14:01:02 <lorip> #startmeeting
14:01:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri May  3 14:01:02 2013 UTC.  The chair is lorip. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:18 <lorip> I just started the meetbot that will log our session.
14:01:34 <lorip> Let's start with introductions.
14:01:42 <lorip> #topic Introductions
14:01:59 <ghislop> If you look at the list of users in the channel, "zodbot" is the meetbot doing the logging.
14:02:42 <lorip> Just a sentence of who & where you are would be great.  Let's do it alphabetically, bcoleman, can you start?
14:02:57 <ghislop> When Lori ends the meeting, zodbot will post messages with links to a log of the meeting and a summary.
14:03:02 <bcoleman> I am Ben Coleman, and I teach at Moravian College in Bethlehem, PA
14:03:23 <ghislop> camm?
14:03:26 <lorip> oops, I forgot to post the link to the meeting agenda
14:03:33 <ghislop> :-)
14:03:36 <lorip> #link www.foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_1
14:04:09 <ghislop> camm might be away from his keyboard.
14:04:25 <lorip> esmail?
14:04:28 <esmail> hello all, I'm at Dominican U in Chicago and looking forward to learning about HFOSS (and in the midst of grading/ wrapping up the semester)
14:05:00 <ghislop> darci has marked herself as away (in my client, chatzilla, being awayshows up as a nick name in italics)
14:05:18 <camm> I'm Cam Macdonell, from Grant MacEwan University (Edmonton, AB, Canada)
14:05:41 <ghislop> I'm Greg Hislop from Drexel... in the middle of a quarter here... and doing local arrangements for the POSSE stage 2; member of the OpenFE team
14:06:08 <ghislop> heidie may be away
14:06:16 <ghislop> howardf?
14:06:37 <howardf> Hi, I'm Howard Francis from the University of Pikeville in Pikeville, KY
14:06:57 <lorip> I'm Lori Postner from Nassau Community College in Garden City, NY - I'm a member of the OpenFE team
14:07:03 <nnapier> Hi this is Nannette Napier from Georgia Gwinnett College in Lawrenceville, just north of Atlanta
14:07:44 <ghislop> Note that heidie is now also marked as away.  the "afk" suffix is for "away from keyboard"
14:07:54 <lorip> pnutzh4x0r?
14:08:24 <pnutzh4x0r> i already participated on Monday
14:08:35 <pnutzh4x0r> just idling right now
14:08:40 <rebelsky> I guess it's my turn, then.  Hi all.  My name is Sam Rebelsky.  I tend to go by SamR.  I teach at Grinnell College in Iowa.  I've been an HFOSS/POSSE "lurker" for a number of years.  I've been to at least one SIGCSE workshop and at least one SIGCSE pre-conference symposium. (Sorry, started typing once Lori said "Let's start with introductions" and kept typing.)
14:08:47 <ghislop> Lurking is always welcome!
14:09:17 <pnutzh4x0r> but im Peter Bui, CS, University of Wisconsin - Eau Claire
14:09:26 <ghislop> Great!  thanks all.  Glad everyone could make it!
14:09:26 <lorip> no apologies - thanks for the info!
14:09:33 <rebelsky> ghislop / lorip / heidie - Will we get links to transcripts of the other two meetings, too?
14:09:46 <ghislop> yes
14:10:04 <ghislop> all the transcripts are in one directory, so if you have one link you can just click on the others
14:10:11 <lorip> #topic IRC commands
14:10:29 <lorip> are people familiar with common IRC commands?
14:10:37 * howardf is
14:10:39 <rebelsky> Mostly
14:10:41 * lorip thinking, I'm learning
14:10:44 <esmail> so so ...
14:10:49 <bcoleman> no
14:10:50 <ghislop> As we go along, please feel free to ask questions...
14:10:52 <nnapier> I'm so so as well
14:10:58 <ghislop> and to answer them as well!
14:11:33 <lorip> there are some listed on the meeting agenda - such as how to change your nick and specify when you are away
14:11:59 <nnapier> agenda is helpful
14:12:08 <lorip> the one I'm still not sure about is how to get their attention - do I have to do something other than put in a nick?
14:12:13 <camm> a /me command is used to show what you're doing/thinking rather than contributing to the conversation
14:12:39 <rebelsky> Are you okay if we try some of the commands even if they are potentially distracting?
14:12:43 <camm> lorip: clients will notify you when your nick is mentioned
14:12:45 <lorip> please do!
14:12:57 <lorip> camm so this work?
14:12:57 <ghislop> if you include a nick in a posting, most IRC clients will do something to attract the person's attention
14:13:03 * rebelsky Wonders how distracting this is.
14:13:04 * nnapier testing the me to see what it looks like
14:13:06 <camm> yes, that highlights for me
14:13:07 <ghislop> e.g., different colors or flashing icons...
14:13:18 * esmail I'm watching you :)
14:13:32 <ghislop> PattiO: Welcome!
14:13:38 <PattiO> Hi!
14:13:38 <lorip> camm - why didn't your me command look different?  is it because it was preceded by a character?
14:14:01 <ghislop> PattiO: we've just done introductions... can you provide a quick intro?
14:14:07 <nnapier> the me command from camm was listed in italics in ChatZilla
14:14:17 <lorip> Hi PattiO - welcome - would you be willing to introduce yourself quickly?
14:14:24 * ghislop is happy to see Patti because I know she's been stuck in an airport
14:14:35 <camm> lorip: I didn't run a /me yet
14:14:39 <PattiO> Sure... I am Patti Ordonez from the University of Puerto Rico.
14:14:40 * camm gets coffee
14:14:46 <camm> now I did
14:14:51 <lorip> camm but you put it in the text - why didn't it pick it up?
14:15:01 <PattiO> I am an Assistant Professor in ComputerScience
14:15:10 <camm> lorip: it must be the first command on a line
14:15:21 * lorip I get it!
14:15:29 <ghislop> lorip: commands have to start with the /  putting /me in the line isn't a command
14:15:41 <nnapier> so why use the /me again?
14:16:01 <rebelsky> nnapier: I think it's so that people can see that it's a side comment.
14:16:04 <camm> to indicate what you're thinking or doing, rather than a direct contribution to the conversation
14:16:06 <ghislop> nnapier: using /me provides a way to make a parenthetical comment
14:16:41 <nnapier> ok - thanks
14:17:01 * ghislop is smiling... three pretty good but different definitions for /me!
14:17:02 * PattiO the only good thing about being stuck is being able to join the irc
14:17:20 <lorip> what is the difference between using /away and adding _afk to your nick?
14:17:22 <ghislop> PattiO: so you're still at the airport?  not on the plane?
14:17:31 <nannette> lorip: great question
14:17:47 <rebelsky> ghislop Can you tell us a bit about the chatbot conventions (#action and company)?
14:17:52 <PattiO> yes... I wasn't able to get on standby on the next flight
14:17:59 <ghislop> lorip: if you use /away you can provide a message like "back in 5 minutes"  with just changing your nick you can't
14:18:00 <howardf> :(
14:18:08 <lorip> PattiO are you at least somewhere good?
14:18:26 <esmail> PattiO: sorry to hear that ...
14:18:38 <lorip> howardf how did you get the emoticon?
14:18:50 <howardf> i just typed a : ( without a space in between
14:18:52 <PattiO> * lorip I am at BWI
14:19:10 <ghislop> rebelsky: the # commands mostly determine what goes into the summary of the meeting
14:19:22 <lorip> does it translate to an image in all chat clients?
14:19:34 <ghislop> rebelsky: here's a pointer to meetbot doc:  http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
14:19:39 <howardf> i don't know… i didn't even know it was going to do that in mine
14:19:42 <ghislop> #link http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
14:19:46 <nannette> lorip: yes in Chatzilla
14:19:59 <ghislop> the #link will put the link in a special section of the meeting summary
14:20:05 <rebelsky> lorip, yes in Colloquy
14:20:06 <lorip> nannette I'm using ChatZilla as well
14:20:27 <PattiO> how are people addressing me directly?
14:20:50 <esmail> is there a good plugin for chrome? I'm currently using HydraIRC as recommended - just curious.
14:20:55 <ghislop> to address a particular person, include their nick in the comment
14:21:05 <lorip> just type in the person's nick - when you wrote lorip before it made a noise to alert me
14:21:15 <camm> esmail: there's a freenode client for Chrome I believe
14:21:29 <ghislop> PattiO: you can also type enough letters to be unique and then hit tab on most clients and it will autocomplete the nick
14:21:34 <nannette> Is there a way to start a "private" conversation
14:21:40 <camm> #link https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/freenode-irc/nhkcfbkpodjkallcfebgihcoglfaniep?hl=en
14:21:45 <esmail> thanks camm, I'll look into it
14:21:51 <rebelsky> nannette you can use slash msg
14:21:54 <PattiO> ghislop: So this is going to you?
14:22:05 * howardf has an aside question about HydraIRC: Is there a way to save setting (like identities, scripts, etc)?
14:22:08 <ghislop> nannette: yes, you can start a private chat if both clients are set up to allow it
14:22:33 <camm> you can also use /query to start a private window
14:22:48 <nannette> reblsky helped me. What's the difference between /query and /msg
14:22:55 <ghislop> PattiO: your comment to me goes in the log for everyone to see, but my client flashes to alert me if I'm not in this channel
14:23:23 <PattiO> ok..
14:23:51 <lorip> so once I've set up a private chat, how do I get out of that without quitting everything?
14:24:00 <PattiO> ghislop: so the private conversations are with a particular person in the irc session?
14:24:02 <camm> /wc
14:24:07 <camm> ^ lorip
14:24:36 * camm is currently private message anyone who mentions it
14:24:57 * rebelsky would like camm to private message
14:24:59 <nannette> the /wc didn't seem to work for me
14:25:19 <lorip> it didn't work for me either - it said it wasn't recognized
14:25:27 <camm> hmmm, maybe that's for my client
14:25:33 <camm> /close ?
14:25:49 <nannette> That didn't work :(
14:25:52 <PattiO> camm: /wc
14:25:55 * ghislop notes that he finds it difficult to be in a channel like this and have private chat open too... gets confusing to type into the right window!
14:26:06 <lorip> I right clicked and closed...
14:26:24 <camm> ya, if you have a gui-based client you can do that
14:26:35 * lorip thinking... is it time to change topics?
14:26:50 <ghislop> for the GUI clients there are often menus that provide many of the /commands
14:26:57 * ghislop agrees
14:27:14 <lorip> #topic Discussion of HFOSS projects
14:27:34 <esmail> quick question, I'm using hydraIRC, should I get a special signal if anyone uses my nickname? it just looks like regular text, so easy to miss ... anything I need to set?
14:27:40 <lorip> I don't know if you've had a chance to look at the HFOSS projects yet - here's the link
14:27:48 <rebelsky> #link http://www.foss2serve.org/index.php/HFOSS_Communities
14:28:02 <lorip> thanks rebelsky
14:28:21 <lorip> any ones in particular that sound interesting?
14:28:28 <lorip> questions?
14:28:57 <rebelsky> I'm debating between Ushahidi and OpenMRS.  I'm having trouble understanding whether Ushahidi is intended to be general, or really focuses on trafficking.
14:29:04 <ghislop> esmail: I don't know the answer for hydraIRC... anyone else using that client?
14:29:17 <howardf> I've narrowed my list down to two… OpenMRS and sahana-eden
14:29:30 <esmail> is there another windows client you'd recommend? I just went with the suggestion on the wiki ..
14:29:31 <nannette> I have been interested in Sahana for a while -- but frankly intimidated by its complexity
14:29:36 <lorip> camm are you willing to talk about ushahidi?
14:29:38 <ghislop> camm has worked with Ushahidi, but my impression is that it's general
14:29:45 <camm> sure
14:29:52 <camm> #link https://uchaguzi.co.ke/
14:29:59 <bcoleman> This is an incredibly slow way to communicate.  Why hasn't the FOSS community moved to video conferencing?
14:30:00 <camm> ^ click that to start
14:30:28 <ghislop> bcoleman: that would be a good question to discuss when we're here in Phila.
14:30:29 * nannette bcoleman: agree. Would love to hear camm talk about stuff
14:30:30 <esmail> bcoleman .. I agree it's slow, but it's also low bandwidth and probably more easily accessible around the world
14:30:40 <camm> bcoleman: IRC keeps a history better than video conference and doesn't require everyone to be immediately present
14:31:03 <camm> plus, it's free, which is important for FOSS projects
14:31:04 <howardf> i'm really interested in what sahana-eden is all about… but it looks like it's in python, and i have very minimal python skills (of course, this would be a good excuse to improve those, huh)
14:31:09 <nannette> there could be a secretary or scribe like at most meetings
14:31:28 <camm> I teach a senior-level SE course and for the last/only two runs of the course I have had my students work on hacking projcts from Ushahidi
14:31:31 <camm> #link www.ushahidi.com
14:31:54 <camm> Ushahidi is a web-app that is used for crisis mapping
14:31:54 <camm> it has been used in the Haitian Earthquake, Hurricane Sandy and election monitoring, most recently in Kenya
14:31:57 <camm> the Uchaguzi link is the most recent Kenyan election
14:31:59 <camm> There are 1000s of deployments of Ushahidi around the world
14:32:00 <PattiO> I am interested in GNOME Accessibility and OpenMRS
14:32:30 <camm> It is written in PHP and runs on a typical web-server software stack, sometimes called a LAMP stack
14:32:35 * howardf is glad to see he's not the only one debating between two choices
14:32:36 <PattiO> very cool...
14:32:42 <ghislop> PattiO: Joanie Diggs, the co-lead of Gnome Accessibility will be attending the stage 2 workshop
14:33:03 <esmail> I'm interested in Ushahidi and Sahana
14:33:16 <camm> When I met the OpenFS team I learned there are 3000 deployments of Ushahidi in the US alone
14:33:29 <camm> in Boulder, CO, they use it to track potholes
14:33:30 * rebelsky wonders whether there's a convention for tagging the different threads of a conversation. #thread usage
14:34:10 <camm> rebelsky: no, nicks are the only method of tagging
14:34:24 <ghislop> rebelsky: I find that addressing by nick helps to tie items when there are multiple threads going
14:34:57 <PattiO> sorry somehow I missed what a nick is...
14:35:13 <lorip> ghislop can you talk about any of the other projects?
14:35:13 <camm> PattiO <- that's your nick
14:35:23 <ghislop> For those of you undecided about HFOSS interest, no worries.  We expect people to be scoping things out at this point.
14:35:28 <rebelsky> bcoleman: The multiple threads seem to be an advantage (and disadvantage) of IRC.  Certainly, talking about six things at once would be distracting in video conferencing, but it's not too bad here.
14:35:33 <ghislop> lorip: sure.
14:35:53 <rebelsky> ghislop: Will HeidiE be back to tell us about Sahana?
14:35:56 <ghislop> General comment: the ones on the list are all projects that we know have interest in working with students
14:36:04 <PattiO> I have to say it would be nice to see your faces though...
14:36:18 <esmail> pattiO agreed
14:36:22 <camm> I can give the background of Sahana if people would like
14:36:28 <PattiO> yes...
14:36:28 <ghislop> And mostly, these are projects that someone on the OpenFE team has actually had student attempt something
14:36:34 <esmail> yes please
14:36:36 <howardf> camm: yes please
14:36:36 <ghislop> Go Cam...
14:37:12 <camm> Sahana is Python-based webapp that is used by on-site relief workers,
14:38:00 <camm> so when a team arrives in a location, typically to distribute medical aid, Sahana is used to organize and track the medics, doctors, patients, etc.
14:38:28 <camm> heidie_afk has had students work directly on the project as part of a course
14:38:46 * esmail that is very cool
14:39:39 <nannette> I guess we'll be talking about this, but how long is the ramp up on these projects?
14:40:15 <ghislop> nannette: that will vary considerably... and yes, very much a good question for stage 2
14:40:26 <esmail> and would becoming involved ourselves in the development first for a period be the best way to involve our students?
14:40:29 <camm> You can have your own version of Ushahidi up and running in a virtual machine (VM) in less than an hour
14:40:44 <ghislop> nannette: you will also do some learning activities in stage 1 where you can look at projects in more depth with questions like this in mind
14:41:02 <nannette> ghislop: thanks
14:41:05 <ghislop> esmail: that certainly is one strategy
14:41:15 <camm> esmail: it's really good to be involved yourself, but I was not involved with Ushahidi before teaching with it and it worked out
14:41:23 <ghislop> let me say something about Mifos...
14:41:27 <camm> it depends on how many students you have and your basic hacker skills
14:41:31 * lorip thinking... I have to leave in 5 minutes to pick up my kids, anything I should be doing/asking before I leave?
14:41:39 <esmail> camm ghislop thanks
14:41:41 <ghislop> #link http://mifos.org/
14:41:57 <ghislop> Mifos is a micro finance project that is used mostly in south asia and africa.
14:42:11 <ghislop> It has significant presence in the micro finance world and was started by Grameen bank through a foundation
14:42:23 <ghislop> Recently it has moved to a community development model, so the core team is particularly interested in attracting new contributors
14:42:48 <ghislop> it's a large project with functions typical of bank operation, but adjusted for the micro loan environment
14:42:55 <PattiO> that sounds very incredible...
14:43:04 <ghislop> There is a mix of languages... lots of Java
14:43:29 <ghislop> as with many of the HFOSS projects, there's a lot of current work related to moving to mobile devices.
14:43:30 <rebelsky> ghislop: What's it like to work with Grameen bank? We've had really mixed experiences for student internships.
14:43:30 <PattiO> I am a big admirer of Mohammad Younis the founder of Grameen bank
14:43:48 <rebelsky> (That is, student internships at Grameen.)
14:43:50 <PattiO> Now I want to work with more of the HFOSS projects then before
14:43:58 <ghislop> rebelsky: Grameen bank is really out of the picture for the most part
14:44:24 <ghislop> and the Mifos team is quite interested in getting some students involved
14:44:43 <lorip> ghislop will you terminate the meeting and wrap up?  need to get my kids...
14:44:55 <PattiO> and so if we get different groups of students working on different teams is this possible?
14:45:08 <ghislop> rebelsky: I'd be interested in hearing your experience with Grameen though... a good topic over dinner here perhaps!
14:45:29 <rebelsky> ghislop: My info is indirect, but we can chat over dinner.
14:45:33 <ghislop> PattiO: yes, but the issue is not getting spread too thin
14:46:12 <rebelsky> General question:  My sense was that these projects are for us to work on to get a sense of what it's like to be in an open source project, but we can plan to have students work on other projects.  Is that an accurate assessment?
14:46:19 <ghislop> the whole notion of stage 3 is to form groups where the members will share knowledge and help each other... and let people develop knowledge of a particular project
14:46:21 <camm> a key element of selecting HFOSS projects for teaching is how enthusiastic these projects are for help from students
14:46:44 <lorip> bye everyone - it was nice meeting you - sorry I have a leave a little early...
14:46:45 <camm> I believe all of the ones selected are happy to have students helping
14:46:56 <esmail> camm I assume that varies widely?
14:46:56 <ghislop> rebelsky: you could do that, but having made an investment in a project would make it a lot easier to continue with that one with students
14:47:03 <PattiO> Lorip: bye
14:47:08 <nannette> Lorip: bye!
14:47:12 <esmail> lorip bye
14:47:39 <ghislop> lorip: end the meeting...
14:47:51 <PattiO> Should we select projects based on students or our research goals!
14:48:02 <PattiO> ?
14:48:18 <ghislop> PattiO: not sure without hearing more details...
14:48:21 <camm> find the happy medium
14:48:35 <lorip> do I have to end it greg?
14:48:47 <ghislop> combining the two factors would be best, but not always easy
14:49:09 <ghislop> lorip: you're chair.  I'm not sure I can end it if you leave
14:49:28 <ghislop> we can wrap up discussion after that... but I'd like to end the log
14:49:31 <lorip> I'll end it now... can you get the log info?
14:49:32 <camm> PattiO: there's also other factors such as code quality, community support
14:49:39 <lorip> #endmeeting