Bootc Initiative" is a Fedora Council "Initiative"
2024-08-27 18:21:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> this change document was always confusing anyway
2024-08-27 18:21:48 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Which is a project-wide effort, rather than a Change
2024-08-27 18:21:55 <@salimma:fedora.im> I guess bootc took off more than anticipated
2024-08-27 18:22:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I remember when we first got it and I kind of panicked over it :)
2024-08-27 18:22:10 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I mean, it's still likely to need changes...
2024-08-27 18:22:29 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Yes, but this one is too comprehensive (and probably not completable)
2024-08-27 18:22:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah, but the initiative should have these changes broken down into more logical implementable chunks
2024-08-27 18:22:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> even now when I read this I don't know what this change actually does
2024-08-27 18:22:51 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yep
2024-08-27 18:23:12 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Proposal: Reject this change and request that smaller ones be resubmitted for Fedora 42.
2024-08-27 18:23:16 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> throwing around buzzwords mainly
2024-08-27 18:23:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-08-27 18:23:34 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:23:46 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> +1
2024-08-27 18:24:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:25:02 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !agreed Reject this change and request that smaller ones be resubmitted for Fedora 42. (+5, 0, -0)
2024-08-27 18:25:30 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic PyTorch 2.4
2024-08-27 18:25:30 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PyTorch2.4
2024-08-27 18:26:02 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info This is now ON_QA
2024-08-27 18:26:22 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Tom Rix just got back from vacation too. So looks like everything is gravy. :)
2024-08-27 18:26:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic ROCm 6.2
2024-08-27 18:26:36 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ROCm6.2
2024-08-27 18:27:04 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Per zbyszek, this doesn't look like it's ready.
2024-08-27 18:27:09 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Proposal: defer to F42
2024-08-27 18:27:30 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Actually, let me revise that.
2024-08-27 18:28:00 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> This is pretty self-contained, so it could probably land late without much trouble.
2024-08-27 18:28:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Yeah, let's ask them to try to get it in before Final Freeze.
2024-08-27 18:28:32 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I can get behind that.
2024-08-27 18:29:18 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> seems reasonable
2024-08-27 18:29:24 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Proposal: Permit this to land anytime before Final Freeze, revisit decision at that time.
2024-08-27 18:29:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-08-27 18:29:32 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:29:34 <@jistone:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:29:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> +1
2024-08-27 18:29:48 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> (is this even on install media? it might make sense to allow it landing even later ... 
2024-08-27 18:29:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Michel Lind 🎩: ping vote?
2024-08-27 18:29:57 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it is not as far as I know
2024-08-27 18:30:26 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Fabio Valentini: I'd not want it to be part of the release announcement if it's not ready at Freeze.
2024-08-27 18:30:55 <@jsteffan:fedora.im> it shouldn't be no
2024-08-27 18:30:57 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> well, release announcement can be tweaked until GA too ... but yes
2024-08-27 18:31:26 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !agreed Permit this to land anytime before Final Freeze, revisit decision at that time. (+5, 0, -0)
2024-08-27 18:31:40 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Reduce the amount of "dontaudit" rules pertaining to unlabeled_t
2024-08-27 18:31:46 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SELinux_dontaudit_unlabeled_t
2024-08-27 18:32:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> I like this change. no status update though...
2024-08-27 18:32:41 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> this looks like nothing happened?
2024-08-27 18:32:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but yeah I like this change too
2024-08-27 18:33:28 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I see no clear indication in the changelog for selinux-policy that this happened.
2024-08-27 18:33:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> let's defer this to F42
2024-08-27 18:33:59 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Want to make that a "Proposal:"?
2024-08-27 18:34:09 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> (assuming it didn't already happen, that is?)
2024-08-27 18:34:46 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Proposal: Defer this Change to F42
2024-08-27 18:35:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1 from me of course
2024-08-27 18:35:19 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:35:33 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> We can retcon this decision if it turns out it's already in place.
2024-08-27 18:36:45 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:36:53 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> +1
2024-08-27 18:37:16 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:37:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> idempotent deferral :)
2024-08-27 18:37:42 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !agreed Defer this Change to F42 (+5, 0, -0)
2024-08-27 18:38:01 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Taskwarrior 3
2024-08-27 18:38:11 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Taskwarrior3
2024-08-27 18:38:29 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> (Every time I see this, my brain translates it to Mechwarrior 3)
2024-08-27 18:39:19 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm confused
2024-08-27 18:39:26 <@salimma:fedora.im> the tracking bug was only created... 15 days ago?
2024-08-27 18:40:12 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> This doesn't look complete yet.
2024-08-27 18:40:30 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> The `task2` package exists, but `task` hasn't been updated to Taskwarrior 3
2024-08-27 18:40:38 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> task add work on task change
2024-08-27 18:40:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> some of the tracking bugs didn't exist because Aoife Moloney - On Vacation, Back 2nd Sept's scripts were crashing
2024-08-27 18:40:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I debugged it with her and got it working
2024-08-27 18:40:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that's why some of the bugs are so new
2024-08-27 18:40:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> ah
2024-08-27 18:41:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> I have something to propose about that in open floor later :P
2024-08-27 18:41:12 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Anyhow, since this is somewhat of a leaf here, lets ping them and ask and revisit next week?
2024-08-27 18:41:20 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> task2 was only created today, which is concerning
2024-08-27 18:41:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> this one is self contained so I guess yeah we can defer
2024-08-27 18:41:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> worksforme
2024-08-27 18:41:27 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I disagree
2024-08-27 18:41:51 <@salimma:fedora.im> I suspect some owners only get reminded when a task is opened, and this one was a bit late?
2024-08-27 18:41:54 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Actually, hang on. I think I misread the upgrade section.
2024-08-27 18:42:09 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Looks like existing users will be upgraded to `task2`, not v3
2024-08-27 18:42:17 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> So I guess it's fine to punt
2024-08-27 18:42:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> existing users get task2 swapped in place of task v2, yeah
2024-08-27 18:42:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> so you have to explicitly opt in to get to task v3, and... landing task2 first is the right order
2024-08-27 18:42:45 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Yes
2024-08-27 18:43:08 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> So I think this is proceeding and it should be safe for existing users.
2024-08-27 18:43:15 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I vote we punt and reconsider it next week.
2024-08-27 18:43:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> worksforme
2024-08-27 18:43:45 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:43:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-08-27 18:44:02 <@jistone:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:44:10 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> That's the last on the list that Aoife created, but there's a few more tickets on Miro's comment.
2024-08-27 18:44:31 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info Punting the decision on this Change until next week. (+5, 0, -0)
2024-08-27 18:45:04 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic GNU Toolchain Update (gcc 14+, binutils 2.42+, glibc 2.40, gdb 14+)
2024-08-27 18:45:14 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2274811
2024-08-27 18:45:22 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> This has been in place for months, so I think we're good here.
2024-08-27 18:45:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yup
2024-08-27 18:46:02 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info This has been in place since March.
2024-08-27 18:46:38 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'm skipping the ones on the list that are struck out.
2024-08-27 18:46:45 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Fedora Miracle
2024-08-27 18:46:52 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2282169
2024-08-27 18:47:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> This being non-blocking and a leaf, we can probably just revisit at Final Freeze, I think
2024-08-27 18:47:44 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> This is also pretty much ready to go
2024-08-27 18:47:59 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraMiracle
2024-08-27 18:48:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> All the definitions are in place and we're just waiting for composes to include it
2024-08-27 18:48:15 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> well, and nirik needs to merge my PR to turn it on for 41 :P
2024-08-27 18:48:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but otherwise everything is ready
2024-08-27 18:48:26 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Ah ok
2024-08-27 18:48:38 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info This is pretty much ready, just awaiting a compose.
2024-08-27 18:49:05 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> once we get a rawhide, yep.
2024-08-27 18:49:09 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic LLVM 19
2024-08-27 18:49:31 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LLVM-19
2024-08-27 18:49:53 <@jistone:fedora.im> I asked Tom about this one -- it's building in copr now, and planning to head to koji when that's done
2024-08-27 18:49:56 <@jistone:fedora.im> !link https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/g/fedora-llvm-team/llvm19/
2024-08-27 18:50:27 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't love that it's so late, but hey, they're trying :)
2024-08-27 18:50:35 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> We originally approved this with the expectation that it would be landing during Beta Freeze, so I don't see any reason to relitigate it now
2024-08-27 18:50:37 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> isn't LLVM always late? ...
2024-08-27 18:50:37 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> another one of those misaligned schedules
2024-08-27 18:50:44 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes
2024-08-27 18:50:47 <@jistone:fedora.im> right
2024-08-27 18:50:57 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> for all intents and purposes it's basically where we expect it to be right now
2024-08-27 18:51:07 <@jistone:fedora.im> there was also a plan to have all compat packages in place early, but they ran into trouble with soname conflicts in rpm provides
2024-08-27 18:51:17 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info The late landing of LLVM was planned for in the original proposal. It will land during Beta Freeze.
2024-08-27 18:52:03 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic fedora-repoquery tool
2024-08-27 18:52:13 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/fedora-repoquery_tool
2024-08-27 18:52:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> this is the one that's just a new package :)
2024-08-27 18:52:25 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> The ticket hasn't been updated, but this is in F41 stable
2024-08-27 18:52:33 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> So it should be ON_QA
2024-08-27 18:52:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, fedora-packager pulls it in now
2024-08-27 18:52:33 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think it's 'done'
2024-08-27 18:53:05 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Oh, it was moved to ON_QA today.
2024-08-27 18:53:07 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> All good.
2024-08-27 18:53:17 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic This Change is ON_QA now
2024-08-27 18:53:25 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> ... Last one:
2024-08-27 18:53:28 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Switch to dnf5
2024-08-27 18:53:43 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SwitchToDnf5
2024-08-27 18:54:03 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think this is done? whats left?
2024-08-27 18:54:11 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> nothing really
2024-08-27 18:54:25 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> even the images built with kiwi now use dnf5
2024-08-27 18:54:38 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and all the artifacts produced on every tool now include dnf5
2024-08-27 18:54:44 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, they were working on history and dist upgrades...
2024-08-27 18:54:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I hope we have that...
2024-08-27 18:55:23 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> proposal: ping maintainers for a update and revisit next week?
2024-08-27 18:55:33 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> but I don't think we want to go back at this point...
2024-08-27 18:56:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm missing some nice-to-have third party plugins like etckeeper, but I suspect those won't be ported *until* a distro ships dnf5
2024-08-27 18:56:38 <@jistone:fedora.im> I guess the update will just shape how much is marketable?
2024-08-27 18:57:03 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah...
2024-08-27 18:57:25 <@jistone:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:57:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1
2024-08-27 18:57:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2024-08-27 18:58:14 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Sure, +1
2024-08-27 18:58:41 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !agreed ping maintainers for a update and revisit next week (+5, 0, -0)
2024-08-27 18:58:50 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Next Week's Chair
2024-08-27 18:59:10 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I think I've covered my chairing responsibility for the next while :)
2024-08-27 18:59:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> jistone gave a cookie to sgallagh. They now have 237 cookies, 12 of which were obtained in the Fedora 40 release cycle
2024-08-27 19:00:01 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Who can take next week?
2024-08-27 19:00:27 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ngompa has already given cookies to sgallagh during the F40 timeframe
2024-08-27 19:00:42 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I can do it.
2024-08-27 19:01:01 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Thank you
2024-08-27 19:01:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> fortunately my flight to Germany is the day after :)
2024-08-27 19:01:29 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !action Conan Kudo to chair the 2024-09-03 meeting
2024-08-27 19:01:36 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Open Floor
2024-08-27 19:02:44 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Going once.
2024-08-27 19:03:11 <@jistone:fedora.im> didn't Michel Lind 🎩 have something earlier?
2024-08-27 19:03:26 <@zodbot:fedora.im> sgallagh gave a cookie to ngompa. They now have 136 cookies, 23 of which were obtained in the Fedora 40 release cycle
2024-08-27 19:03:49 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh yeah
2024-08-27 19:04:06 <@salimma:fedora.im> this release cycle seems a bit... tight, partly because Flock happened just before a lot of deadlines
2024-08-27 19:04:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> uh... how can we make sure this does not happen for f42 and later?
2024-08-27 19:04:57 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, flock might move. ;) (see survey!)
2024-08-27 19:05:11 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> survey? 👀
2024-08-27 19:05:41 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩: Well, we won't have a Flock during F42, so that helps :)
2024-08-27 19:05:47 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, still need to do the Flock survey
2024-08-27 19:05:51 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh true. more a F43 issue
2024-08-27 19:06:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Announcements! 
2024-08-27 19:06:06 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Oh dear, we summoned Justin!
2024-08-27 19:06:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> The survey is super, super important 😉
2024-08-27 19:06:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> otoh if F42 is delayed it's a disaster in the US as we have Thanksgiving :)
2024-08-27 19:06:13 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/your-feedback-matters-flock-to-fedora-2024-post-event-survey/129743
2024-08-27 19:06:34 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> I thought it was a retrospective survey, not something about the future ...
2024-08-27 19:06:50 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> not really clear from the title or announcement 
2024-08-27 19:06:51 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We are testing some new ideas for 2025 in the survey. Even if you did not attend in-person, please complete it as a virtual attendee. 
2024-08-27 19:06:57 <@jflory7:fedora.im> All feedback welcome 🙏🏻
2024-08-27 19:07:10 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/your-feedback-matters-flock-to-fedora-2024-post-event-survey/129743
2024-08-27 19:07:18 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info Please fill out the survey!
2024-08-27 19:07:32 <@zodbot:fedora.im> jflory7 has already given cookies to sgallagh during the F40 timeframe
2024-08-27 19:08:02 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩: Is that a sufficient answer for today? We're over the two hour mark at this point.
2024-08-27 19:09:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah
2024-08-27 19:09:23 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Thanks
2024-08-27 19:09:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm putting the scheduling as feedback for next year :)
2024-08-27 19:09:40 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Alright, thank you for joining us on this epic journey today!
2024-08-27 19:09:49 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !endmeeting