16:00:42 <geppetto> #startmeeting fpc
16:00:42 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 17 16:00:42 2022 UTC.
16:00:42 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:00:42 <zodbot> The chair is geppetto. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
16:00:42 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:42 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fpc'
16:00:42 <geppetto> #meetingname fpc
16:00:42 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fpc'
16:00:42 <geppetto> #topic Roll Call
16:01:01 <geppetto> #chair tibbs
16:01:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto tibbs
16:01:06 <carlwgeorge> .hi
16:01:10 <zodbot> carlwgeorge: carlwgeorge 'Carl George' <carl@redhat.com>
16:01:18 <tibbs> Not sure what's happening in the other channel.
16:01:20 <mhroncok> .hi
16:01:21 <zodbot> mhroncok: Sorry, but user 'mhroncok' does not exist
16:01:24 <mhroncok> DST?
16:01:26 <geppetto> #chair mhroncok
16:01:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto mhroncok tibbs
16:01:30 <mhroncok> .hello churchyard
16:01:31 <zodbot> mhroncok: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' <mhroncok@redhat.com>
16:01:33 <Eighth_Doctor> .hello ngompa
16:01:34 <zodbot> Eighth_Doctor: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
16:01:36 <tibbs> Yeah, probably a time zone mess thing.
16:01:42 <geppetto> tibbs Meeting tied to UTC instead of EST … so collisions
16:01:48 <geppetto> #chair Eighth_Doctor
16:01:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: Eighth_Doctor geppetto mhroncok tibbs
16:01:57 * Eighth_Doctor needs to check to see if Fedora Cloud is tied to US/Eastern or not
16:01:58 <Eighth_Doctor> it's supposed to be
16:01:58 <tibbs> Fortunately there is now at least a reasonable chance of the time change going away in the US soon.
16:02:08 <Eighth_Doctor> yeah
16:02:15 <Eighth_Doctor> holy crap I jumped for joy when I saw that
16:02:23 <Eighth_Doctor> permanent DST would make me so happy
16:02:24 <geppetto> yeh, I've heard that for years … but seems more likely now
16:02:38 <Eighth_Doctor> it got unanimous support by the Senate
16:02:41 <Eighth_Doctor> that literally never happens
16:03:10 <geppetto> yeh, but still waiting for congress to vote it down because 40% believe the earth is flat or something
16:03:24 <carlwgeorge> still has to pass the house and the president's desk
16:03:30 <geppetto> #chair carlwgeorge
16:03:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: Eighth_Doctor carlwgeorge geppetto mhroncok tibbs
16:03:41 <carlwgeorge> and even then, it wouldn't take effect till 2023 iirc
16:04:14 <Eighth_Doctor> I don't care, hope springs anew!
16:05:11 <Eighth_Doctor> the bill was submitted by a member of each party
16:05:13 <geppetto> #topic Schedule
16:05:16 <geppetto> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/packaging@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/ADMQKPELLRWMEO2QNAY5F7BOFEB4W7OP/
16:05:38 <Eighth_Doctor> that email is long
16:05:41 <geppetto> You may notice this is last weeks schedule … AFAIK it's the same. I am very prepared
16:05:42 <Eighth_Doctor> are we actually looking at all that?
16:05:50 <geppetto> looking, yes
16:05:54 <geppetto> dealing with, no
16:05:57 <mhroncok> groceries arrived, will be missing for a while
16:06:02 <Eighth_Doctor> lol
16:06:08 <mhroncok> :D
16:07:03 <tibbs> Bottom line is that we do need to address all of that in some form, even if it's just pinging or closing old stuff.
16:07:27 <Eighth_Doctor> I think that SELinux policy PR has been there for actually years
16:07:36 <tibbs> But most of it doesn't need doing in an actual meeting.  Probably very little of what we need to do actually needs a meeting.
16:07:47 <geppetto> Talking of …
16:07:49 <geppetto> #topic #1159 Ban use of %configure in %prep
16:07:49 <geppetto> .fpc 1159
16:07:49 <geppetto> https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/1159
16:07:50 <zodbot> geppetto: Issue #1159: Ban use of %configure in %prep - packaging-committee - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/1159
16:08:10 <tibbs> That selinux ticket is one of those things that someone worked on but never seemed to want to actually make acceptable for a packaging guideline.
16:08:16 <geppetto> Everyone agrees this is bad … why haven't we closed it?
16:08:45 <geppetto> Do we just need text from someone?
16:08:47 <tibbs> 1159 sort of turned into a bigger thing that I do occasionally work on.
16:09:22 <tibbs> The idea was to just make an autotools page like meson or cmake and then put this there.
16:09:25 <geppetto> We probably need a status of "everyone agrees this is the right direction, but someone needs a few hours to write some policy text"
16:09:41 <geppetto> I don't mind abusing needinfo, but eh
16:09:45 <tibbs> Indeed, that's the state this ticket is in.
16:09:45 <Eighth_Doctor> yeah, maybe a milestone or tag for it?
16:09:51 <Eighth_Doctor> err priority or tag
16:10:03 <tibbs> Can make new tags easily.  As long as it drops out of meeting.
16:10:13 <tibbs> The problem, of course, is that there are loads of tickets like that.
16:10:38 <geppetto> I guess https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1163 is in that state too?
16:10:49 * geppetto nods
16:11:02 <tibbs> If pagure would ever load....
16:11:17 <Eighth_Doctor> yep
16:11:25 <tibbs> Yes, the issue was that it's a good idea but the PR as is would lead to some weird confusion.
16:11:36 <geppetto> #topic Open Floor
16:11:49 <tibbs> I had hope it would be revised, but it looks like we will need to revise it.
16:11:51 <geppetto> Well those were the two main things I wanted to talk about, so …
16:11:53 <tibbs> Something else for the list.
16:11:56 * geppetto nods
16:12:35 <geppetto> Anything else anyone wants to talk about?
16:13:07 <mhroncok> https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1157
16:13:31 <Eighth_Doctor> I'm still iffy about that one
16:13:44 <tibbs> I don't have a problem with it.
16:13:52 <tibbs> But wasn't the part you didn't like removed?
16:15:11 <mhroncok> it was
16:16:25 <geppetto> Yeh, I thin kit's fixed now
16:16:39 <geppetto> I'm +1
16:16:44 <tibbs> Bottom line is that there's no reason to number patches in most cases.  Sources is maybe more complicated.
16:17:29 <tibbs> But our examples should generally just show the simple case unless it doesn't work or it conflicts with what packagers will most often need to do.
16:17:44 <mhroncok> amen
16:17:49 <carlwgeorge> agreed
16:18:18 <carlwgeorge> could we include a note about the numbering and when one might need to do it?
16:18:19 <mhroncok> note that this does not imply "you should not number your sources and patches"
16:18:34 <mhroncok> I'r rather not block the examples change on that
16:18:37 <mhroncok> but we should
16:18:42 <carlwgeorge> sure, can be separate
16:18:42 <geppetto> yeh
16:19:00 <geppetto> I'm fine with anyone doing other improvemnets I'll happily +1 … just don't block this one
16:19:09 * carlwgeorge nods
16:19:43 <geppetto> Ok, any objections then before I click the merge button?
16:20:15 * carlwgeorge is curious what Eighth_Doctor was iffy about
16:20:39 <carlwgeorge> s/iffy/still iffy/
16:20:47 <Eighth_Doctor> we have enough cases where having the numbers is useful by default that I'm not sure it's a good idea to change our guidance
16:21:30 <geppetto> We aren't changing the guidance, just making the simple examples simpler
16:21:54 <carlwgeorge> yeah this pr isn't guidance, the actual guidance can be "use your best judgement"
16:22:09 <Eighth_Doctor> okay
16:22:32 <geppetto> Ok, I clicked the button
16:22:36 <tibbs> Our examples also use autosetup, which in general makes numbering patches pointless, doesn't it?
16:22:39 <geppetto> We did something ;)
16:22:47 <carlwgeorge> yipee
16:22:47 <Eighth_Doctor> tibbs: for patches, yes, for sources no
16:22:50 <mhroncok> yeah!
16:23:22 <carlwgeorge> my guess is the majority of spec files are single source anyways
16:23:31 <tibbs> Yes, I'm explicitly indicating patches here.
16:24:13 <decathorpe> argh, DST. hey guys
16:25:04 <geppetto> #chair decathorpe
16:25:04 <zodbot> Current chairs: Eighth_Doctor carlwgeorge decathorpe geppetto mhroncok tibbs
16:25:19 <Eighth_Doctor> hello Fabio Valentini :D
16:25:27 <geppetto> decathorpe: yeh, same next week … but then we change it again :)
16:25:37 <decathorpe> wonderful
16:26:00 <Eighth_Doctor> but hey, we might be finally adopting DST year round in the US
16:26:14 <Eighth_Doctor> so that'll simplify things and then it's just on the EU to fix their timezone mess :D
16:26:28 <decathorpe> yup ...
16:27:13 <mhroncok> well, if Us will lead the way... the EU can always wait and observe
16:27:36 <mhroncok> we will measure how many daylight have you saved
16:27:43 <mhroncok> and maybe do the same :D
16:28:00 <mhroncok> or you can sell us some of it, if you save too much
16:28:37 <decathorpe> DST really is a misleading term ... you don't save anything, you're just stealing from the morning and giving it to the evening
16:28:41 <mhroncok> (actually, it seems that mos tof the EU countries want to cancel timezone switching, but there is no agreement on whether it should be dst-on or dst-off)
16:28:54 <geppetto> ultimate late stage capitalism … we are now selling daylight :-o
16:29:03 <mhroncok> daylight stealing time
16:29:11 <decathorpe> perfect.
16:29:32 <mhroncok> I sleep til 10 AM. I like DST
16:29:38 <mhroncok> i prefer if we had even more of it
16:29:58 <mhroncok> (sounds like the meeting is over?)
16:30:15 <decathorpe> sounds like it. perfect timing for my arrival
16:30:32 <geppetto> Probably … also maybe have to burn mhroncok at the stake
16:30:56 * mhroncok runs
16:32:22 <geppetto> Ok, see you all next week
16:32:28 <geppetto> #endmeeting