14:09:36 <stickster> #startmeeting FWN on Insight review
14:09:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug 25 14:09:36 2010 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:09:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:09:42 <stickster> #meetingname FWN on Insight review
14:09:42 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fwn_on_insight_review'
14:09:47 <stickster> #chair pcalarco
14:09:47 <zodbot> Current chairs: pcalarco stickster
14:10:21 <stickster> #topic Where's Insight today?
14:10:31 <stickster> #link http://publictest4.fedoraproject.org/drupal
14:10:56 <stickster> #info Accounts need to be made on FakeFAS: https://publictest4.fedoraproject.org/accounts
14:11:04 <stickster> pcalarco: You have an account already, I think, right?
14:12:12 <pcalarco> stickster: I applied to the cms_editors group, but not sure if that was apoproved
14:12:26 <stickster> pcalarco: Log in to Drupal and we can find out :-)
14:12:35 * stickster has the tie-ins all set up
14:13:16 <stickster> pcalarco: I show your FAS account (same name on Drupal) is called 'pvcalarco'
14:13:25 <pcalarco> lol, okay now I can't remember what password I used for the Test FAS account
14:13:31 <stickster> heh
14:13:39 <pcalarco> thanks; that's the problem there
14:13:58 <pcalarco> ok, in
14:14:52 <pcalarco> stickster: I see: Home, My Account, Feed aggregator, Log out
14:15:14 <stickster> OK, looks like you are in the 'cmseditors' group
14:15:43 <stickster> pcalarco: Ah, found the problem.
14:15:46 <stickster> Can you logout, and then login again?
14:15:51 * stickster had a name wrong, just fixed it.
14:16:35 <stickster> Awesome, I see everything worked correctly :-)
14:16:37 <pcalarco> stickster: great, now I see the create content link
14:17:18 <stickster> #info Account hookups working OK, FAS groupnames checked in Drupal.
14:17:23 <stickster> #topic Requirements
14:18:01 <stickster> pcalarco: OK, probably good for us to just review what it is you want to see out of content creation.  Rather than force you to walk through things in one way, tell me about how you'd like to see things work.
14:18:31 * gwerra is around if needed
14:19:10 <stickster> Hi gwerra!
14:19:13 <stickster> #chair gwerra
14:19:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: gwerra pcalarco stickster
14:19:20 <gwerra> hey stickster, pcalarco
14:19:28 <pcalarco> Well, we have individual stories that get published to the front page in Drupal that summarize availability of the new FWN issue and point to a book page where all the FWNs are clustered, with links to old issues and such
14:19:31 * jsmith lurks
14:19:54 <stickster> pcalarco: Ha, you just said the magic word I was thinking of, "book"
14:19:59 <pcalarco> we could do it this way, that is :)
14:20:28 <stickster> pcalarco: So beat writers could put in their book pages, and the editor could assemble them and publish the cover story.
14:20:57 <pcalarco> that is basically hpow we were approaching things in Zikula, with a brief news item that appears on the front page pointing to an in-depth issue
14:21:05 <pcalarco> yep
14:21:05 <stickster> *nod
14:21:45 <stickster> #agreed Beat writers would populate/write book pages (FWN beats), and the editor would write a news item for the front page pointing to the book (FWN issue)
14:21:57 <stickster> pcalarco: Should we try this out to see how this works?
14:22:18 <pcalarco> sure, let's; I will grab some content from last FWN
14:22:33 <gwerra> pcalarco: now you can make it like a book (multiple pages each number) or the way we were approaching it in zikula, cover page, then single page expansion
14:22:43 <stickster> pcalarco: Just FYI, I've been experimenting a bit (haven't got far enough yet) with the Flexifilters module for D6.
14:22:50 <rbergeron> is there a meeting i've screwed up?
14:23:00 <stickster> rbergeron: Heh :-)
14:23:01 <gwerra> rbergeron: nope, go back to sleep :P
14:23:22 <stickster> pcalarco: The point being, Flexifilters would allow you to literally paste content from the wiki into Drupal, and it would be translated to HTML automatically.
14:23:25 <rbergeron> whew :) thanks gwerra :)
14:23:36 <stickster> pcalarco: I'm not sure how useful that is in the long-term, if people start just writing their content on Drupal.
14:24:06 * stickster is hesitant to make anyone do things twice
14:25:02 <pcalarco> okay, I added a new beat at http://publictest4.fedoraproject.org/drupal/node/2
14:25:37 <pcalarco> but right now it is just showing this 1, which is a permissions thing I think?
14:26:23 <stickster> pcalarco: Heh. I think the Flexifilter is at fault
14:26:26 <pcalarco> If I click on edit, I can see the entire text
14:26:30 <pcalarco> yes
14:26:42 <stickster> pcalarco: Try switching the input to "Filtered HTML"
14:26:55 <stickster> pcalarco: I'm going to work on the Flexifilter, but it's nowhere near ready right now
14:27:03 <pcalarco> yes, I copied the Mediawiki text in directly which is nice
14:27:20 <pcalarco> bingo, cool
14:27:28 <pcalarco> http://publictest4.fedoraproject.org/drupal/node/2
14:27:43 <stickster> #info Flexifilters might allow us to copy in MediaWiki text. The current filter is not ready for use.
14:28:11 <pcalarco> so then child pages could be added to this one for each beat in the issue
14:28:35 <stickster> pcalarco: Right
14:28:43 <stickster> I'm going to add a simple child, feel free to do the same
14:29:27 <pcalarco> the layout isn't very obvious, I think this is changable tho
14:30:24 <stickster> pcalarco: Can you explain?  I'm sure I agree, just want to understand what you'd rather see
14:30:35 <pcalarco> and then you can play with the weighting in each book to sort the child pages the way you want
14:31:26 <pcalarco> stickster: each beat becomes a bulleted item below the main book page, which is a little different than the current layout people see when they go to the wiki
14:31:44 <stickster> pcalarco: Right... so would you rather see these pages get combined into one display?
14:34:05 <stickster> http://drupal.org/node/614882#comment-2266600
14:34:26 <stickster> #info See previous link for a hint on how to combine book content into one view
14:34:27 <pcalarco> stickster: its a decision point, because if we tag/categorize these as child pages, I think readers can RSS subscribe to just the beats they want?
14:34:40 <pcalarco> not sure how much folks would want this
14:34:41 <stickster> pcalarco: Yes, very true -- but I think that would work no matter how they're displayed
14:35:02 <stickster> IOW, we could display the book on the site as a combined document, but it would be possible for people to subscribe to just one beat.
14:35:40 <pcalarco> stickster: yes, that seems like a good approach
14:35:51 <stickster> pcalarco: It looks like we need Views for this to work.
14:36:02 <stickster> #info May need Views module for a combined book display
14:36:53 <pcalarco> stickster: yes, I see the PHP code for the views there
14:37:10 <stickster> pcalarco: Cool, thanks for the confirmation -- I'll add this to requirements then.
14:37:49 <stickster> as "possible" requirement, since we have to see if it works first -- I know Views is a very popular and stable module, just need to test the functionality
14:38:51 <stickster> #action stickster Add possible requirement for combined FWN book view, and Views module, to project plan
14:39:22 <stickster> pcalarco: Is it worthwhile for me to try doing that right now? Or should we continue to look at workflow stuf?
14:39:25 <stickster> *stuff?
14:40:25 <pcalarco> sure let's try
14:40:45 <pcalarco> I am adding the rest of the beats in as child pages as we go
14:40:46 <stickster> It looks to me like, after the FWN issue is assembled, the editor would write a quick, canned story to say, "Hey, FWN ### is out, read it <LINK>here</LINK>."
14:40:57 <stickster> And that would be published to the front page.
14:40:57 <pcalarco> stickster: yes
14:41:12 <stickster> Wow, you're making quick headway on the story entries
14:41:45 <stickster> pcalarco: Are those beats saved as separate pages on the wiki?  Or just sections on a single page?
14:42:16 <pcalarco> sections on a single page; copying from the browser at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue239
14:42:51 <pcalarco> I should grab the printable version cleans up the tags a bit but this is okay for what we want now
14:43:01 <pcalarco> oka, done a whole issue now
14:43:21 <pcalarco> Drupal makes things fast, :)
14:43:55 <pcalarco> I'll clean up these individual beats a bit
14:45:29 <stickster> pcalarco: OK, I gotcha
14:45:56 * stickster was wondering if it was possible to just make this a big-red-button operation using an add-on or trigger of some kind.
14:46:39 <stickster> pcalarco: We might want to look at the history for the beats and see how much collaborative editing is done there
14:49:09 <pcalarco> stickster: occasionally there are people who correct content and such; most of it is done by editors
14:49:35 * stickster thinks we want to (1) maximize people's ability to collaborate first, then (2) make it as easy as possible to move the content to Insight.
14:50:26 <stickster> pcalarco: One thing we might want to look at is some of the use of <ref> and <references/> in the pages.
14:50:47 <stickster> In some cases they don't seem to make sense to me, but I'm probably missing some piece of knowledge that would clarify
14:51:28 <stickster> Ah wait, probably it's because of converstion to ASCII for the mailing.
14:51:33 <stickster> *conversion
14:52:19 <stickster> It would be cool if we could get Insight to actually do that mailing when the issue's published.
14:52:32 <pcalarco> stickster: yes, if we can get the Mediawiki tagging to work, this would be sweet
14:53:08 <pcalarco> then beat writers' experience in creating the beat would not be much different and the references and such would work'
14:53:15 <stickster> Otherwise, you're doing editing on the wiki, then going to Insight to publish the book + story, then I assume you have to do some magic to turn the wiki stuff to ASCII for email (?)
14:55:29 <stickster> pcalarco: OK, so enough about requirements I suppose for now
14:55:43 <stickster> #action stickster Work on Flexifilter to improve Wiki pasting or editing experience
14:55:51 <stickster> #topic Workflow
14:56:08 <stickster> So right now, pcalarco, the workflow looks something like this:
14:56:21 <stickster> 1. Beat writers and editors create beats on Fedora wiki
14:56:52 <stickster> 2. Editor pastes beats into book pages on Insight and makes them children of a ToC page
14:57:04 <stickster> 3. Editor writes a blurb story for the front page and publishes
14:57:29 <stickster> 4. Editor goes back to Fedora wiki, does some sort of post-processing to make issue suitable for email, and sends to lists
14:57:38 <stickster> pcalarco: Does that look fairly correct?
14:58:36 <pcalarco> stickster: yes, sio do we want to continue creating content on f.p.o/wiki?  What would be the downside of doing everyhting in Drupal?
14:59:24 <stickster> pcalarco: The main downside I see is in where people collaborate, and making sure people know they can sign into Drupal to help, the same as the wiki
14:59:38 <pcalarco> we could keep the archive page in the wiki, and also have a sticky link that pointed to an ongoing book that could link to past issues
15:00:07 <stickster> pcalarco: Right, I don't see why we would want to move all the old archives into Insight
15:00:39 <pcalarco> stickster: I am fine with keeping initial writing on the wiki; its what people are used to
15:01:09 <pcalarco> then the 'new' archives would be on Drupal for the final copy?
15:01:50 <stickster> pcalarco: Yes, with some sort of information text that would tell people where the 'old' archives are if they need something older than <DATE_WE_START_USING_INSIGHT_FOR_REAL>
15:02:06 <pcalarco> stickster: right
15:02:41 <stickster> pcalarco: And I was thinking we'd want a navigation link for "Weekly News," and under that would be a link to "Latest issue," and a link to "Archives" (pointing at the 'new' archives).
15:04:47 <pcalarco> stickster: yes
15:05:17 <stickster> pcalarco: Wrt. continuing to write on the wiki -- that seems like purely a News team decision -- whatever makes logical sense and ease for the contributors.
15:05:47 <pcalarco> stickster: as I think about it, I might try to see if I can just get a mailable copy from Drupal once we have the views working
15:06:02 <stickster> pcalarco: I think I remember you saying you had some Drupal experience
15:06:23 <pcalarco> if I have to in step 4 go back to the wiki, I essentially have a contruct the entire issue over there, which seems more work than it should be
15:07:17 <pcalarco> stickster: yes, on the content admin side; there may be some modules that might help us with stuff like this
15:08:25 <stickster> pcalarco: Agreed re: step 4.  We ought to be able to shave that step.
15:09:42 <stickster> pcalarco: So for the book pages you just worked on -- you cleaned each one manually in the text?
15:09:58 <pcalarco> Yes, inserted some strong tags and such
15:10:45 <stickster> OK. I know the Flexifilter example is supposed to take care of things like [[ ]], '' and ''' -- so if that's not working, maybe I broke it when I was playing around.
15:11:18 <pcalarco> stickster: yeah, no problem
15:11:18 * stickster tries a fresh copy
15:11:52 <stickster> pcalarco: I'd like to see the step of publishing be as quick and painless as possible.
15:12:14 <pcalarco> stickster: agreed; the real value added to this is the content
15:12:51 <stickster> #agreed We want to shave as much work as possible out of (1) editor trimming or massaging content, or (2) editor going back to the wiki to do more post-processing
15:13:06 <stickster> pcalarco: OK, this helped a lot from my POV
15:13:16 <stickster> I'm going to work on the Flexifilters first, which is going to be the biggest win for everyone
15:13:26 <stickster> It might even make the content writers want to simply enter the stuff into Insight.
15:13:55 <pcalarco> stickster: its still busted somewhere: http://publictest4.fedoraproject.org/drupal/node/2
15:14:10 <stickster> Yup
15:14:25 <stickster> pcalarco: http://publictest4.fedoraproject.org/drupal/node/11 <-- my existing test page
15:14:48 <stickster> I put a set of simple wikitext lines there that shouldn't be hard to pass through. I'll need to do some debugging on this, for sure.
15:17:06 <stickster> pcalarco: OK, I'm going to stop logging, put my head down for a few minutes and work on flexifilters before I head to the gymn
15:17:09 <stickster> *gym
15:17:32 <pcalarco> stickster: sounds good, thanks!
15:17:45 <stickster> #endmeeting