23:41:09 <StoneyJ> #startmeeting
23:41:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Jun  2 23:41:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is StoneyJ. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:41:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
23:41:33 <StoneyJ> #topic Schedule - Monday
23:42:14 <StoneyJ> FYI, we did an ice-breaker using openetherpad
23:42:22 <StoneyJ> #link http://openetherpad.org/p/posse2a
23:42:32 <rebelsky> StoneyJ: Did you start the chatbot?  (Sorry, just got on.)
23:42:36 <StoneyJ> yup
23:43:07 <rebelsky> Greg says that these workshops have been happening for a few years, but it's hard to see impact because when people get home, other stuff takes over.
23:43:24 <rebelsky> That's why we have stage 3: An opportunity for folks to work together on a particular open source project.
23:43:30 <rebelsky> And that can also help with the learning curve.
23:43:55 <rebelsky> @info Monday is laying the foundation blocks.  (See the schedule for more details.)
23:44:15 <rebelsky> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_2_Activities
23:44:37 <rebelsky> It's so much more than just writing code.  So that's what we start with tomorrow.  (That is, "it's more than just writing code")
23:44:51 <rebelsky> They realize that we need help getting started, so we'll spend some time on that.
23:45:24 <rebelsky> Then some more discussion of the communities - E.g., How do you approach a community?  And we'll get different stories.
23:45:49 <rebelsky> Then they'll tell us more about stage three.
23:46:19 <rebelsky> Return to a deeper level of pedagogy - things like evaluation, fitting the schedule of a term to the schedule of a FOSS project.
23:46:45 <rebelsky> Exercise toward the end of the day - Plan what you're going to do.  (Yeah, NSF and other funders would like to see some outcomes.)
23:46:54 <rebelsky> Goal: Get us to talk to each other and to compare notes.
23:47:08 <StoneyJ> #topic Tuesday Schedule
23:47:42 <rebelsky> First part of the morning is a discussion of processes and tools.  It's an opportunity to talk about our Stage 1 activities.
23:48:09 <rebelsky> Basically - We had a taste of the tools.  Now we'll talk about how they fit in terms of process and culture.
23:48:10 <StoneyJ> (go rebelsky!!)
23:48:42 <rebelsky> More sharing - What assignments have people written.  And then even more sharing - What kinds of things are we thinking about.
23:49:04 <rebelsky> (StoneyJ: Like Heidi, I benefitted a lot from a good typing class.)
23:49:35 <rebelsky> Afternoon of Tuesday - Start working with your group.  Start some planning.
23:49:44 <rebelsky> A chance to poke into things together.
23:50:12 <rebelsky> And then to plan together.
23:50:23 <rebelsky> Then they need to get some feedback, particularly about stage I.
23:50:35 <rebelsky> #topic Projects and Acronyms
23:50:56 <rebelsky> (Hmmm ... would it make more sense just to post Greg's slides?)
23:51:13 <StoneyJ> #topic Projects and Acronyms
23:51:27 <rebelsky> #link teachingopensource.org is the granddaddy of all of this stuff.  And yes, they know that it needs work.
23:51:36 <StoneyJ> (I think he did, I'm looking for the link)
23:51:51 <rebelsky> POSSE was started by Red Hat as an outreach to faculty after a pre-SIGCSE symposium about four years ago.
23:52:04 <rebelsky> POSSE == Professors' Open Source Summer Experience
23:52:26 <rebelsky> Why is there an H in HFOSS?  Greg says that it's accidental.
23:53:11 <rebelsky> Student came back from ??? and convinced Trinity faculty to work on Sahana.  Ralph Morelli, Heidi Ellis, and Greg (collaborating from out here).
23:53:22 <rebelsky> Students are very motivated by the ability to work on these types of projects.
23:53:47 <rebelsky> Research related to underrepresented groups suggests that seeing social relevance to projects attracts members of these groups.
23:54:01 <StoneyJ> #topic HFOSS and Higher Education
23:54:08 <rebelsky> Some others; SoftHum, HumIT, OpenFE
23:54:14 <StoneyJ> Slides link is ...
23:54:15 <rebelsky> HFOSS - Grant from NSF
23:54:18 <StoneyJ> #link http://foss2serve.org/images/foss2serve/d/da/POSSE_Stage2Materials.zip
23:54:25 <rebelsky> SoftHum another grant
23:54:38 <rebelsky> HumIT - Focusing on open source for IT students, rather than CS students
23:54:50 <rebelsky> OpenFE - Open Source Faculty Expertise - Funding this meeting
23:55:04 <rebelsky> Why?  Because there's a significant learning curve for all of this.
23:55:29 <rebelsky> Also, the Red Hat program required some significant faculty investment (travel, hotel).
23:55:40 <rebelsky> We are the first POSSE under the new model!
23:55:58 <rebelsky> The danger of too many grants - Too many Web sites.
23:56:07 <rebelsky> Foss2Serve rolls all of this up together.
23:56:29 <rebelsky> (SamR refuses to type all of the names on the slide of the OpenFE team)
23:57:31 <rebelsky> (Karl will soon get to step down as chair.)
23:58:15 <StoneyJ> #topic Associated Colleagues
23:58:16 <rebelsky> #link http://opensource.com (a project Ruth works on at Red Hat)
23:58:39 <rebelsky> Ruth has also looked at pop culture metaphors in explaining open source
23:58:54 <rebelsky> Cam got sucked in to this project because he's done it on his own (and has done a good job)
23:58:55 <StoneyJ> (the link for downloading materials is more prominent at http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_2_Activities)
23:59:26 <rebelsky> #topic The CS1 Introduction to FOSS
23:59:59 <rebelsky> (Greg notes that many people could give this intro, and it's just an intro.  We'll delve more deeply.)
00:00:33 <StoneyJ> #topic FOSS Beginnings Free Software Definition
00:00:40 <rebelsky> Remember that there are four freedoms
00:00:52 <StoneyJ> #topic FOSS Today
00:01:11 <rebelsky> Another approach - What have the impacts of open source been?  (FOSS today.)
00:01:42 <rebelsky> Obvious examples: Android (vs iOS), Apache (vs. IIS), Linux (vs. Windows)
00:01:50 <rebelsky> In each case, the open source is a clear market competitor.
00:02:30 <rebelsky> The products are credible, but compete less or more successfully.  (E.g., OpenOffice.org doesn't compete with Microsoft Office as well as Firefox competes with IE)
00:02:46 <rebelsky> FOSS is not something that you can ignore.
00:02:55 <StoneyJ> #topic Control
00:03:01 <rebelsky> And students need deeper knowledge.  Many don't quite understand about open source.
00:03:30 <rebelsky> Think about it as an educator - What are the obstacles, opportunities, etc.
00:03:52 <rebelsky> Note: The model that "Anyone can contribute anything" is chaos.  A real open source control has processes, hierarchy, people in control, etc.
00:04:12 <rebelsky> Products live under version control.  Those with commit authority have the power.
00:04:32 <rebelsky> Educational perspective: Organizational structure is good.  There is a process (although it may not be clearly defined.)  And that's something you can work with as an instructor.
00:04:44 <rebelsky> But you need a project in which the control is amenable to you and your students.
00:05:00 <rebelsky> Remember also: Not all projects are open to new people.
00:05:19 <StoneyJ> #topic control and community
00:05:27 <rebelsky> There are multiple models for how people get involved.  Greg Dekoenigsburg (sp?) has a "Contributor Mountain" model.
00:05:43 <rebelsky> At the bottom: Clients and customers, who use the product but don't interact much with the community.
00:05:55 <rebelsky> Then a smaller group who connect to the community for answers on how to use.
00:06:23 <rebelsky> This group may then graduate to another level in which they contribute (bug reports, then feature requests, then ....)
00:06:43 <rebelsky> Then can move forward to being a different kind of contributor - documenting, fixing, developing, etc.
00:06:54 <rebelsky> It's a spectrum - Not an us vs. them
00:06:55 <StoneyJ> #topic community
00:07:09 <rebelsky> #link http://www.kitware.com/blog/home/post/263 - Why we don't call you a 'user'
00:07:31 <StoneyJ> #link http://www.kitware.com/blog/home/post/263
00:07:33 <rebelsky> There's an assumption that people can move from passive "user" to active participants.
00:07:39 <StoneyJ> :)
00:07:49 <rebelsky> That's a very different model (philosophy) than you traditionally see in proprietary software
00:08:35 <rebelsky> It's useful for our students to think about the two different mindsets - Where will you live along the spectrum, along the mindsets, etc.
00:09:00 <rebelsky> Community - "Open - It's not the code, it's the community."  Very open to new partiicipants.
00:09:06 <rebelsky> And this openness makes it exciting.
00:09:25 <rebelsky> Question: How much of the code is really developed by volunteers?
00:09:39 <rebelsky> Studies show a significant amount of FOSS work is done by people paid to work on open source projects.
00:10:20 <StoneyJ> #topic communication
00:10:25 <rebelsky> It's a very different kind of world than proprietary software.  You can't just volunteer to work on a proprietary project, but lots of opportunities in FOSS.
00:10:39 <rebelsky> "More communication is generally better".
00:10:49 <rebelsky> And FOSS has many channels of communication.
00:11:16 <rebelsky> To survive in a distributed, multinational environment, FOSS projects need a lot of tools and strategies.
00:11:40 <rebelsky> Important issue: There's room for lurkers.  Many projects use IRC for regular meetings, and anyone can join the channel.
00:11:58 <rebelsky> And even if you're not on the channel, a meetbot often has recorded the meeting.
00:12:13 <rebelsky> "Read through the chatbot logs from this project" is a useful assignment.
00:12:35 <rebelsky> All of this excites Greg.
00:13:03 <StoneyJ> #topic Callenges in Student Participation
00:13:29 <rebelsky> But there's a huge learning curve issue - even for someone with as much experience as Greg.
00:13:46 <rebelsky> Example: It's wonderful for a student used to toy projects to see a huge code base.  But it's also difficult and scary.
00:13:57 <rebelsky> And some students are really intimidated about participating.
00:14:12 <rebelsky> Faculty have the same problem (often in spades).  [Sam notes that he certainly has that problem.]
00:14:22 <rebelsky> How do you guide your students?
00:14:44 <rebelsky> Scheduling is an issue, too.  For some reason, the world does not run on semesters (or quarters, or ....)
00:15:01 <rebelsky> Evaluating projects and subprojects is important.
00:15:04 <StoneyJ> #topic Challenges in Student Participation
00:15:23 <rebelsky> (StoneyJ: Why did you set the topic twice?)
00:15:54 <StoneyJ> I did?
00:15:59 <StoneyJ> Oops
00:16:01 <StoneyJ> :)
00:16:07 <StoneyJ> because you type too much :)
00:16:09 <StoneyJ> lol
00:16:18 <rebelsky> Big question: Where do we do this?  What courses?
00:16:29 <StoneyJ> #topic Learning Opportunities - Soft Skills
00:16:34 <rebelsky> Isn't the goal to have a log of all of this?
00:16:49 <rebelsky> Open source projects are great at building their soft skills.
00:16:53 * howardf really appreciates this!
00:17:02 <rebelsky> Note: These projects also exist in domains.
00:17:10 <StoneyJ> #topic Learning Opportunities - Domain Knowledge
00:17:26 <rebelsky> Lots of domains: Health, Financial, Cryptography, Bioinformatics, Social issues, Etc.
00:17:35 <rebelsky> HowardF: Did you download the slides to help follow along?
00:17:40 <StoneyJ> (howardf: very good to know!)
00:17:43 <howardf> yes, i did.. thanks!
00:17:54 <rebelsky> We'll see lots of examples of what students have done (tomorrow).
00:18:00 <StoneyJ> #topic Students have ...
00:18:03 <rebelsky> But there are lots of quick examples:
00:18:09 <rebelsky> * Install instructions (videos, text)
00:18:20 <rebelsky> * Guidelines for downloading and such.
00:18:26 <StoneyJ> #topic pointers
00:18:41 <rebelsky> #link #http://producingoss.com/ - Producing Open Source Software by Fogel and ORA
00:18:51 <rebelsky> Greg says that you really need to look at all of these.
00:18:52 <StoneyJ> #link http://theopensourceway.org
00:19:00 <rebelsky> #link http://open-advice.org/ - Relatively new, lots of small tips
00:19:14 <rebelsky> #link http://theopensourceway.org - One of "a bunch of explanatory" texts
00:19:49 <rebelsky> #link The Cathedral and the Bazaar by ESR.  (Sorry, too lazy to type link.)
00:20:08 <rebelsky> #link Ruth's YouTube video.
00:20:40 <howardf> (links are on the slides!)
00:21:03 <rebelsky> And links are also on #http://openetherpad.org/p/posse2a
00:21:14 <StoneyJ> Yes our fingers started falling off
00:21:25 <howardf> should i put my name there and some stuff about me? (etherpad?)
00:21:28 <StoneyJ> #topic wrapping up
00:21:41 <StoneyJ> howardf: definitly
00:21:45 <rebelsky> Note: There's an Ushahidi VM wandering around the room.  We'll do an exercise with it tomorrow.
00:22:20 <rebelsky> StoneyJ: Can we chat afterwards about strategies for doing the IRC?
00:22:29 <StoneyJ> yup
00:23:10 <StoneyJ> link for vm will be posted to http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_2_Activities
00:23:33 <rebelsky> HowardF: Let me know if you want fewer or more details, or other things that I can do.
00:23:36 <StoneyJ> discussing travel stuff
00:24:34 <howardf> well, anything on the slides doesn't need to be typed
00:24:58 <rebelsky> [Applause]
00:25:07 <rebelsky> [That's applause for Greg.]
00:25:09 <StoneyJ> #endmeeting