#meeting-1:fedoraproject.org log

<@james:fedora.im>

16:00:10

!startmeeting fpc

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

16:00:11

Meeting started at 2025-06-26 16:00:10 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

16:00:11

The Meeting name is 'fpc'

<@james:fedora.im>

16:00:14

!topic Roll Call

<@james:fedora.im>

16:00:49

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

16:00:50

James Antill (james)

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:00:57

Hello.

<@limb:fedora.im>

16:01:04

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

16:01:05

Gwyn Ciesla (limb) - she / her / hers

<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>

16:02:14

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

16:02:15

Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his

<@churchyard:fedora.im>

16:03:03

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

16:03:05

Miro Hrončok (churchyard) - he / him / his or they / them / theirs

<@churchyard:fedora.im>

16:03:08

did you miss me? :D

<@churchyard:fedora.im>

16:03:33

I haven't been around for a while and I thought let's see what's happening

<@salimma:fedora.im>

16:03:36

!hi

<@limb:fedora.im>

16:03:45

Sure, but I know if I miss you I can just break the compose and I'll hear from you. ;)

<@james:fedora.im>

16:03:47

Of course!

<@james:fedora.im>

16:05:41

DC staging move for infra today, so I may be operating on about 25% brain ... apologies in advance.

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

16:06:13

Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his

<@salimma:fedora.im>

16:07:14

I'm still recovering from jetlag and today's the day the lawnmowers are out in force, so I am definitely not at full capacity eitehr

<@salimma:fedora.im>

16:07:17

I'm still recovering from jetlag and today's the day the lawnmowers are out in force, so I am definitely not at full capacity either

<@limb:fedora.im>

16:08:18

I feel that. Someone in my neighborhood is obsessed with their gas-powered leafblower. In JUNE.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

16:09:34

lawnmowing season starts in *May* here. two more months and I don't have to deal with this ever again :)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

16:10:05

leafblowers are the silliest because... unless you vacuum them up they just come back

<@salimma:fedora.im>

16:10:05

<@salimma:fedora.im>

16:10:05

but yeah there are villages around here that have banned gas-powered lawnmowers and leafblowers

<@limb:fedora.im>

16:10:18

YES

<@limb:fedora.im>

16:10:43

I have an electric mower and electric trimmer. The mower sounds like a slightly aggressive window fan. So nice. :)

<@james:fedora.im>

16:11:39

!topic FPC PR#1465 https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/pull-request/1465

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:12:38

So this is one of those things that should certainly be documented, but I'm not sure that the packaging guidelines are the right place to do that.

<@james:fedora.im>

16:12:49

I think this is fine ... although using examples from haskell might get to me to downvote ;)

<@james:fedora.im>

16:13:14

Yeh, but I can't think of a better place off hand.

<@limb:fedora.im>

16:13:44

Honestly I use the guidelines as a howto sometimes. It's not a bad thing.

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:15:42

It's a comment on the quality of the distro documentation as a whole that you would need to go to the packaging guidelines to be told how to bootstrap a package in the buildsystem.

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:16:22

But yeah, there's not really a better place. The instructions seem fine unless we want to macrotize out the reference to "f43".

<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>

16:16:51

I'm not sure that a "typical session" involves `fedpkg import`

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:17:14

How did I not notice that.

<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>

16:17:39

I like the intent behind this but the actual text needs work I think

<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>

16:18:48

Also if we want to punt this out of guidelines, the maintainer docs would be a good place. There's already side tag stuff there.

<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>

16:18:48

<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>

16:18:48

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/package-maintainers/Package_Update_Guide/#_using_macros_in_a_side_tag

<@churchyard:fedora.im>

16:19:17

I'd rtaher improve https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/package-maintainers/Package_Update_Guide/#_using_macros_in_a_side_tag

<@churchyard:fedora.im>

16:19:21

I'd rather improve https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/package-maintainers/Package\_Update\_Guide/#\_using\_macros\_in\_a\_side\_tag

<@james:fedora.im>

16:20:50

Jinx, or snap?

<@churchyard:fedora.im>

16:21:23

I'd also rather...

<@james:fedora.im>

16:21:42

Ahh, +1 the hidden third option ;)

<@james:fedora.im>

16:22:39

I'm fine saying whatever the example text is should go there instead ... anyone want to volunteer to close the PR and point to the above, etc?

<@churchyard:fedora.im>

16:23:11

the `fedpkg import` assumes we only bootstrap at import time

<@churchyard:fedora.im>

16:23:49

let me do this. I recently needed to explain it to semebody

<@james:fedora.im>

16:24:07

Sold!

<@limb:fedora.im>

16:24:08

I wish...

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:24:22

Is there something about bootstrapping which makes it necessary to use fedpkg import? I can't think of one but maybe I'm missing something.

<@limb:fedora.im>

16:24:59

I think they're assuming a new package. That's all.

<@james:fedora.im>

16:26:57

!topic FPC#1467 https://pagure.io/packaging-committee/issue/1467

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:27:58

It's again amazing to me that we would have to do this.

<@churchyard:fedora.im>

16:28:03

I agree with the sentiment but have not checked if there are hidden implications

<@james:fedora.im>

16:28:28

I'm confused ... don't out docs already say the right thing here?

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:28:33

But adding an "(including drop-ins)" at one place in the relevant guidelines doesn't hurt.

<@james:fedora.im>

16:28:42

People just didn't read them, or maybe are confused?

<@james:fedora.im>

16:29:28

Yeh, if that helps I don't mind adding two words ... I just feel like people didn't read the docs and went "oh, config. files go in `/etc`"

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:29:31

The guidelines are really clear that unit files have to be in a specific place. But then drop-ins aren't unit files.

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:30:06

Though honestly just adding "including drop-ins" then implies that the drop-ins go directly into %_unitdir which is also wrong. Ugh.

<@james:fedora.im>

16:35:22

I guess we could ask/ping the systemd people about what they want it to say?

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:35:29

Yes.

<@limb:fedora.im>

16:35:35

Makes sense.

<@james:fedora.im>

16:36:01

The other side would be to put a giant warning there saying "no Fedora packaged systemd config. files should go in `/etc`"

<@james:fedora.im>

16:41:32

I'll add a comment.

<@james:fedora.im>

16:41:35

!topic Open Floor

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:44:17

Nothing from me.

<@tibbs:fedora.im>

16:44:29

It's good to see Miro again, though.

<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>

16:47:28

Somewhat related to a previous item, I was wondering if we should add a guideline that `~bootstrap` builds should not be pushed to repos

<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>

16:48:26

I see this happen in epel a bit, where someone does a bootstrap build to turn off test deps, but then pushes out the results as-is. To me that's not what bootstrap builds are for.

<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>

16:49:11

Note I'm suggesting a SHOULD NOT, not a MUST NOT, so exceptions are fine

<@james:fedora.im>

16:50:21

I'm pretty sure we'll happily merge it if you do a PR ;)

<@carlwgeorge:fedora.im>

16:51:04

Yeah I can work on a pr, it's just the idea phase so far

<@james:fedora.im>

16:57:01

Okay, I'm going to end the meeting now ... Note that very likely I won't have brains/time to run the meeting next, as it'll be the prod infra. DC move.

<@churchyard:fedora.im>

17:24:37

don't we need to !endmeeting or something?

<@james:fedora.im>

17:37:53

!endmeeting