06:00:49 <pravins> #startmeeting g11n (i18n specific)
06:00:49 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb  3 06:00:49 2016 UTC.  The chair is pravins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:00:49 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:00:49 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'g11n_(i18n_specific)'
06:01:03 <pravins> #meetingname g11n (i18n)
06:01:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'g11n_(i18n)'
06:01:07 <pravins> #topic agenda and roll call
06:01:07 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2016-02-03
06:01:12 <paragan> Hi
06:01:15 <epico> hi
06:01:17 <jibecfed> hi
06:01:31 <pravins> hi paragan epico jibecfed :)
06:01:45 <tagoh_> hi
06:01:52 <mfabian> Hi!
06:01:56 <pravins> hi tagoh_ mfabian :)
06:02:30 <suanand> Hi
06:02:40 <pravins> jibecfed: glad to see you in meeting :)
06:03:00 <pravins> #chair paragan epico jibecfed tagoh_ mfabian suanand
06:03:00 <zodbot> Current chairs: epico jibecfed mfabian paragan pravins suanand tagoh_
06:03:16 <jibecfed> pravins: it's early, but I wanted to have a look
06:03:38 <pravins> jibecfed: good you are here, i am about to propose bit late time than this. May be 2 hr later.
06:03:52 <pravins> Will discuss in OpenFloor
06:04:13 <pravins> lets see upcoming schedule
06:04:14 <pravins> #topic Upcoming schedule
06:04:14 <pravins> #info 2016-02-23 	Branch Fedora 24 from Rawhide (Rawhide becomes future F25)
06:04:14 <pravins> #info 2016-03-08 	Alpha Freeze (*)
06:04:14 <pravins> #info 2016-03-08 	Software String Freeze
06:04:15 <pravins> #info 2016-03-08 	Change Checkpoint: Completion deadline (testable)
06:04:17 <pravins> #info 2016-03-08 	Bodhi activation point
06:04:19 <pravins> #info 2016-03-22 	Alpha Release
06:05:06 <pravins> Still mass build has been not started..
06:05:35 <paragan> yes there are some issues still pending from gcc, glibc, dnf
06:06:00 <paragan> I think gcc issues should have been fixed but not sure about dnf issues
06:06:20 <pravins> aha, hope so it will not introduce one more week slip :)
06:06:29 <paragan> not sure yet
06:06:30 <pravins> already 3 week slip, if i remember correctly.
06:06:41 <pravins> thanks paragan for info.
06:06:59 <pravins> #topic New topics
06:07:03 <pravins> #info Dev Conf 2016 Meetup plan
06:07:03 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Meetup_DevConf_2016
06:07:22 <pravins> present me, noriko and zoltan are confirmed.
06:07:26 <pravins> mfabian: how about you?
06:07:58 <mfabian> pravins: I am going to devconf,checking link ...
06:08:03 <juhp> hi!
06:08:08 <pravins> hi juhp :)
06:08:13 <pravins> #chair juhp
06:08:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: epico jibecfed juhp mfabian paragan pravins suanand tagoh_
06:08:51 <pravins> mfabian: excellent. Will be very nice if you can talk on Glibc Subpackaging progress with me during talk :)
06:10:02 <pravins> I will be in Bruno by 6pm. Staying in Avanti Hotel
06:10:12 <mfabian> pravins: Good, I’ll be in Brno from Thu 4th 16:00 to Sun 7th 14:00.
06:10:52 <mfabian> (Times changed because Corinna became ill and cannot drive and I take the bus now). I’ll stay in Hostel Fleda.
06:11:21 <pravins> happy you are there :)
06:12:14 <pravins> jibecfed: will you be there for DevConf? just an query.
06:12:25 <jibecfed> nope, too far i'm afraid ;)
06:12:54 <pravins> no problem, may be next time we can plan better :)
06:13:19 <pravins> I am still struggling to find suitable time for meetup, so it will not conflict with other planned meeetups
06:13:29 <pravins> hoping will have some information by tomorrow.
06:13:38 <jibecfed> you gave the information at the right time, but it was just not possible for me
06:14:56 <pravins> i can understand. will make sure to communicate all updates with you all. :)
06:15:14 <jibecfed> pravins: thanks :)
06:15:26 <pravins> #info still not found suitable time for g11n meetup at DevConf2016 with avoiding parallel meetups.
06:15:33 <pravins> #info #57: Fedora 24 change planning (pravins)
06:15:33 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/57
06:16:43 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LangpacksInstallationWithRPMWeakDependencies
06:17:04 <pravins> Langpacks Installation With RPM Weak Dependencies
06:17:32 <paragan> hope to see this get approved in this week fesco meeting but not sure
06:17:39 <pravins> I earlier thought this is accepted already.
06:17:43 <paragan> as some members are at devconf
06:18:02 <pravins> aha..meeting is today itself, right?
06:18:14 <paragan> no we shift to Friday's
06:19:01 <jibecfed> yesterday Jens gave some more information on mailing list, but I thinks we should have a "todo" to explain how to contribute, somethink like what we have for appdata
06:20:13 <jibecfed> we'll see after the decision is taken (or not)
06:20:41 <juhp> jibecfed, yeah - most of the remaining work will be updating packages that have langpacks
06:21:31 <juhp> thanks for your mail asking
06:21:34 <jibecfed> juhp:a package that have language specific packages (ie : latexila) can be handle ?
06:22:04 <juhp> I am not familiar with latexila
06:22:27 <jibecfed> I mean : when it's not a language package to have interface translation, but dependencies that only exist for one language (like local text formating)
06:23:04 <jibecfed> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1294520
06:23:45 <juhp> jibecfed, ah see http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/rpminfo?rpmID=7220523 - well it could done perhaps
06:23:47 * pravins checking
06:24:28 <juhp> jibecfed, currently we are not really planning to subpackage/langpack everything - just large things... or more updating packages that already subpackaged
06:25:07 <juhp> but perhaps down the road - and sure any packager can take advantage of this now if they want too - I expect we may see more for f25
06:26:09 <pravins> aha, now understood.
06:27:05 <juhp> in theory one could langpack every package that has any translations (eg gnome-*) but the number of binary packages will be huge - I don't think it is a good idea until we have a better way of handling it within rpm/dnf/koji
06:27:21 <jibecfed> juhp, Ok, I'll be glad to help reporting issues when testing new packages, so if we understand covered use cases it would be perfect (I mean : newbie information)
06:28:07 <pravins> Right, subpackages will be huge. Definitely good topic to discuss..
06:28:08 <juhp> jibecfed, great!  Perhaps paragan can add some more details to the Change to give a bit more info
06:28:33 <paragan> may I know what more details need to be added there?
06:28:48 <juhp> jibecfed, the FPC ticket also have some details which may clarify things
06:29:08 <juhp> https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/593#comment:12
06:30:28 <paragan> juhp, I have created this page -> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Langpacks, its not yet complete but already linked to Change page.
06:30:59 <jibecfed> paragan: to explain wich uses cases are covered by the Change (and the one that are not), and how contributors can help
06:31:37 <paragan> okay I will try to add more information
06:31:41 <jibecfed> paragan: for the use cases, juhp's link can be reuse
06:32:02 <juhp> aha - yeah
06:32:15 <juhp> paragan, thanks
06:33:00 <juhp> also scope probably as jibecfed points out
06:33:03 <paragan> actually I don't know the context of this discussion, I see something has been already discussed among jibecfed and juhp
06:33:19 <juhp> paragan, not much - i18n list :)
06:33:53 <jibecfed> yep, no more context
06:33:58 <paragan> okay but I don't see any email on i18n list
06:34:27 <jibecfed> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/i18n/2016-February/002144.html
06:34:28 <paragan> ah its in ticket discussion
06:34:30 <pravins> paragan: same discussion. Basically like Libreoffice and Firefox has subapackages for translations, so langpacks can pull it.
06:34:36 <paragan> I missed that email to read yet
06:34:41 <pravins> But other packages like s-c-l and iok does not have this.
06:34:45 <juhp> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/i18n/2016-February/002143.html
06:34:45 <pravins> So how to handle it.
06:35:01 <juhp> paragan, np
06:35:06 <pravins> Overall i think, theere is good scope to improve langpacks further
06:35:32 <pravins> Even i mentioned earlier. $Yum groupinstall was installing IME's and fonts but langpacks does not do it.
06:35:47 <pravins> so even that is also good topic for improving langpacks further.
06:35:55 <pravins> But off course step by step :)
06:35:56 <juhp> pravins, +1
06:36:14 <paragan> a lot can happen further, we just need this basic
06:36:20 <paragan> implementation to get approved
06:36:21 <juhp> right
06:36:25 <paragan> and added in Fedora.
06:36:28 <pravins> paragan: +1
06:36:56 <juhp> but I think input methods will probably wait for later release
06:37:00 <jibecfed> indeed
06:37:32 <juhp> hmm they can supplement ibus :)
06:37:50 <juhp> long time since I thought about that
06:38:45 <juhp> yeah pretty cool
06:38:55 <pravins> yes :)
06:39:32 <pravins> for other proposed change
06:39:48 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Glibc_locale_subpackaging
06:40:09 <pravins> mfabian: i think we can get few more interested people for glibc subpackaging at DevConf
06:40:12 <pravins> need to highlight this.
06:40:21 <mfabian> juhp: shouldn’t imes supplement langpacks as well instead of ibus?
06:40:23 <pravins> unfortunately so many parallel talks :(
06:41:11 <paragan> mfabian, the main work of langpacks is still to be tested
06:41:21 <juhp> mfabian, yes both
06:41:23 <paragan> we have not checked yet if anaconda installation can handle langpacks
06:41:42 <paragan> only that will give 100% achievement to langpacks
06:42:15 <juhp> Live users will have to install it afterwards
06:42:23 <mfabian> juhp: if it supplements ibus, wouldn't an ime be always installed when ibus is installed, independent of the language? I.e. you get all imes installed always?
06:42:56 <juhp> mfabian, I mean ibus-kkc would supplement ibus AND langpacks-ja
06:43:58 <juhp> paragan, I think anaconda will need to be tweaked
06:44:23 <mfabian> juhp: Ah, I see.
06:44:59 <juhp> anyway let's get the Change approved first :-)
06:45:00 <paragan> right
06:45:17 <pravins> yeah, i am sure it will get approved :)
06:45:29 <pravins> I am going to add slide for this change in DevConf talk..
06:45:36 <juhp> cool
06:46:37 <pravins> I hope, for Glibc Subpackaging we will get some boost in DevConf
06:47:23 <pravins> mfabian: dunno if Carlos O'Donell attending or now.
06:47:53 <mfabian> I’ll try to ask him. I pinged him yesterday but he was busy.
06:48:08 <pravins> nice
06:48:45 <pravins> fujiwarat: how about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ibus-fbterm_enhancement_for_ibus_1.5
06:48:57 <pravins> Does it need any attentions?
06:49:33 <fujiwarat> No, not specially.
06:49:37 <pravins> We need to update FLTG team for all these improvements
06:50:00 <pravins> so they can develop nice test cases. Specifically will be nice if they can help for Glibc subpackaing
06:50:11 <pravins> moving to next topic
06:50:12 <pravins> #info #57: Fedora 24 change planning (pravins)
06:50:12 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/57
06:50:52 * pravins again pasted same topic ;)
06:50:52 <pravins> #info #58: Prioritizing bugs for Fedora 24 release (pravins)
06:50:53 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/58
06:51:03 <pravins> This is very important part for us in Fedora 24
06:51:35 <pravins> unfortunately still no one has added any bugfixing plan to it :(
06:51:50 <pravins> but on the other hand we have so many bugs pending
06:53:29 <pravins> jibecfed: lets quickly go through process improvements you have suggested.
06:53:54 <juhp> maybe a link with all the bugs will help start?
06:54:06 <jibecfed> a few weeks ago, you created : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Fedora_24_G11N_Enhancements
06:54:47 <pravins> juhp: yeah, we have bugzilla stats on Agenda page. I will add those on ticket
06:54:51 <pravins> and send email again on list.
06:54:55 <juhp> cool
06:55:11 <pravins> jibecfed: yes, enhancements suggested are making sense.
06:55:25 <pravins> but we need to understand who are other involved groups into it.
06:55:27 <juhp> is it too late to wait for f24 to be branched?
06:56:40 <pravins> no, already couple of weeks slip.
06:56:51 <pravins> so looks ok
06:57:03 <pravins> #info  List Fedora website and tell translation status : is translatable ? if yes how ? if no why ?
06:57:19 <pravins> jibecfed: how many groups are involved in it.
06:57:31 <jibecfed> i have started that item, there are about 70 websites ...
06:57:34 <pravins> Zanata, Fedora Website and L10N, right?
06:57:39 <pravins> wow, that nice.
06:57:46 <pravins> Would you like to have ticket for it?
06:58:02 <pravins> so we can track status?
06:58:13 <jibecfed> I don't know, I think I'll create a wiki page, but we need
06:58:18 <pravins> ummy, so many questions marks  :(
06:58:24 <pravins> yeah, Wiki page is nice.
06:58:37 <jibecfed> to discuss with : infra team, website team, i18n team and l10n team
06:58:46 <pravins> perfect
06:59:02 <jibecfed> everithing is connected, and is sometimes a little bit messy
06:59:23 <pravins> #action pravins to create ticket for  "List Fedora website and tell translation status"
06:59:39 <pravins> yeah, may be lost some process and need to do it again.
06:59:42 <jibecfed> almost no tools are created with localization in mind
06:59:53 <juhp> true
07:00:01 <jibecfed> and almost nothing is ready in infrastructure
07:00:18 <jibecfed> for fedmenu : https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedmenu/issues/13
07:00:33 <jibecfed> for fedmsg : https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedmsg-notify/issues/21 that lead to https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedmsg_meta_fedora_infrastructure/issues/345
07:01:14 <jibecfed> so I'll finish my website listing, then it will need a lot of coordination ;)
07:02:02 <jibecfed> other item : i think " Specify minimum percentage of messages translated on pull. " is done
07:02:34 <pravins> jibecfed: looks perfect. I think we will meet few people i.e. Ralph from Infra and many other key people at Devconf, will ask them to address this.
07:02:49 <pravins> Also i liked "Make sure with Docs Team we'll never have to translate such difficult changelog as Perl's one"  :)
07:03:30 <pravins> info: " Refresh wiki's l10n pages for Teams "
07:03:34 <jibecfed> pravins: I think we need to have a global plan for "infra" internationalization, the work is huge
07:03:53 <jibecfed> and to do is step by step
07:04:14 <pravins> +1
07:04:23 <pravins> Refresh wiki page we can do in L10N
07:04:28 <jibecfed> for " Refresh wiki's l10n pages for Teams " => french page is done
07:04:47 <jibecfed> I can suggest other teams to do so also
07:05:30 <pravins> yeah, good to send email on list.
07:05:43 <pravins> with the update you have completed it.
07:06:48 <pravins> i think in next one week/month we should update this list with actually things we are going to do. Presently looks like 5 yrs plan ;)
07:07:04 <pravins> but most important thing is we have task written now.
07:07:22 <pravins> i hope, we can get more thing son i18n side on page soon.
07:07:56 <pravins> already we are over time
07:08:02 <pravins> lets see next topic quickly
07:08:14 <pravins> #topic New task
07:08:14 <pravins> #info #59: tracking of translation string changes (petersen)
07:08:14 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/59
07:08:29 <pravins> i think no improvement on this either  :)
07:08:44 <pravins> juhp: i am going to add slide for this as well in DevConf presentation.
07:09:05 <juhp> okay
07:09:16 <juhp> I think suanand is starting to think about it too
07:09:25 <pravins> wow nice
07:09:31 <suanand> juhp, yes
07:09:40 <jibecfed> this is a zanata issue, no a i18n, isn't it ?
07:09:41 <pravins> may be i should share slides with you all
07:09:53 <juhp> pravins, sounds good
07:09:55 <pravins> will add in Google docs
07:09:59 <juhp> great
07:09:59 <suanand> pravins, we will discuss more on this
07:10:00 <jibecfed> (or zanata wish for improvement)
07:10:05 <pravins> #action pravins to share slide link with all.
07:10:19 <pravins> suanand: definitely :)
07:10:21 <juhp> jibecfed, yes
07:11:26 <pravins> aeng is off from work for few days.
07:11:31 <pravins> moving to last topic
07:11:35 <pravins> #topic Open Floor
07:11:35 <pravins> #endmeeting