16:35:00 <heidie> #startmeeting
16:35:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug  6 16:35:00 2013 UTC.  The chair is heidie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:35:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:35:32 <heidie> Reminder that the agenda, brief as it is, is at:
16:35:35 <heidie> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meetings_POSSE
16:36:04 <heidie> #topic Group Progress Reports
16:36:18 <heidie> Lets start with progress reports. Who would like to start?
16:36:22 <bcoleman> I will
16:36:47 <becka> and I will jump in with bcoleman since we are both in OpenMRS
16:36:56 <bcoleman> The OpenMRS team has established weekly meetings.  We are finding that they are good motivators.
16:37:02 <heidie> Could you kindly use the hash info so that the information is in the notes?
16:37:31 <heidie> #Info The OpenMRS team has established weekly meetings. We are finding that they are good motivators.
16:38:18 <bcoleman> Most of us have the dev environment setup, but a few are still fighting with it.  The rest of us are trying to help out whenever possible.
16:38:25 <heidie> Ah, good!
16:38:35 <bcoleman> We have a wiki for the group, and we have some draft activities posted.
16:38:40 <heidie> In my experience, the dev environment for OpenMRS is a pain.
16:38:44 <heidie> Ah, good!
16:38:52 <becka> #info we have been able to trouble shoot during meetings
16:38:57 <bcoleman> JoAnne is running and independent study this fall
16:39:05 <heidie> Ah, good.
16:39:14 <bcoleman> and others of us will use the project in courses in the spring
16:39:19 <heidie> She should get her request for funding in ASAP.
16:39:20 <heidie> :-)
16:39:31 <heidie> This sounds really good!
16:39:45 <heidie> How many students in the independent study?
16:39:51 <bcoleman> Matt and I are working on our proposal, I don't know about others
16:39:58 <heidie> Good!
16:40:03 <bcoleman> lorip, do you know?
16:40:04 <becka> heidie I will get IRC as soon as school starts. I have had a similar IRC for my dissertation so it should not be a problem :-)
16:40:13 <lorip> only 1 in the independent study
16:40:23 <heidie> becka: Do you mean "IRB"?
16:40:30 <heidie> Ah, OK. That's fine.
16:40:33 <becka> yes, lol
16:41:10 <bcoleman> We hope to established a mentoring system with the development team at OpenMRS.  I have a draft of an email to them started, and I wrote to Greg to find out his contact with the group.
16:41:54 <heidie> Yes, that would be good.
16:42:22 <bcoleman> So overall I think we're still maintaining our excitement about using this project with courses, but our progress has been slower than we hoped due to summer activities.
16:42:26 <lorip> I gave bcoleman the name Michael Downey which Greg had forwarded to me wasn't sure if Greg had any updated contacts
16:42:45 <heidie> The person that I worked with was Darius Jazayeri
16:43:00 <heidie> My contact is older than Greg's.
16:43:17 <lorip> I believe that Darius forwarded Greg's email to Michael
16:43:40 <bcoleman> Ok, I worked on a ticket with Darius, so I have something to go on
16:44:31 <heidie> Ah, good. He came to the first workshop we ran on HFOSS.
16:44:34 <heidie> He'll know my name.
16:44:40 <heidie> And he is great.
16:44:45 <heidie> Also really, really smart.
16:45:09 <bcoleman> yes, he took charge of some of the weekly University sessions we attended.  :)
16:45:27 <bcoleman> Ok, that is some good context for my email.  It will make the introductory part easier.
16:46:48 <bcoleman> Anyone else from the group want to add anything?
16:46:53 <heidie> :-) He was in HFOSS at the beginning and visited Trinity in 2008 or so when students were working on OpenMRS.
16:47:14 <becka> bcoleman: I think that covered it
16:47:19 <lorip> you did a good job covering where we are at
16:48:45 <heidie> Good!
16:48:45 <heidie> Next?
16:48:56 <camm> Team Ushahidi is meeting every 2 weeks
16:49:01 <heidie> Ah, good!
16:49:02 <camm> #info Team Ushahidi is meeting every 2 weeks
16:49:24 <camm> we are basically a team of 4: Sam, Monisha, Karl and I
16:49:44 <camm> Sam and I's HFOSS-related courses are in the new year
16:49:51 <heidie> Ah, OK.
16:50:01 <camm> Sam has some students working over the summer on Ushahidi
16:50:36 <camm> I am focusing on supporting Monisha and Karl get ready for their courses as much as I can
16:50:52 <camm> like most, July was not too productive due to, well, Summer
16:51:43 <heidie> Summer is for fun! I hope that you got some relaxation in. :-)
16:51:59 <camm> Also, Ushahidi is going through a big rewrite v2 -> v3, so I'm keeping up with that
16:52:32 <camm> it seems everyone else is afk, so I think that's all from us, unless there are questions
16:52:54 <heidie> OK, thanks.
16:53:21 <heidie> What sorts of activities are Karl and Monisha planning?
16:54:32 <camm> Monisha's work is related to support the "brown field" issue in NJ
16:54:44 <camm> so more of a use of Ushahidi for mapping than development
16:55:03 <camm> I can't recall what Karl is planning
16:55:06 <heidie> Ah, OK.
16:55:29 <lorip> \away
16:55:47 <camm> Ushahidi has put out a lot of design docs for their rewrite, so I'd like to see someone work with those
16:56:03 <heidie> Interesting idea.
16:56:17 <camm> less coding, but more on the software eng process
16:57:03 <camm> I'm interested to hear specifics of how the other projects will be used in the classroom
16:57:34 <camm> now may not be the time for that discussion, but hopefully once courses start rolling in the Fall
16:57:40 <heidie> Yes, soon.
16:57:55 <heidie> pnutzh4x0r: any update on what you're doing?
16:59:09 <stoney> maybe he isn't really there
16:59:23 <heidie> Seems so.
16:59:29 <camm> ya, I regularly lurk without the _afk suffix
16:59:29 <heidie> sbenthall: How about you?
16:59:38 <heidie> Yeah, me too.
16:59:46 * camm hopes everyone understand what "lurks" means in IRC
16:59:52 <heidie> :-)
17:00:08 <sbenthall> I'm trying to put together a class.
17:00:25 <sbenthall> how do I use this bot thing?
17:00:28 <sbenthall> #link http://courses.ischool.berkeley.edu/i290m-ocpp/site/information.html
17:00:30 <sbenthall> like that?
17:00:35 <stoney> yup
17:00:36 <heidie> Yup, exactly like that!
17:00:48 <heidie> All bot commands must go at the beginning of the line and start with a hash.
17:01:04 <sbenthall> #info I'm working with a faculty member and post-doc on a Open Collaboration and Peer Production course
17:01:28 <sbenthall> it's aimed at Masters students at the iSchool, so it's a bit different from the CS undergrad education track
17:01:41 <heidie> Do any undergrads take the course?
17:01:41 <sbenthall> but it's definitely drawing from the POSSE workshop
17:01:52 <sbenthall> possibly, but we aren't marketing to them
17:01:56 <sbenthall> I don't think we'd kick them out
17:02:23 <sbenthall> I don't have full control over the course content, so that's one reason why we are drawing from the management science literature quite a bit
17:02:38 <sbenthall> but I'm experimenting with some hands on geekery
17:02:59 <sbenthall> assignments are to go out and contribute to some external project
17:03:14 <sbenthall> handing those assignments IN is a github pull request to a static site generator, Pelican
17:03:35 <sbenthall> I'm hoping that version-control-as-content-management-system will be accessible enough to the non-techies
17:03:44 <sbenthall> while still giving them the feel for it
17:03:51 <heidie> ok
17:04:36 <sbenthall> then the idea is that if they split out and survey various projects (which might not be software...open data projects like OSM or Wikipedia are valid too)
17:04:54 <sbenthall> they contribute back to a group report on what participation was like
17:05:16 <sbenthall> which is natively web publishable, and something we could share with you folks, for example
17:05:58 <sbenthall> I think I'm taking some risks here, but I've got the support of the department, so I'm plunging
17:06:04 <sbenthall> pretty excited about it, actually
17:06:06 <sbenthall> that's all for me
17:07:01 <heidie> Sounds cool!
17:07:45 <camm> sbenthall: how long is the course?
17:07:50 <heidie> Any HFOSS projects in the mix?
17:08:46 <sbenthall> camm: one semester
17:08:58 <sbenthall> heidie: plan is to push them towards those
17:09:11 <heidie> Ah, OK
17:09:22 <sbenthall> since these students are pretty mature, I'm hoping to let them pick based on their career goals
17:09:27 <heidie> Sure.
17:09:41 <sbenthall> but I'm thinking: "Oh, you're into microfinance? Try Mifos!"
17:09:42 <sbenthall> etc.
17:09:47 <camm> hopefully that maturity will help
17:09:59 <sbenthall> camm: i'm counting on it
17:10:00 <camm> I don't think such a course would be feasible with undergrads
17:10:14 <sbenthall> open access to scientific research is an issue I know some of our students care a lot about as well
17:10:28 <camm> even with a clear task for my students, getting something even into a reviewable state for the upstream project is tough unless they're very good hackers
17:10:29 <sbenthall> there's a lot of FOSS work being done in that area as well
17:11:07 <sbenthall> camm: understood. I'm not anticipating that most of the contributions upstream will be technical
17:11:28 <stoney> oops
17:11:31 <camm> yes, the open data type projects would work better
17:11:33 <sbenthall> i'd be happy with documentation, community development work...
17:12:05 <camm> that's what I'm thinking with having my students work with Ushahidi's design docs
17:12:18 <camm> the learning curve to doing technical work is tough
17:12:53 <sbenthall> makes sense
17:13:21 <becka> I have also found in the past, working with Ubuntu that bug triage is also a good place to start
17:14:20 <camm> methinks network issues
17:14:26 <stoney> looks like
17:15:06 <becka> I must leave the conversation and attend a disciplinary meeting
17:15:11 <stoney> heidie: ?
17:15:21 <becka> I will "see"everyone soon
17:15:27 <heidie> sorry dropped out for a bit.
17:15:34 <heidie> Internet is sketchy.
17:15:45 * camm wanted to make a joke about becka being the subject of the disciplinary meeting
17:15:49 <heidie> :-)
17:16:41 <stoney> are we ready for the next item on the agenda?
17:16:52 <heidie> Sure!
17:17:14 <stoney> I don't think I can change the topic... but I can try
17:17:22 <stoney> #topic Evaluation Efforts
17:17:36 <stoney> nope I'm not a chair
17:17:36 <heidie> #topic Evaluation efforts
17:17:53 <heidie> Does
17:18:27 <heidie> Hmmm, not sure what that items.
17:18:31 <camm> what is the evaluation of?  Research or Learning?
17:18:34 <heidie> "means" Can't type today!!
17:19:32 <heidie> Ah, I think I remember!
17:20:03 <heidie> #info The OpenFE group is working on an evaluation template to try to get information about motivation and learning with HFOSS.
17:20:57 <heidie> #info  We have a set of pre/post surveys that survey the impact of HFOSS involvement on student motivation, opinion of course content learning, and career plans.
17:21:30 <heidie> #info  The "opinion of course content learning" section will vary depending on the course.
17:21:52 <camm> great
17:22:13 <heidie> #info We are soliciting questions from anyone interested in using the instrument so that we can have a consistent set of possible questions to insert into that section.
17:22:33 <heidie> My IRB approved the approach of having a template and inserting appropriate questions into that one section.
17:22:41 <heidie> However, the questions that are inserted will have to be approved.
17:23:00 <heidie> So if you're interested in using the instrument, let me know and I'll send you a copy and you can send me questions.
17:23:09 <heidie> Questions?
17:24:05 <camm> I'd like to take a look
17:24:09 <howardf> i'd be interested
17:24:10 <camm> I may have questions then
17:24:36 <heidie> Yes, right. We were hoping that a common set of questions would let us compare similar courses across institutions.
17:25:12 <heidie> OK, I'm still finalizing the template and when I get that set, I'll send to POSSE members.
17:25:24 <camm> perfect, I was wondering how/when we are going to disseminate our results from this work
17:26:16 <heidie> We expect that the people that participate in the evaluation will participate in any publications that result from that evaluation.
17:26:29 <sbenthall> heidie: I'm interested in using the instument and working it into our assignments
17:26:37 <heidie> Super!
17:27:10 <heidie> It will take me a few days to get the template done (still need to run the final version by the OpenFE team) and then I'll distribute.
17:27:12 <sbenthall> heidie: where is it? sorry if you already posted the link
17:27:13 <sbenthall> oh ok
17:27:16 <sbenthall> fantastic
17:27:51 <heidie> Note that we have existing data using the template so we may be able to do some back comparison to previous work as well. But also means we can't change the questions in the sections that are not content driven.
17:28:53 <heidie> And you may also feel free to run your own evaluation within your courses and disseminate along with data from this template.
17:29:12 <heidie> Anything else?
17:29:26 <camm> in general, or related to this?
17:29:34 <heidie> Either
17:29:41 * heidie notes that it is closing on 2:00
17:29:48 <bcoleman> You mentioned that you could help with setting up assessment.  Is this evaluation part of that?
17:29:51 <camm> I'm curious about any plans on SIGCSE 2014?
17:30:32 <stoney> (before we lose people... i'll info one more quick announcement)
17:30:35 <stoney> #info If you are still considering writing a "Development Proposal", or are working on one but are not finished, get us (Gregory Hislop <hislopg@drexel.edu>) something and we can give you feedback.
17:30:53 <heidie> Ah, yes!
17:31:04 <stoney> now back to camm :)
17:31:27 <heidie> There is a list of possible submissions at:
17:31:29 <heidie> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/SIGCSE_2014
17:31:51 <heidie> And this list is editable ;-)
17:32:24 <camm> Will most of OpenFE be there?
17:32:27 <heidie> Please feel free to add if you have an idea.
17:32:29 <heidie> I believe so.
17:32:40 <heidie> Perhaps not Sean Goggins, but I think the rest of us are planning on attending.
17:33:00 <heidie> And you'll note that we're thinking about having some sort of a get-together, just not sure what kind yet.
17:33:12 <camm> ok, I'll plan to go, in what capacity to be determined
17:33:20 <heidie> Super! That will be great!
17:33:31 <heidie> Yes, we're hoping to get multiple submissions accepted there.
17:33:48 <bcoleman> This sounds great.  I have missed the last 2 SIGCSEs.  It will be good to get back.
17:34:20 <heidie> Definitely!
17:34:22 <heidie> :-)
17:34:29 <heidie> Any other thoughts or comments?
17:34:45 <camm> submissions are do in one month
17:34:49 <camm> er, due
17:35:07 <camm> for papers, posters in 2 months
17:35:09 <heidie> Yes, right.
17:35:16 <heidie> So we need to keep moving on this.
17:35:57 <heidie> Anything else?
17:36:24 <heidie> OK, I'm going to call it. Good to talk with everyone!!
17:36:36 <stoney> thanks for coming!
17:36:39 <heidie> Please do ping us if you would like help or input as the fall term approaches.
17:36:42 <heidie> :-) Yes, thank you.
17:36:45 <heidie> #endmeeting