#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:00:50

!startmeeting FESCO (2025-02-04)

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:00:52

Meeting started at 2025-02-04 17:00:50 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:00:52

The Meeting name is 'FESCO (2025-02-04)'

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:01:05

!meetingname fesco

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:01:05

Chairs: @conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @nirik:matrix.scrye.com, @humaton:fedora.im, @zbyszek:fedora.im, @sgallagh:fedora.im, @fale:fale.io, @dcantrell:fedora.im, @decathorpe:fedora.im, @salimma:fedora.im

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:01:05

!topic Init Process

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:01:05

The Meeting Name is now fesco

<@fale:fale.io>

17:01:11

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:01:14

Fabio Alessandro Locati (fale) - he / him / his

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:01:26

who all fesco folks are around? we may not have quorum today due to people traveling from fosdem, etc.

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:02:04

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:02:05

Tomáš Hrčka (humaton) - he / him / his

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:02:56

well, thats 3... :) will wait a few more...

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:02:59

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:03:01

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:03:18

I'm kind of here, but I'm not counting on being able to stay.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:03:54

I'm probably going to lose in flight Wi-Fi soon as I'm close to the end of my flight.

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:04:01

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:04:02

Fabio Valentini (decathorpe) - he / him / his

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

17:04:36

I'm joining, ahem, lurking from sunny Seville :)

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:04:57

left Brussels yesterday, but Brussels has not left me yet 🤧

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:05:11

Thats 5... at least for a few?

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:05:20

should we go on, or just call it for this week?

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:05:44

is there something urgent?

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:06:18

there's two items...

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:06:20

#3356 Change: Switch to EROFS for Live Media

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:06:24

│#3358 Change: Deprecate Zezere Provisioning Server (IoT)

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:06:31

I don't think either are super urgent

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:06:46

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:06:47

Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:07:03

Sorry for being late

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:07:17

ok, lets move forward then ?

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:07:37

!topic #3356 Change: Switch to EROFS for Live Media

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:07:44

!fesco 3356

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:07:46

● **Last Updated:** 15 hours ago

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:07:46

**fesco #3356** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3356):**Change: Switch to EROFS for Live Media**

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:07:46

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:07:46

● **Assignee:** ngompa

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:07:46

● **Opened:** a week ago by amoloney

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:08:09

zbyszek was -1 in ticket... but is not here today...

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:08:15

ha. ;)

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:08:22

so, we could just defer this one to next week?

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:09:17

!info will defer to next meeting

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:09:22

!topic #3358 Change: Deprecate Zezere Provisioning Server (IoT)

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:09:27

!fesco 3358

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:09:29

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:09:29

● **Last Updated:** 15 hours ago

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:09:29

● **Assignee:** pwhalen

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:09:29

● **Opened:** a week ago by amoloney

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:09:29

**fesco #3358** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3358):**Change: Deprecate Zezere Provisioning Server (IoT)**

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:09:49

This change is confusing to me.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:09:50

Stephen Gallagher was -1 to this one.

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:10:32

I'm not really happy about removing what is basically the only reasonable headless install mechanism without a replacement.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:10:42

There's a lot of different ways to install...

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:10:47

But if they're not going to maintain it anyway, keeping it around is probably not great either.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:11:07

well, Ignition or the Fedora ARM installer script should work for headless installs no?

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:11:14

nirik: If it's headless, your choice is Zezere or an extremely complicated and largely undocumented FDO setup

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:11:58

nirik: I can't speak for Ignition, but fedora-arm-installer will need a display to use the firstboot app

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:12:05

Ignition is very painful to use for remote bare metal deploys

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:12:11

pwhalen (ping in case you happen to be around for this discussion)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:12:52

I still shiver over doing OKD deployments because of how complex it is to get the FCOS nodes up

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:13:05

From a practical perspective, I recognize that the team doesn't want to maintain Zezere and so it's going to bit-rot. I just want to be on record as not being happy about it.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:13:31

Inflicting that on FIoT would not be awesome

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:13:59

There is very little new-user documentation available for IoT and Zezere is the minimum-effort approach we have to try it out right now

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:14:14

yeah, I guess the thing that would be nice to come out of this is a better headless install story/documentation... ?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:14:34

Or at least an equivalent one

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:15:44

so, shall we vote on this? or do we want to discuss more with change owners?

<@fale:fale.io>

17:16:23

on the change or the proposal to ask for a better headless install story?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:17:18

I'm about to lose Wi-Fi service so I will be dropping now.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:17:33

Conan Kudo: safe travels!

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

17:17:48

Should there be explicit buy-in from iot if it's going to affect them the most?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:17:55

Thanks

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:18:30

keep in mind that we can't force people to do things... ;) we can reject changes (but in this case it would mean a unmaintained service keeps running) we can ask politely for changes...

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:18:30

Aoife Moloney: I don't understand the question. Buy-in for what?

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:19:34

proposal: approve change, but note that we would really like a better headless install/story if at all possible

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

17:20:01

Sorry, to rephrase: would it be better for you (fesco) to accept or the change with a condition (or request) that fedora iot is engaged with the change?

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:20:21

the change is actually from iot folks. ;)

<@amoloney:fedora.im>

17:20:48

Ha sorry I'll stay in my lane so :D

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:21:07

I am just afraid when approved, we will end-up without a way to provision IoT 42 and universe will collapse

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:21:13

although perhaps thats not very clear from the change itself

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:23:37

jednorozec well, or we can provision, but the service starts being insecure/bad.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:23:47

so, no great answer without another way

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:23:59

yup

<@fale:fale.io>

17:24:32

also, at least in certain cases, zezere lays around, so it would be way suboptimal to have such a service insecure

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:25:18

I dont see much alternatve right now to just approving the change... but we could wait and discuss more with change owners if there's another way

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:25:36

Approve and note about the story?

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:25:49

yeah, that was my proposal...

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:25:56

proposal: approve change, but note that we would really like a better headless install/story if at all possible

<@fale:fale.io>

17:26:36

I'm +1

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:28:00

With Neal gone, we don't have quorum to pass this if I vote -1, do we?

<@fale:fale.io>

17:28:57

Neal was "tentatively +1" in the ticket

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:29:53

nope. ;)

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:29:55

I guess I'll hold my nose and vote +1, then.

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:30:07

<@sgallagh:fedora.im>

17:30:30

I know that this would pass if we had more of a quorum, so a protest vote won't change the outcome.

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:31:11

but I am concerned about the IoT provisioning story

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:31:13

so thats +5 with the 'tenatively +1' from the ticket?

<@fale:fale.io>

17:32:11

Not sure if we still have Fabio Valentini around

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:33:36

!agreed change approved, but note that we would really like a better headless install/story if at all possible (+5,0,0)

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:34:14

!topic Next week's chair

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:34:21

who wants it?

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:34:53

I can

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:36:32

!action jednorozec will chair next meeting

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:36:36

Thanks

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:36:42

!topic Open Floor

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:38:27

anything for open floor?

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:38:31

if not will close in a min

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:39:48

ok, thanks everyone!

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:39:50

!endmeeting