2024-03-28 16:01:50 <@james:fedora.im> !startmeeting fpc

2024-03-28 16:01:50 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-03-28 16:01:50 UTC
2024-03-28 16:01:51 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fpc'
2024-03-28 16:01:55 <@james:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call

2024-03-28 16:02:00 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Hey.
2024-03-28 16:02:04 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> !hi
2024-03-28 16:02:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Fabio Valentini (decathorpe) - he / him / his
2024-03-28 16:02:15 <@limb:fedora.im> !hi
2024-03-28 16:02:17 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Gwyn Ciesla (limb) - she / her / hers
2024-03-28 16:02:42 <@james:fedora.im> Wooo ... all the people
2024-03-28 16:02:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-03-28 16:03:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-03-28 16:04:13 <@james:fedora.im> !hi
2024-03-28 16:04:15 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi
2024-03-28 16:04:15 <@zodbot:fedora.im> James Antill (james)
2024-03-28 16:04:17 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2024-03-28 16:10:15 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC Issue 1343: https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/1343
2024-03-28 16:10:38 <@james:fedora.im> I think this should be an easy +1 ... anyone have any objections?
2024-03-28 16:11:09 <@tibbs:fedora.im> +1
2024-03-28 16:11:32 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> +1 but who is going to actually make the change?
2024-03-28 16:11:37 <@tibbs:fedora.im> But no corresponding PR.
2024-03-28 16:11:56 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I'm working on GAP at the moment but I can look at this later if I get the time.
2024-03-28 16:12:25 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> I already commented with "please submit a PR with the proposed to change" a week ago and there was no response yet, so *shrug*
2024-03-28 16:12:46 <@limb:fedora.im> +1
2024-03-28 16:13:28 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Do we think they would want to ack any proposed PR?
2024-03-28 16:13:51 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> I don't know
2024-03-28 16:14:04 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> if FESCo has approved changes, then they should be the ones making the text ...
2024-03-28 16:14:26 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> Seems like a reasonable assumption, to ensure that it matches what they're looking for
2024-03-28 16:14:28 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I would tend to agree, but everyone is busy.
2024-03-28 16:15:12 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> we're busy too :)
2024-03-28 16:15:29 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> I'd rather not "guess" what parts of the guidelines need to be changed and how
2024-03-28 16:17:10 <@james:fedora.im> Okay, I'll comment that we are basically +5 ... but nobody has time to write the change for them
2024-03-28 16:18:05 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC Issue 1345: https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/1345
2024-03-28 16:19:01 <@james:fedora.im> Seems okay, but as tibbs said ... come back in 9 months or so.
2024-03-28 16:20:16 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> this looks more like "here's what we would like to work", not "this is working now"
2024-03-28 16:20:27 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Cwertainly they are welcome to experiment.  I don't object to them using the ticket to record that but then they will need to tell us when there is something for us to look at.
2024-03-28 16:21:03 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I'm certainly no expert in MPI and I'm probably the closest one here to actual use of it (since I support computational mathematics here at work).
2024-03-28 16:21:04 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> I'm guessing `module load` has nothing to do with modularity, right?
2024-03-28 16:21:23 <@tibbs:fedora.im> No, that's "environment modules".
2024-03-28 16:22:10 <@tibbs:fedora.im> It's sort of like user-level alternatives.  Or switching $PATH around.
2024-03-28 16:23:47 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Indeed, though one came first and it wasn't the "modularity" thing we had for a while.
2024-03-28 16:23:56 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC PR 1348: https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1348
2024-03-28 16:24:06 <@james:fedora.im> Going to merge this unless someone speaks up quickly
2024-03-28 16:24:58 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I tried to verify that there were no changes in the output besides the four things I escaped.
2024-03-28 16:25:57 <@james:fedora.im> Okay, I'll leave it then and you can hit merge when you check the output?
2024-03-28 16:26:51 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC PR 1342: https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1342
2024-03-28 16:27:04 <@james:fedora.im> Same deal ... Going to merge this unless someone speaks up quickly.
2024-03-28 16:27:17 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Sure, I'll merge it later.
2024-03-28 16:27:22 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> yes please, I have a few more small clarifications for Rust guidelines pending.
2024-03-28 16:27:30 <@tibbs:fedora.im> +1 to 1342.
2024-03-28 16:28:06 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I wonder how the different apostrophes got in there.
2024-03-28 16:29:02 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> no idea. maybe copy-paste issue from a different editor I used ...
2024-03-28 16:29:27 <@james:fedora.im> Done
2024-03-28 16:29:36 <@james:fedora.im> !topic FPC PR 1346: https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1346
2024-03-28 16:29:55 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> looks good to me
2024-03-28 16:30:35 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> I always found it weird that some people mix up two different use cases - using macros to know where to *install* stuff, but they shouldn't be used to check where to *find* stuff 
2024-03-28 16:31:02 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I think it may be a good idea to actually write that down somewhere.
2024-03-28 16:32:06 <@james:fedora.im> Yeh, the patch seems fine as it fixes things ... but I feel like we should be changing something somewhere to tell people how to not have this problem
2024-03-28 16:32:36 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Yes, this is just part of it.
2024-03-28 16:32:52 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Also wasn't Fedora going to merge sbin and bin at some point?
2024-03-28 16:33:12 <@limb:fedora.im> Didn't we alrady?
2024-03-28 16:33:25 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> no, that's just a pending change proposal
2024-03-28 16:33:28 <@limb:fedora.im> I that was /usr
2024-03-28 16:33:37 <@limb:fedora.im> Oh that was /usr
2024-03-28 16:33:46 <@tibbs:fedora.im> This line (after the patch) kind of shows why it's confusing: /usr/sbin/update-alternatives --set mta %{_sbindir}/sendmail.sendmail
2024-03-28 16:34:19 <@tibbs:fedora.im> So the macro was removed from the command being executed, but not from the argument.
2024-03-28 16:34:52 <@tibbs:fedora.im> And honestly a clean explanation of why is kind of difficult for me to come up with.
2024-03-28 16:35:23 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> `/usr/sbin/update-alternatives` is something from a different package, and you know where that must be installed
2024-03-28 16:35:43 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> `%{_sbindir}/sendmail.sendmail` is a path where the *current* package installed something 
2024-03-28 16:36:20 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> even if you defined a custom `%_prefix` in sendmail, the updates-alternatives binary would still be at the same place
2024-03-28 16:39:40 <@tibbs:fedora.im> So the remaining question is where that needs to be said.
2024-03-28 16:40:14 <@tibbs:fedora.im> And +1 to merging the PR.
2024-03-28 16:41:21 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> maybe here? https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/RPMMacros/#macros_installation
2024-03-28 16:41:53 <@tibbs:fedora.im> Seems reasonable.
2024-03-28 16:42:09 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> the text already mentions that these macros are for determining where to *install* stuff, but not that they shouldn't be used for other purposes 
2024-03-28 16:49:05 <@tibbs:fedora.im> It used to be very common to use macros for commands within RPM sections but fortunately that has gone away.  This is probably just an extension of that.
2024-03-28 16:49:18 <@tibbs:fedora.im> And I think the alternatives guidelines are pretty old.
2024-03-28 16:51:27 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> AFAIK stuff like `%{__rm}` really should only be used when actually implementing your own RPM macros 
2024-03-28 16:52:56 <@tibbs:fedora.im> It was a dark time back then.
2024-03-28 16:56:02 <@james:fedora.im> ha
2024-03-28 16:56:10 <@james:fedora.im> On that note ...
2024-03-28 16:56:15 <@james:fedora.im> !topic Open Floor
2024-03-28 16:56:23 <@james:fedora.im> Anything anyone wants to talk about before we end?
2024-03-28 16:56:47 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> nothing that is not controversial and will take longer than three minutes :)
2024-03-28 16:57:10 <@tibbs:fedora.im> I will finish up semantic breaks for the GAP guidelines in a bit.  I thought I had done more of these way back then but I guess I didn't.
2024-03-28 16:58:46 <@tibbs:fedora.im> And now that I look, there are a whole bunch of them that still need that treatment.  Oh, well, I'll consider it job security.
2024-03-28 16:59:30 <@james:fedora.im> Sisyphus ftw
2024-03-28 16:59:39 <@james:fedora.im> !endmeeting