17:09:58 #startmeeting 17:09:58 Meeting started Mon Jun 3 17:09:58 2013 UTC. The chair is rebelsky. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:09:58 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:10:17 Hmm ... 17:10:22 rebelsky: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. 17:11:20 #topic Quick Business 17:11:33 We will have time to break out into small groups later this afternoon. 17:12:11 Joanie and Cam and company will talk to us about git, with some hands on git stuff. 17:12:34 Maybe reduce the time with the playing with open source. 17:12:49 Maybe two groups ... command line and github. 17:13:00 Details to be determined at break. 17:13:08 #topic Understanding POSSE Stage 3 17:13:41 We are the first group to do this three-stage novel. 17:13:59 They understand the goals. But they haven't gotten stage 3 groups that we can learn from. 17:14:05 Slide: Overview 17:14:10 Slide: Overview 17:14:31 MouseTrap is one example. Yay! We'll finally hear some details. 17:14:47 Slide: POSSE Stage 3 17:15:11 He hopes that we feel "This sounds pretty interesting". He understands that we may not know how to do it yet. 17:15:35 Evidence from workshops like this ... There's what you know at the workshop and then there's what happens afterwards. 17:15:47 We'd like to make more significant stuff happen after the workshop. 17:16:24 Goal of small learning communities - six or so. Large enough that there's some chance for support, small enough that they can work together. 17:16:46 An opportunity for student-student interaction across institutions. 17:16:58 Question: Are we contributing, are we pushing our students to contribute, or both? 17:17:06 Both, but they understand that there are different models. 17:17:33 Slide: Prototype Group: MouseTrap 17:17:50 A prototype for the stage three group. 17:18:21 Comes from an idea that Joanie had. Learning from working with Heidi. 17:18:31 So started to think about outreach to professors. 17:18:50 "Hey, we have modules that are abandoned. Can students and faculty take up ownership?" 17:19:03 If you take ownership of the project, you can better align it with your semester. 17:19:17 Darci will tell us what has happened. 17:20:15 A variety of students and faculty. Students include a 3rd-semester student and a 5th year Drexel student. 17:20:28 Met weekly in IRC with an agenda to follow. Students provided updates about what they were working on. 17:20:31 #link https://live.gnome.org/MouseTrap 17:21:09 Also discussion outside of the IRC. E.g., students communicated with Joanie, with the faculty, etc. 17:21:15 WNE also had a weekly local meeting. 17:21:24 Slide: MouseTrap as a Model 17:21:42 #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Status 17:22:21 THe status page was a way for them to communicate with each other. 17:22:54 Top part ... standardizing development environment. 17:23:10 Each posts some updates. 17:23:45 It appears that they used the posts as a way to help each other. "Hey, I solved this problem in my log on date ..." 17:24:03 #idea Have students log their experiences (e.g., errors they encounter) on a Wiki 17:24:16 Slide: MouseTrap Issues 17:24:48 Note that MouseTrap does not fit the framework very well. There wasn't really community. 17:25:13 There were people who made themselves available, e.g., Joanie. That was nice for students. 17:25:46 Got it to run under Ubuntu, but not under Fedora. 17:26:11 They were working for three big things at the same time (Fedora, Python 3, GTK 3) 17:26:35 Slide: MouseTrap Results 17:26:50 They feel the results are pretty good. The students intend to continue working on the product. 17:27:15 They also learned a lot. Things like being productively lost, checking in with a team leader (Amber). 17:27:21 Collaborate, etc. 17:27:31 Students found it very motivating even though they didn't end up with a working project. 17:27:51 Students were engaged and enjoyed working with each other. 17:28:39 Slide: Letter from student 17:28:47 The letter was unsolicited. 17:29:12 The letter was from the most junior student on the project. (3rd semester student) 17:30:40 Even when you're in the ditch and the project isn't working, there's still learning going on. 17:31:07 The project was good in part because there were students at different institutions. There was a synergy that happened. 17:31:14 And faculty were mentoring students from other institutions. 17:32:47 Greg: We have five suggested projects. Sahana, OpenMRS, etc. 17:33:24 We'd like people to consolidate around a series of projects. 17:33:45 All of the projects have contacts, some faculty who have worked with them, etc. 17:36:35 Start by sitting down and talking to people in the project. But it's okay to switch breakout. 17:36:52 Slide: Stage 3 Evaluation 17:37:01 (One of a few more things to do before we go into the breakout groups.) 17:37:21 John Sener, Micropreneur, is our evaluator. 17:38:01 This is an NSF-funded project. NSF requires that you have an evaluator. 17:38:05 There's also an internal evaluator. 17:39:12 He'll look at our instructor communities etc. 17:40:28 His job is mostly to make meaning from what we've done. 17:40:34 Also helps Drexel relate what they did to what they said that they'd do. 17:40:55 We all know that reality differs from plans. He tries to keep those two realities in mind - what happened, and what was planned. 17:41:25 #link http://www.senerlearning.com/about/bio-john-sener 17:41:41 Greg: There's a hope that we'll get students higher on Bloom's taxonomy and on motivational change. 17:42:30 There are some data and some publications already. But they want to plug in with the stage three groups and do more measuring of student learning. 17:42:36 Remember: There are publication opportunities. 17:43:13 There's also a hope that this can scale up. But we need demo to convince others to adapt/adopt. 17:43:50 His job is to help produce data that are useful. 17:44:08 #link http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/csla/assessment/risc 17:44:33 The RISC Survey (Research in the Integrated Science Curriculum) is one of Sam's favorite ways to look at soft learning gains in a class. 17:45:17 The instrument has been assessed (certainly more carefully than many instruments) - correlating the quantitative data with more qualitative interviews. 17:45:39 Slide: Group Informatics 17:45:51 can anyone use those assessments? 17:45:56 We'll have a way to stay in touch. What is going well, what is not going well. 17:46:02 Give us a community that we can refer to and get help from. 17:46:20 "Group informatics" will provide us with social awareness so that you can know when people are there. 17:46:32 You shouldn't have to remember to log in to another technology system to know that something's going on. 17:46:47 They are considering using foss2serve and computingportal.org 17:47:24 #link http://computingportal.org/ 17:47:33 An offshoot of the National Science Foundation Digital Library 17:47:59 Goal of building a portal to help people find resources related to teaching CS. 17:49:09 Lots of people have a presence out there. 17:51:24 What's the relationship with teachingopensource.org 17:51:45 Mostly as a special interest group within teachingopensource.org, focusing on HFOSS. 17:52:06 And this group will devote some resources to cleaning up the main site. 17:52:46 20-30 people hang out in the teachingopensource channel. About 100 are on the roll. 17:52:57 This project really focuses on humanitarian open source. 17:55:02 There's also some money for subsidies to make more extensive work. Develop, pilot, measure, share back with community. $3K summer stipend or something similar. And some travel money. 17:55:54 We can't do all 50 for the followup activity, but we can get bunches of people together. 17:56:24 This is a two-year grant, but it's extendible for a third year. 17:56:50 31 August 2014 is current end, but expect to extend to 31 August 2015. 17:57:14 #topic Grading and Evaluation 17:58:11 Let's drill down a bit into grading, evaluation, licensing, IP, FERPA, and more. 17:58:12 (rebelsky: getting tired?) 17:58:12 (are we moving on to 2.5 now?) 17:58:17 Slide: Overview 17:58:28 Slide; Instructional Style - 1 17:58:47 howardf: yes, 2.5 17:59:02 KNowing all the details of a project is nearly impossible. "If I know discrete math, I know all the details." And there are tons of textbooks. 17:59:11 Not having as much context means that you have to train your instructional style. 17:59:20 You switch from being a lecturer than a mentor. 17:59:26 "How would *you* solve this problem?" 17:59:33 "Who should we turn to to ask about this." 17:59:39 And you learn as much as your students do. 17:59:50 You're a co-learner, not the person who has all the knowledge. 17:59:56 Slide: Instructional Style - Mentor 18:00:11 Tell them up front: "This class will be different than any other class that you've ever taken." 18:00:12 And repeat it. 18:00:25 "Because it's a different learning style, it may not meet their expectations. 18:00:40 So make it clear that it won't be as scaffolded as a traditional class. 18:00:56 You may feel like you don't know a lot. But you know a heck of a lot more than you think you do. 18:01:04 You know what a good assignment is. 18:01:11 You know when things are going south in your class. 18:01:15 You know how to ask questions. 18:01:43 If you're looking and observing within the community you can give good and bad examples of all sorts of things (e.g., code, artifacts, comments) 18:02:00 Slide: Instructional Style - Co-Learner 18:02:41 Heidi's first teaching career was teaching professionals. 18:02:55 At the start of the semester, should could ask them to set their own learning and assessments. 18:02:59 Midway through, check in. 18:03:04 End of semester - They can grade themselves. 18:05:34 "This is a journey we're taking together. I don't know it all, but I know enough to keep us on the path." 18:05:47 Maybe position yourself as project manager. 18:07:21 Warning! This is a risky activity. Be cautious. Students can be sharks. 18:07:28 And your evaluations may go down. 18:08:28 You really have to reconceptualize how you interact with your students. 18:09:22 Need to make sure that you have appropriate support from your senior faculty. 18:10:23 Unclear expectations can be harder for less strong students. 18:10:41 Heidi's expectation is clear: Become involved in the community. 18:12:06 Difference between a small class (under 10) and a large class. You know what's going on more with the small class. 18:13:18 Even students who fail can learn a lot. 18:14:20 These less clear expectations can be a particular problem where there's a more adversarial relationship - students who will threaten suits if they fail. 18:15:58 Slide: Instructional Style - Preparing Students 18:16:28 Gives many opportunities for students, particularly in preparing them for what it's like as a professional. 18:16:43 Teaching them things in areas in which you don't know much. 18:17:58 A really hard lesson from Greg's professional life: Having experienced people on the front line - It's hard to get them to say "I don't know. Let me ask and get back to you." 18:18:26 Slide: Instructional Style - Be Opportunistic 18:18:35 Example - Taking students to the Gnome summit. 18:18:54 Now she's looking for those opportunities any place that she can find them. 18:19:13 Not all user meetings or FOSS conferences will be hits. But many will. 18:19:33 How does someone find out about these meetings? 18:19:35 Even when the meetings aren't hits, the students still learn. Sometimes they learn what they do and don't find interesting. 18:20:38 Example of Joanie coming to class showing what happens with different visual issues. 18:21:34 A lot of HFOSS groups would like to have a local hackathon, but they don't have space. 18:21:46 Internet connections plus a room is helpful. 18:22:04 [Since Sam's in the middle of Iowa, he doesn't quite believe the "buy pizza and they will show up" message] 18:22:12 Slide: Issue: Complexity 18:22:29 The community can help identify the portions of the project that may be of interest. Potential starting places, etc. 18:23:57 What do you do about the more remote locations? 18:23:59 Skype, IRC, etc. 18:24:14 Although you lose the whiteboard opportunity for design things. 18:25:40 there are interactive whiteboards for that.. i'd have to hunt around for some urls though 18:26:56 Slide; Issue: Unpredictability -1> What if something goes wrong? 18:27:19 Loss of contact person can be really hard. There isn't always a clear successor. So use the community to try to get support. 18:27:38 Your grade should not depend on what gets submitted back to the community. There can still be "deliverables", just local deliverables. 18:28:40 Heidi's last fall nightmare: Working on Epiphany. It has a plug-in architecture. At Hopper, learned that Epiphany was going away from the plug-in architecture. Students had done requirements and design document. 18:28:58 So, even though they didn't have code that could be accepted, the code that they developed could provide a base for future stuff. 18:29:38 Sometimes projects fork (e.g., OpenOffice vs. LibreOffice). Stick with one of the forks, preferably the one with your contact person. 18:29:48 And it's a great opportunity for discussion. Why did this happen? 18:29:55 Also true for the architecture change. 18:30:35 Sometimes the need for student contributions disappears. You can sometimes avoid this by being transparent. 18:30:55 Pick projects that aren't very specific fixes. As long as there are choices for the students to make, there can be useful results. 18:32:52 Slide: Issue: Unpredictability - 2 What if Something Goes Wrong? 18:32:59 Communities are unlikely to give you anything on the critical path. 18:33:35 Remember that there's still learning value, even if you don't meet community goals. 18:33:46 Slide: Issue: Schedule Creep 18:35:51 Slide: Evaluating Student Work - 1 18:36:04 Give them the rubric with the assignment. 18:36:12 Sometimes a 1-3 scale for various things. 18:36:47 comment to add... sometimes the rubric can be developed with the students 18:36:48 The grade does not need to reflect whether or not the task was accomplished. It can be about what the student has *learned*. E.g., five positive points, five negative points, what the biggest hurdle was. 18:37:40 #link: http://swenet.org 18:37:51 A location that has some resources. 18:38:01 'Blogs are public. Her grades are not public. 18:39:10 Participation grades also give you a bit of leeway. 18:39:58 Another alternative: Core set of stuff required and then the student chooses from an additional menu of deliverables (e.g., IRC vs 'Blog vs ....) 18:56:12 #endmeeting 18:58:44 .slam rsuehle 18:58:44 rebelsky: (slam ) -- Alias for "$1 body slams $2". 18:59:17 .slam ghilsop rsuehle 18:59:31 .slam ghislop rsuehle 19:00:46 .moarbacon 19:00:46 Really stoneyj? I'm not giving up my bacon! 19:01:34 .table stoneyj 19:01:34 stoneyj is put before a table heaping with bacon and other delights. 19:01:49 .fire stoneyj 19:01:49 adamw fires stoneyj 19:03:10 .hotdog 19:03:10 Bow down to your beefy overlord! 19:03:25 .crane rsuehle ghislop 19:03:25 rsuehle stands in crane technique like daniel-san and face kicks rsuehle ghislop 19:03:59 #endmeeting