15:01:31 <sayan> #startmeeting hubs-devel
15:01:31 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Feb 28 15:01:31 2017 UTC.  The chair is sayan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:31 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:31 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'hubs-devel'
15:01:46 <sayan> #Topic Roll Call
15:01:50 <shillman> .hello wispfox
15:01:52 <zodbot> shillman: wispfox 'Suzanne Hillman' <wispfox@gmail.com>
15:01:56 <sayan> #topic Roll Call
15:02:10 <sayan> .hello sayanchowdhury
15:02:11 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
15:02:19 <jcline> .hello jcline
15:02:21 <zodbot> jcline: jcline 'Jeremy Cline' <jeremy@jcline.org>
15:02:35 <yuyu[m]> hello
15:03:27 <sayan> jcline: ^^ this message is late by 2 mins
15:04:06 <jcline> I wonder if that's a config value or something? I haven't looked into the implementation of the bridge yet
15:04:27 <sayan> jcline: yes, the configuration is huge
15:04:31 <sayan> I am still catching up
15:05:12 <jcline> Yeah, I'm not surprised. I run an ejabberd server and its configuration is quite large as well.
15:05:27 <sayan> this is the configuration file: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/blob/master/config.sample.yaml
15:06:21 <mizmo> .hello duffy
15:06:23 <zodbot> mizmo: duffy 'Máirín Duffy' <fedora@linuxgrrl.com>
15:06:51 <sayan> pingou: it would be great if you can connect with the matrix devs you know
15:07:32 <akash_> .hello akashkrishnan
15:07:33 <zodbot> akash_: akashkrishnan 'Akash Krishnan' <akashkrishnan705@gmail.com>
15:07:40 * pingou in a meeting, but sure sayan
15:08:10 <sayan> hey abompard: are you around?
15:08:32 <sayan> #chair shillman jcline mizmo akash_
15:08:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: akash_ jcline mizmo sayan shillman
15:08:51 <sayan> #topic action items from last meetings
15:09:06 <sayan> * mizmo to mock up config UI for halp widget
15:09:07 <sayan> * mizmo to mock up config UI for setting hub IRC channel
15:09:09 <sayan> * mizmo to start working on updating / iterating irc chat / user list
15:09:11 <sayan> widget mockups
15:09:13 <akash_> Hi everyone
15:09:13 <sayan> * shillman to finish transcriptions from prototype tests
15:09:15 <sayan> * shillmand and mizmo to get together to do prototype test analysis
15:09:17 <sayan> * jcline catch up on irc design and make sure we can communicate with
15:09:19 <sayan> the irc network during the registration wizard
15:09:21 <sayan> * abompard to work on custom config page for halp widget (dependant on
15:09:23 <sayan> mizmo mockup)
15:09:25 <sayan> * sayan to work to fix hubs-dev.fic
15:09:27 <sayan> * sayan to work to fix hubs-dev.fic
15:09:29 <sayan> * jcline to set up alembic for hubs
15:09:31 <sayan> * sayan to push endpoint docs after fhackdroid sets up vagrant
15:09:33 <sayan> * fhackdroid to set up vagrant for ircb
15:10:08 <sayan> akash_: hey
15:10:22 <sayan> mizmo: can you give an update on the action items?
15:10:39 <akash_> I am new to fedora and currently working with fedora-design team.
15:11:19 <mizmo> halp widget config is done: https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/325
15:11:34 <mizmo> setting irc channel for a hub, almost done, have to export and upload mockups
15:11:37 <mizmo> haven't started the irc chat list yet
15:11:38 <mizmo> thats it i think
15:11:41 <sayan> fhackdroid: are you around to share what all went through on setting up the vagrant box?
15:12:50 <mizmo> #action mizmo to finish irc channel for hub config mockup
15:12:53 <mizmo> #action mizmo to iterate IRC user list / chat mockups
15:12:53 <sayan> shillman: can you share about your updates?
15:14:02 <shillman> Sure! I'm mostly done with the transcripts; I've got the last half of the last one to finish today, and will then sort the info I got. Mizmo, I figure Thurs should work for getting together and analyzing the info.
15:14:03 <sayan> for me last week I was mostly working with autocloud as the we were nearing Change Checkpoint
15:14:26 <mizmo> shillman: sounds good
15:14:45 <shillman> Getting info from videos takes a long time and makes my brain tired. So I needed to take lots of breaks.
15:14:49 <shillman> mizmo: cool
15:15:06 <akash_> What is this meeting for actually? *sorry for interrupting in between*
15:15:07 <shillman> #action shillman to finish transcripts today
15:15:28 <shillman> #action shillman and mizmo to analyze info from usability sessions on Thursday
15:15:32 <jcline> akash_, the fedora hubs project
15:15:42 <sayan> akash_: during this meeting we discuss the progress on the hubs project
15:16:12 <sayan> should we discuss on the matrix project?
15:16:24 <jcline> So for my action item, I've been poking at matrix.org's reference server and IRC bridge (synapse)
15:16:26 <sayan> On what should be done going froward?
15:16:55 <jcline> Yeah. It sounds like you've looked at it more than I have since I just started setting up a server this morning.
15:17:03 <sayan> I was tinkering with the project for the last week
15:18:01 <mizmo> akash_: this is our weekly status meeting
15:18:24 <sayan> So matrix has a homeserver
15:18:36 <akash_> sayan: Cool
15:18:48 <sayan> and the message does to this place
15:19:12 <bexelbie> sayan, have you figured out how to handle access to channels that need nickauth with matrix?
15:19:22 * bexelbie was working with riot and had a fail there
15:19:32 <akash_> mizmo: Oh. So, all the community members will be attending this or only the fedora-hub people?
15:19:55 <sayan> bexelbie: I haven't tried that actually
15:20:04 <sayan> I just start out tinkering last week
15:22:04 <sayan> so there is a irc bridge that picks out the messages from IRC and pushes to the matrix room
15:22:53 <sayan> https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-node
15:23:30 <sayan> sorry wrong link, this is the one https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc
15:23:42 <sayan> matrix has just too many projects :)
15:24:14 <sayan> anyways if we start migrating we need to first see if matrix solves all our usecases
15:24:25 <sayan> like the one bexelbie mentioned about the nickauth
15:25:09 <mizmo> akash_: it's a fedora hubs meeting, so people who work on fedora hubs are in attendance
15:25:16 <jcline> It seems like registering is possible (https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues/248) but isn't yet a great user experience
15:25:59 <mizmo> bexelbie: thats doable, they're working on a UI for it but right now you message the IRC bot on matrix
15:25:59 <mizmo> well actually so theres a few things
15:26:01 <mizmo> if you lose your nick, your message IRC Application Service with !nick irc.freenode.net $NICK
15:26:01 <mizmo> so you use !nick instead of /nick and indicate the irc network
15:26:02 <mizmo> then you message nickserv and it's exactly the same
15:27:07 <akash_> mizmo: Okay. So, there is no issue for me to attend it, right? :p
15:27:56 <jcline> akash_, nope, welcome!
15:28:04 <sayan> akash_: there are a bunch of issues you can work on :)
15:28:10 <akash_> jcline: yo :)
15:28:20 * abompard is around, sorry for being late
15:28:26 <sayan> abompard: no issues :)
15:28:27 <shillman> akash_: welcome. :)
15:28:32 <sayan> #chair abompard
15:28:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: abompard akash_ jcline mizmo sayan shillman
15:28:47 <mizmo> the only weird thing that ive found is if you lose your nick, changing it, and that's the magic command
15:28:50 <akash_> sayan: I would like to get assign one
15:28:50 <akash_> shillman: Glad to be here :)
15:29:11 <jcline> So yeah, matrix seems to do everything we need (from my understanding, anyway)
15:29:31 <sayan> jcline: yes, another good thing is we can restrict also
15:29:37 <mizmo> you can recover your nick and identify with nickserv same as on freenode
15:29:41 <jcline> It also has the bonus of being a very active project, and mostly it's Python. Although the bridge is a node.js app :(
15:30:18 <sayan> like if we can restrict the channel that can be used
15:30:37 <sayan> the irc bridge has a setting for that
15:30:39 <jcline> Yeah
15:31:05 <jcline> Also if we use matrix hubs users could use the standard matrix clients like riot, right?
15:31:24 <sayan> jcline: I think yes
15:31:41 <jcline> That could be neat
15:31:58 <sayan> jcline: you can actually point to the custom homeserver
15:32:10 <sayan> so I think that should be possible
15:32:22 <jcline> Yeah. There's also mobile apps if people want that.
15:32:39 <jcline> (https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=im.vector.alpha)
15:32:51 <sayan> but there is one thing we need to put attention to is the https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse#help-synapse-eats-all-my-ram
15:33:04 <sayan> It's seems synapse eats a lot of RAM
15:33:20 <sayan> so it would be good if we can do some stress testing of the application
15:34:27 <sayan> I have seen random quits from matrix users, like yuyu[m] just rejoined
15:34:30 <jcline> Sounds like matrix.org runs on 3-4GB which (IMO) is pretty good
15:34:57 <jcline> Yeah, I wonder how many users they currently have
15:35:10 <sayan> jcline: yes, that's why I am not stressing on that point
15:35:19 <mizmo> i think we still need to do the funky freenode registration thing though.
15:35:36 <mizmo> riot can be configured to use a different homeserver
15:35:43 <sayan> mizmo: yes, I was actually looking to do a setup on fic
15:36:05 <mizmo> jcline: there is a diff between the fdroid and google play versions. the google play versoin uses some google cloud notification thing that saves battery life, fdroid doesn't use it, so the fdroid version tends to eqat battery (fwiw)
15:36:21 <jcline> Yeah
15:36:36 <jcline> It's super nice that they give you the choice though, so you don't need Google Play services
15:36:48 <jcline> So I'm already a fan of that
15:37:10 <sayan> mizmo: jcline: did you see the points smooge raised?
15:37:18 <mizmo> as of the past month or so theyve had a much larger than anticipated surge in users, one sec i can get the numbers
15:37:43 <mizmo> https://matrix.org/blog/2017/02/17/load-problems-on-the-matrix-org-homeserver/
15:37:49 <jcline> Yeah, I did. I actually had coffee with him yesterday.
15:37:52 <akash_> sayan: Any small novice task, I could start with? :)
15:37:53 <mizmo> that is some performance issues they hit
15:38:01 <mizmo> there was a related post that atlked about the user surge, trying to find it, it had numbers
15:38:26 <sayan> akash_: mizmo can give you some issues to work on
15:39:01 <sayan> jcline: abompard: mizmo: I am actually looking if we can setup matrix on fic
15:39:20 <sayan> so that we can see how it works and also the API
15:39:28 <akash_> sayan: sure :)
15:39:30 <mizmo> welp, not what i was looking for but it has the data :) https://twitter.com/matrixdotorg/status/828249188861349888
15:40:22 <sayan> mizmo: this is cool
15:40:50 <sayan> but we need to see how the bridge works, becuase right now there is a latency of 2 mins
15:41:03 <jcline> wow, those are pretty big numbers
15:41:17 <sayan> but as jcline said we need to figure out if that from some configuration
15:41:30 <sayan> or because of load
15:41:40 <jcline> Yeah, so I'd say we should investigate further, but I find matrix very promising
15:41:45 <sayan> becuase the time is mostly consistent I would put my bet on config
15:41:58 <mizmo> 700k accounts on matrix.org homeserver, 700k messages a day, 100k unbridged accounts 1500 federated servers
15:42:00 <mizmo> sayan: that would be awesome bc then we'd have our own namespace
15:42:02 <mizmo> for our channels on matrix
15:42:14 <sayan> jcline: same here, given the future possibilities
15:42:44 <jcline> And it's got a lot of people working on it, a big deployment (where they're ironing out performance problems), etc.
15:44:30 <sayan> jcline: btw, how was the dicussion with smooge?
15:45:22 <sayan> did you discuss on the legal issues he mentioned?
15:45:25 <jcline> It was good, but I basically told him I didn't really know if all the legal details had been investigated
15:46:10 <mizmo> btw their fosdem talks from a couple of weeks or so ago are online now
15:46:12 <mizmo> https://fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/encrypting_matrix/
15:46:18 <mizmo> https://fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/matrix_future/
15:46:21 <mizmo> slides are here
15:46:26 <mizmo> https://matrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2017-02-03.1-FOSDEM-Encrypting-Matrix.pdf (encryption talk)
15:46:26 <mizmo> https://matrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2017-02-04-FOSDEM-Future.pdf (decentralization talk)
15:46:36 <mizmo> yeh they had a blog post i cant seem to find somewhat recently where they talked about theri growth and they had planned for like, 100k accounts at most
15:48:04 <jcline> Thanks mizmo, I'll definitely look into those
15:48:18 <sayan> mizmo: this looks good
15:48:29 <mizmo> did we decide on react?
15:48:30 <mizmo> matrix has a react sdk
15:48:33 <jcline> I currently run an XMPP server for personal use, but I'm considering switching to Matrix
15:49:10 <jcline> We definitely depend on react currently
15:49:10 <sayan> mizmo: react was mostly for revamping the hubs interface
15:49:52 <sayan> I don't think matrix react sdk would be of much help
15:50:17 <sayan> But I'm not sure I need to look into it then
15:51:48 <sayan> jcline: mizmo abompard: I think matrix is good to go if everything works and we are able to resolve the queries from the infra team?
15:52:18 <jcline> +1
15:53:02 <abompard> yup
15:53:53 <mizmo> http://i.imgur.com/S7yU7QT.png  <= comparison for xmpp
15:53:53 <akash_> mizmo: Matrix is also a part of fedora-hub?
15:53:55 <mizmo> arch diagram => http://i.imgur.com/VwGf9BQ.png
15:54:22 <sayan> I will then go ahead and put an RFR on fedora-infrastructure for fic instance
15:56:24 <jcline> akash_, we want to provide an nice way for people to participate in IRC without having to set up a client and bouncer. We're hopeful we can use Matrix (a difference project) to do that.
15:56:42 <mizmo> sounds good to me
15:56:59 <sayan> jcline: btw, I saw you pushed the alembic script. I was actually looking the complete revision containing the db changes
15:57:42 <sayan> the reason is that I need to do migrations in hubs-devel.fic
15:57:48 <jcline> sayan, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Did you want specific migrations?
15:58:05 <sayan> jcline: yes, the complete intial migration
15:58:28 <jcline> What schema is currently in use for hubs-devel.fic?
15:58:53 <sayan> jcline: I don't know threebean did the setup
15:59:08 <sayan> I can see the db in /var/hubs.db
15:59:25 <jcline> Oh. Well I'm not sure how to write a migration from what is out there to what we currently have.
15:59:25 <sayan> but don't know how that was created, maybe via python terminal
15:59:39 <jcline> Do you have a commit that hubs-devel.fic is running?
15:59:52 <sayan> jcline: okay, then I'll go ahead and write it
16:00:18 <jcline> okay
16:00:46 <sayan> #action sayan to work on the migration for hubs and start hubs-devel.fic
16:00:56 <akash_> jcline: So, how matrix works? :)
16:01:46 <jcline> akash_, that's what we aim to find out :)
16:02:39 <sayan> akash_: we are planning to move to matrix to build our IRC widget, so we are right now in figuring out stage :)
16:02:41 <sayan> http://matrix.org/docs/spec/
16:03:44 <sayan> anything else?
16:03:54 <jcline> I don't have anything at the moment
16:04:34 <sayan> mizmo: shillman: abompard: akash_ anything to share?
16:04:38 <akash_> jcline: sayan , So the idea is to make a IRC client where the user do not have to sign up in IRC, am I going right?
16:05:04 <shillman> No, I just need to finish the transcript and start summarizing for a meeting with Mo. :)
16:05:22 <shillman> mizmo: when are you available on Thursday? And when did you want to try to reschedule me meeting SJ?
16:05:26 <akash_> Something like user-friendly and fedora associated, independent client?
16:05:29 <sayan> shillman: btw, did you get more responses to the survey?
16:05:51 <sayan> akash_: http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2017/01/31/helping-new-users-get-on-irc/
16:05:57 <shillman> sayan: Yes! We're at 130 responses now. :)
16:06:04 <shillman> ~half of which are from emea.
16:06:17 <sayan> cool :)
16:06:27 <sayan> akash_: and this http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2017/02/08/helping-new-users-get-on-irc-part-2/
16:06:36 <sayan> cool then I am going and ending the meeting
16:06:39 <sayan> #endmeeting