04:33:49 <pravins> #startmeeting g11n
04:33:49 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec  2 04:33:49 2015 UTC.  The chair is pravins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
04:33:49 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
04:33:49 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'g11n'
04:33:49 <pravins> #meetingname g11n
04:33:49 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'g11n'
04:33:49 <pravins> #topic agenda and roll call
04:33:52 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Meetings/2015-12-02
04:34:11 <pravins> Who available for meeting today?
04:34:14 <mfabian> Hi!
04:34:15 <tagoh_> hi
04:34:19 <ueno> hi
04:34:37 <epico> hi
04:35:06 <pravins> hi mfabian tagoh_ ueno epico :)
04:35:13 <pravins> #chair mfabian tagoh_ ueno epico
04:35:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: epico mfabian pravins tagoh_ ueno
04:35:34 <paragan> hi
04:35:51 <fujiwarat> hi
04:35:51 <pravins> hi paragan :)
04:36:02 <aeng> hi pravins
04:36:08 <noriko> hi praveenkumar
04:36:13 <noriko> doh, sorry praveenkumar
04:36:17 <noriko> hi pravins
04:36:26 <pravins> hi noriko aeng :)
04:36:30 <mkim> hi
04:36:31 <pravins> #chair aeng noriko pahuang
04:36:31 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeng epico mfabian noriko pahuang pravins tagoh_ ueno
04:36:35 <pravins> hi mkim :)
04:36:39 <pravins> #chair mkim
04:36:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeng epico mfabian mkim noriko pahuang pravins tagoh_ ueno
04:37:03 <pravins> Lets try to complete this meeting quickly.
04:37:15 <pravins> We have to change our method for Fedora 24.
04:37:41 <pravins> Instead of discussing things in meeting, we should discuss it in mailing list.
04:38:08 <pravins> Mailing list provide more visibility and more chance to get attention and response from more people. Even if one passive reader that is fine.
04:38:31 <juhp> hi
04:38:45 <smaitra> hi
04:38:50 <pravins> hi smaitra juhp :)
04:39:15 <pravins> let me know if anyone feels we should discuss more in meeting.
04:39:38 <aeng_> sorry guys, disconnected
04:39:46 <pravins> aeng_: no problem :)
04:40:19 <juhp> personally I like to have highlights in the the meeting at least - but moving long discussion to mail sounds good
04:41:10 <pravins> true.
04:41:40 <noriko> +1, discuss on ML, and any item needs vote we can do it during meeting?
04:42:08 <pravins> yeah, if someone wants to provide votes he can join meeting.
04:42:09 <pravins> make sense.
04:42:12 <aeng> +1
04:42:53 <pravins> #info Moving long discussions of L10N and Zanata to mailing list and for agreements votes will be taken in meeting.
04:43:33 <pravins> it also means, all of us should be more active on g11n or either trans or at least in some mailing list.
04:43:57 <aeng> agree
04:44:14 <pravins> great, so lets see how it goes for Fedora 24 :)
04:44:19 <pravins> Lets see upcoming schedule
04:44:23 <pravins> #topic Upcoming schedule
04:44:27 <pravins> #info 2016-01-12 	Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (System Wide Changes)
04:44:28 <pravins> #info not scheduled yet 	Side Tag Builds Deadline
04:44:28 <pravins> #info not required 	Mass Rebuild
04:44:28 <pravins> #info 2016-02-02 	Branch Fedora 24 from Rawhide (Rawhide becomes future F25)
04:44:28 <pravins> #info 2016-02-16 	Alpha Freeze (*)
04:44:28 <pravins> #info 2016-02-16 	Software String Freeze
04:44:30 <pravins> #info 2016-02-16 	Change Checkpoint: Completion deadline (testable)
04:44:32 <pravins> #info 2016-02-16 	Bodhi activation point
04:45:10 <pravins> We still have around 1 month for Change proposals. But i am sure we are going to loose momentum around Christmas to 1st week of Jan.
04:45:21 <pravins> So good to complete things before Christmas.
04:45:32 <pravins> #topic G11N FAD
04:45:32 <pravins> #info #43: G11N FAD in 2015
04:45:32 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/43
04:45:58 <pravins> Thanks noriko mfabian for your reports.
04:46:15 <pravins> Any things from expense claims?
04:46:27 <pravins> or any pending item from FAD execution?
04:48:46 <pravins> It means everything is going well :)
04:49:07 <aeng> yup :)
04:49:24 <pravins> Moving to next topic
04:49:24 <pravins> #topic Zanata feedback survey
04:49:25 <pravins> #3: Zanata translation platform user survey
04:49:25 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/G11N/ticket/3
04:49:34 <pravins> Unfortunately i did not heard anything after FAD.
04:49:50 <pravins> Last time, i reviewed post of Luke.
04:50:08 <aeng> we've created few jira tickets from the feedback
04:50:23 <aeng> and from the response of the users
04:51:02 <pravins> #info Some Jira tickets has been created based on Zanata feedback.
04:51:53 <pravins> any chance to get survey blog post out soon?
04:52:19 <pravins> I think we can close the ticket once, community blog post is ready.
04:52:51 <pravins> aeng: can you communicate with Luke for it?
04:53:17 <aeng> alrighyt
04:53:32 <pravins> #action aeng to ping Luke for survey blog post.
04:53:38 <pravins> thanks aeng :)
04:53:44 <pravins> #topic Moving translation deadlines around Beta
04:53:44 <pravins> #2: Moving translation deadlines around Beta
04:53:45 <aeng> i will follow up with h im
04:54:00 <pravins> We had lots of debate in FAD about this and decided to skip this. :)
04:54:34 <noriko> pravins, yes confirmed.
04:55:01 <pravins> thanks noriko for you comment on ticket :)
04:55:02 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/G11N/ticket/2#comment:5
04:55:08 <pravins> i will close this ticket now.
04:55:16 <juhp> cool
04:55:44 <pravins> #action pravins to close #2
04:56:04 <pravins> Moving to most imp ticket of day.
04:56:18 <pravins> #topic L10N and Zanata planning for Fedora 24
04:56:23 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/G11N/ticket/16
04:56:54 <pravins> We done some planning for F24 already in FAD.
04:57:02 <pravins> #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/17LU-PmtuirbGd7wfxUuKTz7X6fsv82PVPgZaDELi4js/edit#
04:57:15 <pravins> Fedora 24 planning section.
04:57:36 <pravins> Lets go through quickly again through it and see what looks realistic for Fedora 24.
04:57:55 <pravins> One in marked bold are L10N and Zanata specific.
04:58:14 <pravins> #idea G11n Governance (Pravin)
04:58:26 <pravins> We already had discussion on this.
04:58:44 <pravins> Will definitely try during Fedora 24 development cycle.
04:58:57 <pravins> #action pravins to create wiki and send on trans mailing list for feedback.
04:59:04 <juhp> what is next step for the Governance?
04:59:22 <pravins> Before opening ticket with council we should discuss it in trans list.
04:59:34 <juhp> okay good
04:59:41 <pravins> there are many language specific lists, i am thinking to put this idea everywhere :)
04:59:54 <pravins> moving to next one.
05:00:02 <pravins> #idea L10n Sprints
05:00:13 <pravins> noriko and Ani ?
05:00:18 <juhp> so really about replacing FLSCo with FGSCo?
05:00:20 <pravins> Ani looks not available
05:00:47 <pravins> yes, FLSco is dead from number of year.
05:01:45 <noriko> there are few still active, so pls proceed this carefully and gain good number of consensus.
05:02:19 <pravins> noriko: yes will definitely do that.
05:02:30 <pravins> and that is why we want to move most of us our discussion to mailing list.
05:02:40 <noriko> :-)
05:02:44 <pravins> i dont feel in meeting we are getting sufficient voices.
05:02:53 <pravins> noriko: coming back to you again. What about L10N sprints?
05:02:53 * noriko nods
05:03:02 <pravins> are you planning particular one for Fedora 24?
05:03:25 <pravins> Its definitely should be not only you. But few more people should join and plan some day for many languages.
05:03:40 <noriko> atm, no plan for japanese I am self remote from Japan :`-(
05:03:43 <aeng> all the coordinators?
05:03:54 <pravins> noriko: it can be online sprint, not physical one.
05:03:58 <pravins> Just provide guidelines.
05:04:17 <pravins> aeng: yeah, it all coordinators can step up, that will be great.
05:04:28 <aeng> need 1 or more ppl to drive this
05:04:30 <pravins> noriko: can you put mail about this on trans list, lets discuss more there?
05:04:39 <aeng> ^agree
05:04:58 <noriko> am not confident with online sprint cz we do not have enough offline meetings.
05:05:24 <pravins> lets start discussion at least :)
05:05:33 <pravins> may be Ani can help you?
05:05:52 <pravins> may be we can get more supporters.
05:07:24 <pravins> noriko: can i add action item for you? so we can track same in next meeting again.
05:07:48 <noriko> pravins, to be honest, I have no idea where to start.
05:08:02 <pravins> sure. lets discuss this then.
05:08:04 <noriko> I am not coordinator even.
05:08:07 <aeng> noriko, contact coordiantor/mailing list
05:08:25 <aeng> propose a day/time for l10n sprint
05:08:32 <aeng> and see whats the response like
05:08:36 <pravins> +1
05:08:39 <noriko> I might be able to post the idea in trans ml,
05:08:42 <juhp> noriko, is there a better placed person to help - Piotr?
05:08:56 <pravins> noriko: exactly that is what expected. :)
05:09:06 <juhp> great
05:09:33 <pravins> #action noriko to post L10N sprint idea to trans mailing list.
05:09:43 <pravins> and all other to follow on trans mailing list.
05:10:01 <pravins> #idea Fedora G11n Wiki (Pravin, Michelle, et al)
05:10:22 <pravins> We have done important stuff in FAD itself, i.e. map for new Wiki
05:10:54 <pravins> thanks mkim for it :)
05:10:56 <juhp> noriko, btw is there a ml for coordinators?
05:11:06 <pravins> juhp: good point !!
05:11:07 <juhp> or that is trans list? :)
05:11:16 <noriko> juhp, no
05:11:28 <aeng> i think use trans-list would have more exposure
05:11:32 <noriko> we exchange on trans list
05:11:32 <juhp> noriko, should there be?
05:11:36 <juhp> okay
05:11:42 <noriko> +1 aeng
05:12:03 <noriko> juhp, I think having coordinators list can be too many MLs
05:12:34 <noriko> I prefer wider exposure as aeng suggested.
05:12:56 <pravins> we should make sure all coordinators are on trans list.
05:13:03 <aeng> agree
05:13:15 <aeng> alright, what the progress on WIKI?
05:13:28 <pravins> aeng: unfortunately not much :(
05:13:40 <pravins> But its very urgent and important part for all other activities.
05:13:57 <pravins> I will coordinate for it with others.
05:14:02 <aeng> i remember about the url redirection to be done from transifex to zaanta
05:14:11 <pravins> aha, is it done?
05:14:21 <pravins> yeah, fix in L10N wiki.
05:14:47 <noriko> pravins, am sure all coordinators on trans list :-)  otherwise they can't be coordinator.
05:15:01 <pravins> noriko: good one :) make sense.
05:15:19 <aeng> pravins, include me in the wiki task, might be able to hel pout
05:15:27 <pravins> thanks very useful.
05:15:33 <juhp> getting https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N ready would be a good first step?
05:15:55 <aeng> yup
05:16:11 <pravins> #action pravins aeng will coordinate for G11N wiki restructuring. Will drop email on list.
05:16:46 <pravins> yes.
05:17:04 <pravins> #action complete first https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N
05:17:24 <pravins> moving to next idea
05:17:28 <pravins> #idea String Breakage monitoring (Jens, Akira)
05:18:01 <pravins> juhp: tagoh_ any further idea on this.
05:18:14 <pravins> I think we are tracking in i18n side.
05:19:20 <pravins> We did not had any discussion last time, since juhp and tagoh_ both were not available :)
05:19:25 <juhp> I have been thinking about it a little...
05:19:37 <tagoh_> not started to work on that but we know where upstream repo is from zanata. it could be used to check by comparing the POT in zanata and upstream?
05:20:08 <pravins> nice idea.
05:20:24 <pravins> How about discussing this as well in mailing list? Even devel list is fine i think.
05:20:54 <juhp> my current idea is to try track koji builds for some specific packages looking for string changes
05:21:36 <fujiwarat> upstream is unstable.
05:21:55 <juhp> part of it might be also tracking out of date POT/po files
05:21:59 <pravins> umm, to me comparing .pot periodically or with script looks more promising.
05:22:33 <pravins> #idea String breakage monitoring - 1. Comparing POT in Zanata and upstream.
05:22:43 <aeng> how often do we check?
05:22:55 <pravins> We do not
05:23:01 <aeng> or plan to do the comparison?
05:23:16 <tagoh_> assuming that they are properly branching and link to zanata. if it doesn't work, they might use zanata  wrongly I suppose.
05:23:57 <pravins> aeng: that is idea proposed by tagoh_ and juhp  , to have some script or automation.
05:24:23 <juhp> what is in zanata might not be in fedora though
05:24:29 <aeng> yup
05:24:45 <pravins> #idea String breakage monitoring - 1. Track Koji builds for some specific packages looking for string changes.
05:24:48 <tagoh_> juhp: right. so need to pick up projects we want to keep on track
05:25:06 <juhp> aeng, I would suggest daily or whenever there is a build - depending on the approach we take
05:25:16 <pravins> as we discussed Anacodda is major candidate here :)
05:25:31 <juhp> tagoh_, ah no - I mean strings in zanata might not be in fedora :)
05:25:44 <juhp> additionally we might want to track projects not in Zanata
05:26:16 <aeng> so the script might need to be dynamic enough
05:26:25 <juhp> but leveraging zanata for this certainly also makes some sense :)
05:26:52 <juhp> or maybe we should look at both zanata, upstream and package content
05:27:06 <juhp> aeng, yeah
05:27:13 <tagoh_> juhp: what is the original POT to compare then? checking on the buildsys would need a cache to check right?
05:27:41 <juhp> tagoh_, right so the script might have to generate/cache POT files even
05:28:23 <juhp> but if we really what to track fedora string breakage then seems to me we need to look at what is actually in Fedora
05:29:51 <juhp> also s/breakage/changes/
05:30:16 <pravins> yeah, comparing with Fedora make sense
05:30:23 <tagoh_> hm, that said those translations are coming from zanata :)
05:31:30 <tagoh_> and detecting on the build time doesn't address anything. we can just know "they broke it again".
05:31:34 <pravins> We are moving bit over time again. ;)
05:32:19 <pravins> how about discussing in mailing list?
05:32:26 <aeng> should discuss this more in mailing list
05:32:30 <pravins> right
05:32:32 <juhp> tagoh_, what about gnome too - we might want to track it too
05:32:34 <aeng> and move to next topic
05:32:40 <pravins> tagoh_: would you like to drop an email with this idea?
05:32:51 <tagoh_> pravins: sure
05:32:56 <pravins> thanks :)
05:33:21 <pravins> #action tagoh_ to drop email in mailing list g11n/devel regarding string breakage monitoring project.
05:33:29 <pravins> #idea F24 package groups in Fedora Zanata
05:33:32 <tagoh_> juhp: it might be a bit special. they have their own policy for string freeze and breakage right?
05:33:48 <juhp> tagoh_, but I take your point that upstream is closer to the problem
05:33:50 <pravins> i dont know who proposed this.
05:34:17 <pravins> noriko: we had good discussion about this in FAD. May be same thing again.
05:34:39 <pravins> #idea Badges for L10n contributions in Zanata (Alex)
05:34:41 <aeng> yeah.. i think its about the grouping of package into different tiers
05:34:48 <juhp> I still feel it would be useful though to get more of a picture on Fedora string breakage and it could also be applied for other OS
05:35:00 <pravins> aeng: do you think this possible in Fedora 24, badges?
05:35:04 <aeng> pravins, i will chat with you after this on this topics
05:35:12 <pravins> sure, lets discuss about it later.
05:35:25 <pravins> #action pravins aeng to discuss on L10N badges and update later.
05:36:01 <pravins> Other ideas we discussed in i18n meeting already.
05:36:19 <pravins> with this i think we done with all topics.
05:36:31 <pravins> moving to last topic
05:36:33 <juhp> for gnome maybe it should be more about translation stats regressions
05:36:41 <pravins> #topic Open Floor
05:37:34 <pravins> If nothing here, lets close in next couple of minutes
05:40:02 <pravins> I hoping in coming days discussions load in meeting will be reduced by using more mailing lists.
05:40:03 <pravins> Thanks all for meeting. :)
05:40:06 <pravins> #endmeeting