2024-11-12 17:01:18 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !startmeeting FESCO (2024-11-12)

2024-11-12 17:01:18 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-11-12 17:01:18 UTC
2024-11-12 17:01:19 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'FESCO (2024-11-12)'
2024-11-12 17:01:21 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !meetingname fesco
2024-11-12 17:01:22 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now fesco
2024-11-12 17:01:30 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Chairs: @conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @nirik:matrix.scrye.com, @humaton:fedora.im, @zbyszek:fedora.im, @sgallagh:fedora.im, @jistone:fedora.im, @dcantrell:fedora.im, @decathorpe:fedora.im, @salimma:fedora.im
2024-11-12 17:01:33 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !topic Init Process
2024-11-12 17:01:39 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !hi
2024-11-12 17:01:40 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbyszek)
2024-11-12 17:01:40 <@jistone:fedora.im> !hi
2024-11-12 17:01:42 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Josh Stone (jistone) - he / him / his
2024-11-12 17:02:21 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Hmm, maybe it *is* in an hour.
2024-11-12 17:02:31 <@jistone:fedora.im> I think we scheduled in UTC
2024-11-12 17:02:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-11-12 17:02:41 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-11-12 17:02:51 <@humaton:fedora.im> !hi
2024-11-12 17:02:53 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Tomáš Hrčka (humaton) - he / him / his
2024-11-12 17:02:55 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Yeah, apparently it's 17:00 UTC now.
2024-11-12 17:03:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> if most people are in US/EU does it make sense to hold it in UTC? (I wish everything is in UTC, and we all kill daylight saving)
2024-11-12 17:03:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> but if it's earlier for Europe half a year that's nice too, so y'all don't have to take meetings so late in the day
2024-11-12 17:03:58 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !hi
2024-11-12 17:03:58 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Oh, wait, it moves in winter and than stays at 18:00 for a while. Now I remember.
2024-11-12 17:03:59 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his
2024-11-12 17:04:14 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> We have quorum.
2024-11-12 17:04:25 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> We have just one item on the agenda…
2024-11-12 17:04:29 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Sorry I'm late, folks. The Red Hatters in the room probably know why...
2024-11-12 17:04:45 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !topic #3268 Nonresponsive maintainer: Fabian Affolter fab
2024-11-12 17:04:45 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !fesco 3268
2024-11-12 17:05:31 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher: I have no idea. Something to be worried about?
2024-11-12 17:06:15 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> zbyszek: No, I've got it handled.
2024-11-12 17:06:54 <@salimma:fedora.im> do we need something like EPEL's Stalled Request policy? we created that intentionally because the non-responsive process felt a bit heavy handed
2024-11-12 17:07:01 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> The status in the ticket is that there were some +1 votes.
2024-11-12 17:07:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> like, if someone didn't get round to one package, it felt hostile to get them kicked out
2024-11-12 17:07:37 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Yeah,e xactly.
2024-11-12 17:08:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-11-12 17:08:11 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-11-12 17:08:21 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> zbyszek: Zodbot isn't responding to multi-line commands, it seems
2024-11-12 17:08:38 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !fesco 3268
2024-11-12 17:08:38 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Can you split the !topic and !fesco lines?
2024-11-12 17:08:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3268** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3268):**Nonresponsive maintainer: Fabian Affolter fab**
2024-11-12 17:08:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2024-11-12 17:08:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** 2 months ago by fale
2024-11-12 17:08:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 6 hours ago
2024-11-12 17:08:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2024-11-12 17:08:55 <@salimma:fedora.im> huh, I thought that was fixed
2024-11-12 17:09:28 <@humaton:fedora.im> its just the topic keyword
2024-11-12 17:09:34 <@humaton:fedora.im> it need separate line
2024-11-12 17:09:40 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> This is annoying.
2024-11-12 17:10:13 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> In some ways irc was much more usable… Nice tab completion for usernames, easy select&paste.
2024-11-12 17:10:39 <@humaton:fedora.im> lets not go there zbyszek  :)
2024-11-12 17:10:42 <@salimma:fedora.im> tab completion does work if you use at first on Matrix, right? at least with Element and Schildi
2024-11-12 17:10:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> but I do miss IRC a bit... anyway let's not digress there
2024-11-12 17:10:59 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Yeah, let's not digress.
2024-11-12 17:11:21 <@humaton:fedora.im> so checking on the persons activity they seem to be pretty active https://src.fedoraproject.org/user/fab
2024-11-12 17:11:40 <@humaton:fedora.im> it seems they were off during summer? and maybe this PR slipped?
2024-11-12 17:11:43 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> So… I'd be -1 to removing the package ownership from a maintainer who is still active, just not very responsive.
2024-11-12 17:11:54 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I merged the PR to move things along.
2024-11-12 17:12:10 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> this has been a recurring pattern though
2024-11-12 17:12:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> at what point do we reach our limits on this?
2024-11-12 17:12:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah. which is why I probably favor having a lighter weight process in between NRM and just being stalled
2024-11-12 17:13:05 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Can we vote to add a second person as a comaintainer without removing the existing maintainer?
2024-11-12 17:13:23 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> zbyszek: Has someone volunteered to do that?
2024-11-12 17:13:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> that's similar to how the stalled EPEL request process works - after a certain amount of grace time and needinfo, people are allowed to ask releng to get added
2024-11-12 17:14:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> so it'd be nice if it is just made a general policy
2024-11-12 17:14:12 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Yeah, Fabio was interersted in becoming a comaintainer.
2024-11-12 17:14:15 <@jistone:fedora.im> the reporter (fale) offered to comaintain
2024-11-12 17:14:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> but yeah if there is no PR (which provenpackagers can merge) and no one volunteers I'd say we should give the maintainer some slack
2024-11-12 17:15:04 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I think we should just adopt the EPEL stalled request process then.
2024-11-12 17:15:14 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Do you have a link handy?\
2024-11-12 17:15:18 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Do you have a link handy?
2024-11-12 17:15:19 <@salimma:fedora.im> one sec
2024-11-12 17:15:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> !link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/epel/epel-policy/#stalled_epel_requests
2024-11-12 17:16:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> this got tweaked a bit over time, initially it takes 1+1 weeks and now it's 1+2 after some maintainers felt they were bypassed
2024-11-12 17:16:21 <@humaton:fedora.im> I would extend the period to 4 weeks and add regular ticket pings 
2024-11-12 17:16:53 <@humaton:fedora.im> people sometimes just go and travel or are generally offline for more that 2 weeks
2024-11-12 17:17:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, for updates to the Fedora side, rather than introducing a new build for a new branch, I think we can be extra cautious
2024-11-12 17:17:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> file a bug, ping after a week, needinfo after 2 weeks, and escalate after a month? how does that sound
2024-11-12 17:18:01 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Sounds good.
2024-11-12 17:18:06 <@humaton:fedora.im> yup 
2024-11-12 17:18:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> me trying to remember how to propose things
2024-11-12 17:18:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> !help
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2024-11-12 17:18:46 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> OK, so to move this along, Michel Lind 🎩 UTC-5 would you make a PR for the Fesco policy docs… We should then propose this on fedora-devel and hopefully, approve and merge.
2024-11-12 17:18:55 <@salimma:fedora.im> sure
2024-11-12 17:19:11 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/fesco/fesco-docs
2024-11-12 17:19:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> alloting today to doing docs updates anyway
2024-11-12 17:19:42 <@salimma:fedora.im> !action Michel Lind 🍥 UTC-5 to put up a PR for a stalled request process
2024-11-12 17:20:20 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩 UTC-5++, thanks.
2024-11-12 17:20:22 <@zodbot:fedora.im> zbyszek gave a cookie to salimma. They now have 48 cookies, 2 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle
2024-11-12 17:20:30 <@zodbot:fedora.im> jistone gave a cookie to salimma. They now have 49 cookies, 3 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle
2024-11-12 17:20:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> humaton gave a cookie to salimma. They now have 50 cookies, 4 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle
2024-11-12 17:20:53 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> OK, and then we can test the policy on this ticket. Let's leave it open fo rnow.
2024-11-12 17:20:56 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !topic Next week's chair
2024-11-12 17:21:04 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Volunteers?
2024-11-12 17:21:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'll update the ticket so people know what's going on
2024-11-12 17:21:49 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I can do it next week; it might be my last availability to do so in 2024
2024-11-12 17:22:07 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !action Stephen Gallagher will chair the next meeting.
2024-11-12 17:22:08 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Thanks
2024-11-12 17:22:14 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !topic Open Floor
2024-11-12 17:22:36 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I see lots of things happening but nothing major on fire…
2024-11-12 17:23:18 <@zodbot:fedora.im> salimma has already given cookies to sgallagh during the F41 timeframe
2024-11-12 17:24:08 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> OK, let's wrap this up then.
2024-11-12 17:24:21 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> If nobody has anything, I'll close in a minute.
2024-11-12 17:24:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> sgallagh gave a cookie to zbyszek. They now have 136 cookies, 1 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle
2024-11-12 17:24:44 <@jistone:fedora.im> do we need to start the election process?
2024-11-12 17:24:46 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> (Or is it "nobody has nothing"?)
2024-11-12 17:25:26 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> 6 	Selection of questions from Questionnaire - end 	Wed 2024-11-27 	Wed 2024-11-27 	0
2024-11-12 17:25:26 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> 7 	Nomination period - end 	Wed 2024-11-27 	Wed 2024-11-27 	0
2024-11-12 17:25:26 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> 4 	Nomination period 	Wed 2024-11-13 	Wed 2024-11-27 	14
2024-11-12 17:25:26 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> 5 	Nomination period - start 	Wed 2024-11-13 	Wed 2024-11-13 	0
2024-11-12 17:25:41 <@jistone:fedora.im> ah, thanks
2024-11-12 17:25:51 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !link https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-41/f-41-elections-tasks.html
2024-11-12 17:26:01 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> zbyszek: You were correct the first time. The second time, the double-negative is ambiguous.
2024-11-12 17:26:07 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> So apparently the nomination period starts tomorrow.
2024-11-12 17:26:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> so many elections :)
2024-11-12 17:26:25 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> But it *sounds* better, no?
2024-11-12 17:26:37 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> No
2024-11-12 17:26:40 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> ;-)
2024-11-12 17:26:52 <@humaton:fedora.im> For slavic people it does
2024-11-12 17:26:59 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> OK, I take your word.
2024-11-12 17:27:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> we don't need no double negation :)
2024-11-12 17:27:11 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Yeah, we even have double positives that tint negative ;)
2024-11-12 17:27:26 <@humaton:fedora.im> yup that ^^
2024-11-12 17:27:51 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> OK, I think we're veering offtopic.
2024-11-12 17:27:57 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> See y'all next week.
2024-11-12 17:28:03 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !endmeeting