14:01:28 <sayan> #startmeeting hubs-devel
14:01:28 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep  5 14:01:28 2017 UTC.  The chair is sayan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:28 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:28 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'hubs-devel'
14:01:36 <sayan> #topic Roll Call
14:01:40 <sayan> .hello sayanchowdhury
14:01:42 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
14:01:43 <abompard> .hello abompard
14:01:45 <zodbot> abompard: abompard 'Aurelien Bompard' <aurelien@bompard.org>
14:02:37 * sayan waits for mizmo
14:02:49 <mizmo> .hello duffy
14:02:54 <zodbot> mizmo: duffy 'Máirín Duffy' <fedora@linuxgrrl.com>
14:02:58 <mizmo> can you see my messages?
14:03:03 <sayak> sayan, hey
14:03:04 <sayan> mizmo: yes
14:03:04 <abompard> mizmo: I can
14:03:08 <mizmo> cool :)
14:03:11 <sayak> .hello sayak
14:03:12 <zodbot> sayak: sayak 'Sayak Mukherjee' <sayakmukherjee1987@rediffmail.com>
14:03:17 <sayak> .hello sayaksarkar
14:03:18 <zodbot> sayak: sayaksarkar 'Sayak Sarkar' <sayak.bugsmith@gmail.com>
14:03:43 <sayan> #topic Flock 2017
14:03:54 <abompard> That went well :-)
14:04:08 <sayan> Yeah, I'll just write of what happened
14:04:15 <abompard> :+1:
14:04:55 <mizmo> your blog post about flock was great abompard
14:05:03 <abompard> mizmo: thanks :)
14:05:08 <sayan> Last week, abompard, mizmo, shillman were at Flock
14:05:21 <abompard> and a2batic too! ;-)
14:05:26 <sayan> ah! right
14:05:29 <sayan> a2batic too
14:05:44 <abompard> (and yourself, obviously)
14:06:04 <sayan> haha
14:06:22 <sayan> first world problems, forgetting myself
14:06:33 <abompard> this is very zen of you.
14:06:55 <sayan> So, the first talk was about Hubs, where we a got a good audience and a good enthusiam about the project
14:07:20 <sayan> post talk, a logout bug was discovered (a critical bug)
14:07:43 <sayan> abompard fixed it, but we still get logged in after log out, iirc
14:08:00 <sayan> this is because we are still logged with the ipsilon
14:08:11 <abompard> sayan: yeah there's no way around that until the single-log-out spec is done
14:08:19 <sayan> yes
14:09:26 <sayan> next talk by mizmo, where she talked on patternlab and discussed the learning from hubs and how the apps in the Fedora ecosystem can be benifit from it
14:09:50 <shillman> Hey, what about my talk? :)
14:09:52 <shillman> :P
14:10:07 <sayan> shillman: next I was writing your talk only :)
14:10:36 <shillman> Ah
14:11:15 <sayan> and then shillman and mizmo talked on the regional hubs, that was a good talk giving a deep insight on thinking that goes before designing the wireframes and the mockups
14:13:05 <sayan> abompard: do you want to discuss the things with sayak now?
14:13:31 <abompard> sayan: we have planned to talk about it after the meeting
14:13:43 <sayan> abompard: ok, cool
14:14:19 <sayan> I will then go forward, I don't want to continue the meeting for long today
14:14:34 <sayan> but would like to have a few things to focus going forward
14:14:43 <sayan> and we can comments on that
14:15:17 <mizmo> also a note, im meeting with the cornell students today, im still unclear what i should have them work on. (we talked about maybe widgets for packagers?)
14:15:57 <sayan> widgets for packagers and the meetings
14:16:06 <sayan> these two can be focussed on
14:16:21 <mizmo> the meeting widgets are already designed tho - the project is for UX
14:16:28 <sayan> mizmo: ah! ok
14:16:29 <abompard> mizmo: right, I mentionned the idea of implementing the Package Review Process in a widget, with links to the next step for each package state, however I understand that designing for packagers hasn't been very successful in the past
14:16:52 <abompard> so I don't know if it's actually a good idea
14:16:56 <mizmo> oh right, the package review process specifically. cool. ill send them the doc. any ideas on who i could have them interview about it?
14:17:12 <sayan> abompard: but then it would not be good for regular packagers
14:17:21 <sayan> but packagers like me who don't package everyday
14:17:30 <sayan> it would be really good tool
14:17:34 <abompard> yeah, there are different type of packagers
14:17:56 <mizmo> so a specific focus on packagers who dont do it every day is important
14:18:02 <abompard> I think so
14:18:05 <sayan> Yeah
14:18:19 <sayan> but it would be good to interview the ones who are regular packagers
14:18:22 <abompard> those who have time to forget the process between new packages / updates
14:18:36 <sayan> we would like to cover the maximum audience as possible
14:19:01 <mizmo> i think the experienced packagers have scripts they likely won't change from
14:19:11 <mizmo> the was the hard lesson we learned with fedora packages + my fedora
14:19:53 <mizmo> would this widget live on a packagers group hub, or should we aim for it to live on an individual packager's hub / personal stream page?
14:20:01 <abompard> I don't know if you've ever seen this graph of the number of contributions to the kernel per person
14:20:23 <abompard> but basically very few people are contributing a huge amount of code changes
14:20:28 <mizmo> i havent! ive seen a by company / org breakdown
14:20:39 <abompard> and a huge amount of people are contributing very little
14:20:47 <mizmo> a long tail
14:20:55 <abompard> but it's those people that make the quality of the kernel
14:21:08 <abompard> because they're testing corner cases
14:21:13 <abompard> they have an unusual config
14:21:19 <mizmo> are they one-time contribs or do they come back just infrequently?
14:21:20 <abompard> or a huge cluster, etc
14:21:39 <mizmo> im thinking theres probably a bunch of fedora packagers who come in maybe once a release
14:21:46 <abompard> it ends with one-time contribs, yeah, but there are also infrequent contribs
14:21:57 <abompard> yeah, I think it's very valuable to target those people
14:22:12 <abompard> because they are the only way we can grow without hiring more people
14:22:30 <mizmo> doing it with hubs though, wouldn't make sense unless they also do other things in fedora
14:22:52 <abompard> well, if they have their package state in their personal hub page, it may help
14:22:53 <mizmo> e.g. if the only thing they do is package something every 6 months, they might not have any reason to log into hubs, and an email alert kind of thing would be better
14:23:04 <mizmo> they'd need some other reason to log into hubs though
14:23:11 <mizmo> so they'd need to be involved with another team
14:23:31 <abompard> mizmo: if they know they have a wizard there that will take them through the packaging process, it may help
14:23:45 <abompard> it may be convincing enough to login, no?
14:23:46 <sayan> abompard: +1
14:24:05 <mizmo> i dont know how common it is, to package regularly but infrequently, and to be involved in another team - i don't have an idea. but, i do suspect some of these folks are upstream packaging their app for fedora and they are only involved in fedora for that, in which case they wouldn't log into hubs regularly
14:24:55 <mizmo> abompard: do you think hubs is the right place to have package review tool or would it be better as a separate tool that hubs has a widget for?
14:25:19 <abompard> mizmo: hmm yeah I agree. It may be too complicated for a widget
14:26:00 <abompard> but once they have packaged and submitted something, they may find it easier to go to hubs to look at the status than to go to the different tools
14:26:17 <abompard> (bugzilla, pagure, bodhi, etc)
14:26:27 <mizmo> abompard: what i was thinking of for hubs is a status list of pending submissions (for reviewers and submitters) but the actual process is handled elsewhere
14:26:32 <mizmo> yeh
14:26:57 <mizmo> another widget i was thinking of is something similar but for fedora magazine - pending articles
14:27:08 <mizmo> and maybe a widget with stats on published articles
14:27:10 <abompard> yeah I agree. Just tracking the state is enough
14:27:21 <abompard> mizmo: good idea!
14:27:54 <mizmo> maybe i will give them some options and see what they want to work on
14:28:05 <sayan> abompard: do we have any app in whose context the packager review can be integrated?
14:28:06 <abompard> okay
14:28:13 <mizmo> our priority users were design, marketing, commops, i18n (on hold)
14:28:24 <mizmo> i think the magazine widgets would be good for marketing
14:28:28 <mizmo> i can ask commops for their ideas
14:28:36 <mizmo> and i can give them the package review status widget as an option too
14:29:08 <abompard> sayan: no, we have bugzilla for the review, pagure for the repo changes, bodhi for the updates, etc
14:29:45 <abompard> mizmo: yeah let's keep the focus on the folks who have less tools already
14:30:00 <sayan> in that case, we should start building widgets combining multiple tools
14:30:08 <sayan> or process that combines multiple process
14:30:24 <mizmo> yeh thats the thing i think is really neat about the package review widget is combining multiple tools in one view
14:31:01 <abompard> it's probably going to be more complex than getting pending articles from wordpress, though
14:31:12 <abompard> they should be aware of that
14:31:17 <sayan> Yeah
14:31:39 <mizmo> yeh
14:32:07 <mizmo> i dont know yet the skill set my group has, i'll find out during the meeting. they may be pure ux without development experience
14:32:21 <abompard> mizmo: ok, that's cool too
14:33:15 <mizmo> ok i think i know what to do, thanks :)
14:33:29 <sayan> +1
14:33:39 <abompard> cool
14:34:53 <sayan> I will drop the mail with the points I wanted to discuss, too much jetlagged
14:35:02 <sayan> over in the mailing list
14:35:31 <mizmo> okay
14:35:42 <sayan> if not anything else, I can go over an end this meeting
14:36:01 <sayan> #endmeeting