<@fale:fale.io>
17:00:57
!startmeeting FESCO (2025-01-28)
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:01:00
Meeting started at 2025-01-28 17:00:57 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:01:00
The Meeting name is 'FESCO (2025-01-28)'
<@fale:fale.io>
17:01:01
!meetingname fesco
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:01:03
The Meeting Name is now fesco
<@fale:fale.io>
17:01:08
Chairs: @conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @nirik:matrix.scrye.com, @humaton:fedora.im, @zbyszek:fedora.im, @sgallagh:fedora.im, @fale:fale.io, @dcantrell:fedora.im, @decathorpe:fedora.im, @salimma:fedora.im
<@fale:fale.io>
17:01:18
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:01:21
Fabio Alessandro Locati (fale) - he / him / his
<@humaton:fedora.im>
17:01:24
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:01:25
Tomáš Hrčka (humaton) - he / him / his
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:01:47
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:01:48
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbyszek)
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:02:46
morning
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:03:09
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:03:10
Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:03:25
Hi folks! I'm here lurking :)
<@fale:fale.io>
17:03:50
Thanks Aoife :)
<@fale:fale.io>
17:04:00
We have a quorum, so we can start
<@fale:fale.io>
17:04:13
!topic #3293 Change: Dropping of cert.pem file
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:05:31
Umm there's a way to get zodbot to send the link too right
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:05:38
!fesco 3293
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:05:39
● **Assignee:** fkrenzel
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:05:39
● **Last Updated:** 10 hours ago
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:05:39
● **Opened:** a month ago by amoloney
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:05:39
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:05:39
**fesco #3293** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3293):**Change: Dropping of cert.pem file**
<@fale:fale.io>
17:05:44
I voted -1. I think that it is a little late for F42 given that the impacted packages list is not known. IMHO should be shifted to F43 to give enough time to everyone to fix potential issues
<@fale:fale.io>
17:05:59
(thanks Michael :))
<@fale:fale.io>
17:06:05
(thanks Michel :))
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:06:29
I'd be ok with that... are the change owners? I guess they asked in ticket...
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:06:40
I agree that it would be better to apply this change in early rawhide rather than a week before branching
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:06:46
It doesn't seem ready yet, yeah
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:08:03
If that's the only concern, do we want to approve it for f43 or ask them to flesh out the remaining details first?
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:08:59
I went through the bugzilla tickets, and there's a reply in one (from Miro, that they are aware and waiting for FESCo decision), but no answer in the other tickets. Looks like the maintainers haven't had time to reply. (Or there are no maintainers :( )
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:09:30
It's possible that this is all doable in a day or two of work. But it's hard to say from the outside, since patching some code seems necessary.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:10:05
well, I think there will be a bunch of little things that get broken by it... many of them not packages.... that's just going to take time and adjusting.
<@fale:fale.io>
17:10:19
I agree with nirik
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:10:28
but I am +1 to it for f43 (and hopefully landing soon after branching in rawhide)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:10:56
+1 for f43 too
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:11:38
+1 for 43 too. I could be persuaded for F42 too, but somebody would need to figure out the scope more closely.
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:12:06
+1 for F43, remaining /0 for F42
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:12:10
If the change owners are fine with F43, then that's certainly safer.
<@fale:fale.io>
17:12:40
the change owner asked "Should we change the target to 43 now?", so I guess they are ok with that
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:13:07
Yep.
<@fale:fale.io>
17:13:34
So we are +5,0,0 on approving it for F43, it seems like
<@humaton:fedora.im>
17:14:34
+1 from meas wel
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:14:54
That's everyone we have today right
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:15:05
Neal is at the hotel room, but he just arrived
<@fale:fale.io>
17:15:07
!agreed APPROVED for F43 (+6, 0, -0)
<@fale:fale.io>
17:15:52
!topic #3343 Change: Trafficserver 10.0
<@fale:fale.io>
17:16:07
!fesco 3343
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:16:10
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:16:10
**fesco #3343** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3343):**Change: Trafficserver 10.0**
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:16:10
● **Assignee:** jered
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:16:10
● **Last Updated:** an hour ago
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:16:10
● **Opened:** a week ago by amoloney
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:16:15
This one was hashed out in the ticket too.
<@fale:fale.io>
17:16:45
I see a -1 from sgallagh
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:17:18
Stephen Gallagher made a procedural -1, but than he drove the discussion in the discussion thread and everything was clarified.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:17:18
I was waiting for that to be hashed out, now that it's done I am +1
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:17:38
Too bad Stephen is not here to undo his -1 - maybe ping him?
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:17:54
I think we should just overvote Stephen since he's not here.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:18:06
We have just enough quorum to do that.
<@fale:fale.io>
17:18:38
I'm +1
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:18:56
+1 🔨
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:19:13
No....
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:19:29
Michel Lind 🎩🇧🇪 UTC+1 until Feb 4: we need your vote!
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:19:52
I did
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:20:01
+1
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:20:01
Ah, right.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:20:11
jednorozec
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:20:29
We're down one but we do have 5
<@humaton:fedora.im>
17:20:39
+ 1
<@fale:fale.io>
17:20:44
!agreed APPROVED (+6, 0, -0)
<@fale:fale.io>
17:20:55
!topic Next week's chair
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:21:16
I think I'll miss the next meeting.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:21:24
Same
<@fale:fale.io>
17:21:29
same here
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:21:45
I'll be in the air - well I might join from the plane if I'm not transiting
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
17:22:03
Sorry folks, my power is out.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:22:38
Stephen, don't worry, we … overpowered your negative vote.
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
17:22:49
I just realized I could join by my phone
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:23:18
Ask Stephen to vote now? Technically if he did not revote it's 6/-1 right
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:23:42
I am off by 10 mins, still on the train. But I guess we're done soon
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:24:10
Ah, right, the "APPROVED" tally was wrong.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:24:18
If there's time for an open floor I have 2-3 v quick items
<@fale:fale.io>
17:24:34
how can we change zodbot tally?
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
17:24:48
I can revote +1 now on traffic server, but it’s passed anyway.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:25:14
There's no undo with the Matrix bot, so just edit the summary in the email.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:25:18
Fale: no way, but you can add another one for the minutes.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:25:33
I don't think you can, you might be best to do an !agreed after revoting on ticket #whatever, the vote now stands at <something>
<@fale:fale.io>
17:25:54
so re-open the topic, and re-adding the agreed?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:26:45
sure
<@fale:fale.io>
17:26:51
!topic #3343 Change: Trafficserver 10.0
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:26:53
I'd just do an agreed statement and specify the ticket number in it for posterity, but that's just my suggestion :)
<@fale:fale.io>
17:27:10
!agreed APPROVED after re-voting (+7, 0, -0)
<@fale:fale.io>
17:27:32
!topic Next week's chair
<@fale:fale.io>
17:28:00
any candidates for next week chair?
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:28:39
is there something we still need to vote on today? otherwise I'll have to leave
<@fale:fale.io>
17:28:56
no more votes, we only have next chair and open floor
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:29:10
Aoife had items.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:29:22
If Fabio and I leave we won't have quorum .. oh we do, Stephen is here
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:29:30
I did last week, but I suppose I can do next week if no one else wants it.
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:29:57
I'm only getting home Monday night, so I'd rather not ;(
<@fale:fale.io>
17:30:02
!action nirik will chair next meeting
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:30:06
Mine are not voting items, just more fyi's and 'food for thought' items
<@fale:fale.io>
17:30:33
!topic Open Floor
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:30:45
fale gave a cookie to kevin. They now have 711 cookies, 19 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:31:00
Excellent :)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:31:24
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:31:26
Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:31:27
1. Reminder that flock to fedora cfp is now open and details of the event have been announced!
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:31:54
Re: themes - the council have made some slight iterations on the themes on the cfp page to try to make them a bit more relatable
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:31:55
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:32:01
Wait, no.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:32:34
We also plan to publish a little blog on tips and tricks on how you could relate your talk suggestion to a theme ... With examples 😁
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:32:52
The website is unfortunately not updated yet but hopefully that'll be corrected by next week
<@fale:fale.io>
17:33:10
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:33:59
Thank you both for the links ☺️
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:34:42
2. Could fesco members find some time to vote on any change issues opened please? I'm watching them like a hawk to get trackers assigned to them as soon as you have all had a chance to vote
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:35:05
Final item then:
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:35:38
3. Council is having a f2f next week and our agenda goals are drafted in the wiki https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Council/2025_Hackfest#Goals
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:36:29
FESCo and council should work more closely together, and we don't for whatever reasons. It's been a topic amongst council members that we really need to address this somehow
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:36:46
It won't happen overnight, so this is the 'food for thought' part!
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:37:19
How would you all like to work better together?
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:38:36
I'd love it if you all could think on this and we could maybe try to bridge a few gaps we have found between us. We are after all two halves of the same coin (coin being fedora in this instance) :)
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:39:05
At a minimum, feedback on what's important for FESCo that the council work on next week would be amazing
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:39:44
If there's nothing on that goals list, please add it! If that list looks ok to you all, but there's space for FESCo to be more involved in as leaders and drivers, please tell us!
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:40:05
I think FESCo is (usually) very public with what we're working on, while council feels more "behind closed doors", even if that's not necessarily true. I don't know if there's a mailing list that I don't know about, but for me it's always difficult to tell what the council is doing 😅
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:40:12
That's all, and thanks for giving me space in this meeting to chat to you
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:40:54
and there are liaison persons but I have no idea what their purpose is to be honest
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:41:48
my 2¢
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:41:58
now I'm gone whoosh
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:42:28
Perhaps quarterly meetings with both bodies... but I know thats really hard time wise
<@fale:fale.io>
17:42:42
I have similar feeling to Fabio. Maybe I've not followed the "right channels". I'm discovering now about the f2f meeting, so definitely I've missed some channels :D
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:42:58
I've followed Council stuff for a while
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:43:09
but honestly, that doesn't change my opinion from Fabio, really
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:43:29
if anything, I feel like it's been reinforced from watching that
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:43:50
decision making with the Council feels "predetermined" by the time we see it
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:44:46
Sorry my phone died, scrolling back now
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:45:05
to be fair I kinda feel that way about any of the groups that just do video meetings that I am not in. ;)
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:45:09
So thank you for being honest, I appreciate it
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:45:31
it's hard to distill that into a way other people could easily consume
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:45:31
More transparency is what I'm hearing to take into consideration
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:45:58
We have a topic on 'how we work', so that's valuable feedback to have from our peer group
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:46:11
nirik: even with the text meetings, I feel like Council meetings are "pro forma"
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:47:12
for me the text meetings are much nicer, but it's hard to keep up on everything anymore.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:47:32
I like the idea of a quarterly sync of some description too
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:48:51
Re the liaison role, I do wonder if there is too much 'stuff' that we (council and fesco) should be collaborating more on that is fair for one person to shoulder or act as proxy between grouos
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:48:52
As a smaller step, maybe we should have a roundtable during Flock, just to sit down and discuss topics.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:49:01
FESCo and Council.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:49:05
Love that idea
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:49:15
Re the liaison role, I do wonder if there is too much 'stuff' that we (council and fesco) should be collaborating more on that is fair for one person to shoulder or act as proxy between groups
<@fale:fale.io>
17:49:32
I like the idea of the roundtable
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:51:19
Anyway I won't take up any more of your time with this, this is a light feedback gathering exercise for me and something id like us to definitely revisit, but please do share your feedback on the councils goals for our f2f if you have any
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:51:22
we'll have to check ahead of time with the venue if they have one. ;)
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:51:38
We have a matrix chat room where I shared the link to the wiki as well
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
17:52:01
Thanks for accommodating me Fale: !
<@fale:fale.io>
17:52:15
thanks you :)
<@fale:fale.io>
17:52:21
any other open floor topics?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:53:21
!info branching is next week... make sure you are ready for it.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:54:43
I sent out an email about converting to sysusers using a massive bunch of pull requests.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:55:00
Please take a look at the proposal.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:55:40
I think I figured out how to deal with the remaining ~20 packages, so I'd like to proceed with the change after FOSDEM.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:56:16
before branching? or will cherry pick after if needed?
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:56:38
That's a good point. I didn't think about this.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:58:01
I think I should wait until after the branch.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:58:29
Branch Fedora Linux 42 from Rawhide Tue 2025-02-04
<@fale:fale.io>
17:58:48
+1 on waiting after branching
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:59:14
then it needs doing in 2 places? or only rawhide?
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:59:31
I wouldn't be able to realistically do this so soon anyway, so the answer is easy.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:59:39
Only in rawhide I guess.
<@fale:fale.io>
18:00:27
so it's going to move to F43?
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
18:01:25
Changes/RPMSuportForSystemdSysusers is actually mostly done.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
18:01:40
This is a follow-up that wasn't discussed in the Change process.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
18:03:14
Well, OK, that was an overstatement. Of the parts in the Change proposal, 1 was discarded, 2 is moot without 1, 3 was sidestepped by changing to a different backend. But conceptually, it's done :----[]
<@fale:fale.io>
18:03:49
any more open floor topics?
<@fale:fale.io>
18:04:20
feels like we also lost majority of people, so we might as well close
<@fale:fale.io>
18:04:38
!endmeeting