13:03:46 <sayan> #startmeeting hubs-devel 13:03:46 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Nov 28 13:03:46 2017 UTC. The chair is sayan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 13:03:46 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 13:03:46 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'hubs-devel' 13:04:24 <sayan> #topic Roll Call 13:04:31 <shaily> .hello 13:04:31 <zodbot> shaily: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1". 13:04:35 <mizmo> .hello duffy 13:04:36 <zodbot> mizmo: duffy 'Máirín Duffy' <fedora@linuxgrrl.com> 13:04:39 <sayan> .hello sayanchowdhury 13:04:40 <shaily> .hello shaily 13:04:40 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com> 13:04:43 <zodbot> shaily: shaily 'None' <shaily15297@yahoo.com> 13:05:09 <mleonova> .hello mleonova 13:05:10 <zodbot> mleonova: mleonova 'Maria Leonova' <mleonova@redhat.com> 13:05:52 <sayan> mleonova: hey 13:05:56 <sayan> abompard: aroudn? 13:06:01 <mleonova> hi sayan 13:06:08 <fm-hubs> pagure.issue.comment.added -- ryanlerch commented on ticket fedora-hubs#469: "Subscriptions / Joining a Hub / Starring a Hub" https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/469#comment-481687 13:06:09 * sayan waits for abompard for some time 13:06:15 <ryanlerch> .hello ryanlerch 13:06:16 <zodbot> ryanlerch: ryanlerch 'Ryan Lerch' <rlerch@redhat.com> 13:06:18 <sayan> #chair shaily mizmo ryanlerch mleonova 13:06:18 <zodbot> Current chairs: mizmo mleonova ryanlerch sayan shaily 13:06:36 <abompard> .hello abompard 13:06:37 <zodbot> abompard: abompard 'Aurelien Bompard' <aurelien@bompard.org> 13:06:38 <abompard> sorry I'm late 13:06:56 <sayan> #topic Action items from last meeting 13:07:27 <sayan> * mizmo working on search designs for outreachy project 13:09:14 <mizmo> is that the only action? i dont have anything to report 13:09:24 <mizmo> shaily are you working on search right now? 13:09:43 <shaily> nope, i was working on adding messages to pagure 13:10:04 <shaily> the PR at pagure has been merged, i've to add support for those messages at fedmsg 13:10:05 <fm-hubs> pagure.issue.comment.edited -- ryanlerch edited a comment on ticket fedora-hubs#469: "Subscriptions / Joining a Hub / Starring a Hub" https://pagure.io 13:10:08 <sayan> mizmo: yes, that's the only action items 13:10:13 <shaily> and then use them in hubs 13:10:36 <mizmo> ok cool 13:10:45 <mizmo> shaily: so you're not blocking on search designs right? 13:11:05 <shaily> nope, i'll share my timeline with you. gimme a minute 13:12:00 <shaily> duffy at redhat, right? 13:12:37 <fm-hubs> pagure.issue.comment.added -- duffy commented on ticket fedora-hubs#469: "Subscriptions / Joining a Hub / Starring a Hub" https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/469#comment-481688 13:13:03 <mizmo> shaily: yep! 13:13:06 <mizmo> shaily: that would be super helpful, thanks! 13:13:35 <sayan> Moving onto the tickets then 13:13:39 <sayan> #topic Hub Bio & Rules / Contact always at top of the page https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/462 13:14:12 <sayan> mizmo: what's your input on this ticket? 13:14:43 <mizmo> sayan: i agree with ryan's suggestion as that was the original intention. the only thing im thinking about here when it's mandatory is to allow the user to shade these boxes to make more room to see widgets below 13:15:28 <mizmo> the gfx on the ticket are misisng the white bg though so i wouldn' tfollow the mockups from a vis design pov 13:16:03 <mizmo> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/162 13:16:19 <ryanlerch> mizmo: whoops, sorry that was my bad 13:16:41 <mizmo> theres a sep one for groups 13:16:51 <mizmo> but im stlil looking for each 13:16:57 <mizmo> looking for it. each widget has a ticket 13:17:09 <mizmo> we were using some of the tickets as design specs 13:17:32 <ryanlerch> abompard: doing this would mean making the contact, rules, and bio not "widgets" as such, right? 13:17:48 <abompard> ryanlerch: correct 13:17:48 <mizmo> uhh... it looks like my pagure issue tags for specs are gone :( 13:18:45 <abompard> oh noes 13:20:29 <mizmo> here it is: https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/8 13:20:40 <mizmo> there used to be a ux-spec or ui-spec tag that made these easier to find hehe 13:21:33 <ryanlerch> abompard: one thing to consider here too especially with the contact box -- if we make it not a widget, you loose the ability for the widget visibility stuff (preview), etc 13:21:59 <mizmo> what if instead of making it not a widget make a different class of widget or subclass or whatever 13:22:59 <ryanlerch> mizmo: like making them fixed widgets that you can't re-arrange? 13:23:13 <mizmo> ryanlerch: yeh 13:23:20 <mizmo> i mean it's the same thing on the front end 13:23:43 <mizmo> but you shouldnt have to literally unwidget them if that makes sense? 13:24:22 <abompard> ryanlerch: well contact & rules is probably not something you want to hide on preview hubs, or do you? 13:24:41 <ryanlerch> abompard: maybe contact 13:24:53 <mizmo> no it should be visible in preview 13:25:02 <mizmo> the point of preview is to see what itll look like right 13:25:21 <fm-hubs> pagure.issue.comment.added -- duffy commented on ticket fedora-hubs#462: "Hub Bio & Rules / Contact always at top of the page " https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/462#comment-481692 13:25:36 <abompard> I don't know exactly ;-) My understanding is that preview hubs want to make some widgets public and some private 13:25:38 <ryanlerch> preview is one of the visibility modes that you can set a hub to 13:25:48 <ryanlerch> one of three 13:26:02 <mizmo> oh preview isnt what you see when you hit edit? 13:26:03 <mizmo> ohhh 13:26:10 <mizmo> you mean when you can only see a subset because you're not a member 13:26:11 <mizmo> got it 13:26:14 <abompard> yeah 13:26:43 <mizmo> so for a user's info widget thingy - i dont see hiding any of it, if it's available in FAS they made it public 13:26:45 <ryanlerch> yeah, that stuff is available on user hubs, but not really sure how that works since you cant be a member of a user hub 13:27:00 <mizmo> for instance if the user made their location in FAS private, then, it won't show up even if you are their friend 13:27:45 <abompard> mizmo: oh, I'm not sure I'm checking that. 13:27:45 <mizmo> fora group hub, i dont think theres any reason to hide that stuff either 13:28:04 <ryanlerch> okies -- done! :) 13:28:08 <ryanlerch> agreed! 13:28:26 <mizmo> ryanlerch: there was a rule written out for how a user hub is private or visible to a given user, let me see if i can find it 13:28:39 <fm-hubs> pagure.issue.new -- abompard opened a new ticket fedora-hubs#472: "Contact widget: check that the location isn't displayed if it is set to private in FAS" https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/472 13:28:44 <fm-hubs> pagure.issue.edit -- abompard edited the priority fields of ticket fedora-hubs#472 https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/472 13:29:31 <ryanlerch> according to the descriptiopn in the config dialog, preview means you can select certain widgets that are only visible to logged in users 13:29:44 <ryanlerch> that that does make sense for user hubs i suppose 13:29:49 <abompard> ah, right, it's visible to logged-in users, not members 13:29:58 <mizmo> ohhh ok 13:30:03 <mizmo> thats a whole other facet 13:30:05 <ryanlerch> sorry, i was mistaken there 13:30:27 <mizmo> yeh some widgets make little sense if you're not logged in because we need a fas id to provide data for them 13:30:51 <abompard> mizmo: actually it's not the visitor's FAS ID that's used to display that info 13:31:00 <abompard> it's a "system account" 13:31:27 <abompard> so it was more of a privacy setting 13:31:44 <abompard> if I understand correctly 13:31:50 <mizmo> ah ok 13:32:04 <mizmo> i will say, the initial design for hubs was that if you weren't logged in you couldn't see anything 13:32:14 <mizmo> so i dont think there has been a lot of thinking about the not logged in case 13:32:38 <ryanlerch> mizmo: interesting 13:32:56 <ryanlerch> was it changed for a reason? 13:32:57 <mizmo> (from my end anyway :) ) 13:33:06 <mizmo> the thinking being - you can't query FAS without being logged in 13:33:34 <shaily> that only holds for a user's own hub, right 13:34:14 <mizmo> ryanlerch no i think it just ended up getting implemented allowing for logged out viewing, i dont remember if it was an explicit decision or not, likely bc to start there was no log in system 13:34:25 <mizmo> shaily: what in particular? 13:34:59 <ryanlerch> mizmo: fair enough 13:35:02 <shaily> fetching data that is dependent on the viewer's FAS credentials 13:35:06 <abompard> mizmo: if it's the only technical reason then this reason isn't valid. 13:35:07 <abompard> because querying FAS is done on the backend 13:35:07 <abompard> and cached 13:35:30 <ryanlerch> is the hub visibility stuff something we want to get right / included in MVP? 13:35:40 <mizmo> shaily: im not suer that is the case - e.g. the group hub version of the badges widget lists the FAS user's rank respective to other team members 13:35:59 <mizmo> ryanlerch: as long as we're not committing any grave privacy ills i dont see it being particularly critical to MVP 13:36:48 <mizmo> abompard: no no the idea that it shouldn't be visible logged out wasn't because of technical issues - it was more the privacy thought, if you cant see FAS data not logged in, why are we making that public 13:37:13 <abompard> mizmo: yeah that's what I remember too 13:37:55 <mizmo> i mean we could (eventually) follow the twitter model where you go to the front page and you get a sign up prompt 13:38:01 <mizmo> but if someone gives you a direct link you can see it 13:38:06 <mizmo> a direct deep link 13:38:09 <mizmo> but maybe thats stupid 13:38:19 <shaily> mizmo: so a user can't see any FAS data (anyone's) without logging into FAS? 13:38:48 <mizmo> shaily: yep you cant see anything wo login see https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ 13:39:02 <mizmo> i mean if we want to dive into logged in vs logged out viewing 13:39:33 <mizmo> logged in only viewing of data means more privacy, means anyone viewing the data has agreed to whatever legalese / codes of conduct / etc you must agree to when signing up, means they are human or run by a human, etc 13:40:02 <shaily> thanks, okay. so there are three modes - logged out, logged in, member. right? 13:40:05 <mizmo> however a con is that one of the 2 key goals of hubs is to help onboard new contributors. so it requires account creation as a barrier to entry to be able to 'shop around' the teams by viewing the team hubs and seeing what they are working on 13:40:41 <mizmo> creating a FAS account - how difficult is that to do? i dont know 13:40:55 <mizmo> i think it's been a significant barrier for certain types of potential contributors 13:41:07 <mleonova> pretty easy, if you ask me 13:41:10 <mizmo> vs logged out viewing 13:41:40 <mizmo> makes it easier to 'shop around' teams if you don't know what team you want to join or if it's even worth creating a FAS account 13:41:56 <mizmo> and, it makes private a lot of data that, ok it's public in other places, but aggregations of data particularly user activity across platforms in a really easy to use manner is kind of scary 13:42:09 <mleonova> true :) 13:42:16 <mizmo> shaily: member / not member is a different modality. 13:42:22 <mizmo> shaily: i could draw a tree. sec :) 13:43:48 <shaily> FAS account creation seems pretty straightforward to me, with the possible exception of that one math equation it asks you to solve for verification :P 13:44:03 <shaily> it needs your name, email and a security question 13:44:03 <ryanlerch> so currently you can view user hubs and group hubs without being logged in 13:45:20 <ryanlerch> https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org/ryanlerch/ 13:48:31 <mizmo> https://i.imgur.com/Eum6qKp.png 13:48:54 <mizmo> shaily: we've had a lot of confusion and hand wringing over the captchas which can be excessively hard 13:49:48 <ryanlerch> mizmo: mutual subscribers? 13:50:26 <mizmo> ryanlerch: yeh so - not saying this model makes sense but - we've talked about in the past, if you request to subscribe to a user hub, the user has to also subscribe to you so you're 'friends' and see each other's stuff 13:50:44 <ryanlerch> also, in my testing, subscribing doenst actually do anything (yet) 13:50:46 <mizmo> alternatively could just be an approval process so you could have one way follows 13:50:52 <ryanlerch> my stream is always empty 13:51:03 <mizmo> my stream is always empty too, im not sure how to make it work 13:51:12 <mizmo> that seems like probably the most critical issue for MVP 13:51:15 <sayan> ryanlerch: yes, that is still in work 13:51:32 <sayan> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/158 13:52:32 <shaily> is it like a filtered version of the Live Feed widget on the user hub? 13:53:09 <ryanlerch> currently too though, anyone can view all my fedmsgs on my feed widget too, right? 13:53:29 <sayan> ryanlerch: right! 13:54:18 <fm-hubs> pagure.issue.edit -- sayanchowdhury edited the close_status and status fields of ticket fedora-hubs#443 https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/443 13:54:18 <ryanlerch> just wondering how that fits in with the mutal subscriber idea 13:54:51 <fm-hubs> pagure.issue.edit -- sayanchowdhury edited the close_status and status fields of ticket fedora-hubs#442 https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/442 13:55:53 <fm-hubs> pagure.issue.comment.added -- sayanchowdhury commented on ticket fedora-hubs#436: "Hubs widget: implement as in the mockup" https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/436#comment-481705 13:56:26 <mizmo> ryanlerch: so 'my feedwidget' for ryanlerch != user profile for ryanlerch, so i dont think any other user should be able to see your feedwidget 13:56:29 <fm-hubs> pagure.issue.comment.added -- ryanlerch commented on ticket fedora-hubs#436: "Hubs widget: implement as in the mockup" https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/436#comment-481706 13:56:42 <fm-hubs> pagure.issue.edit -- ryanlerch edited the close_status and status fields of ticket fedora-hubs#436 https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/436 13:57:32 <mizmo> this is the comparison between the two https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/84 13:59:30 * sayan needs to run into another meeting 13:59:37 <sayan> And we are at time 13:59:57 <sayan> Should we end the meeting and continue the discussion, or do you want to continue and one possibly closing the meeting? 14:00:42 <sayan> mizmo: my feedwidget is the stream are you talking of? 14:00:57 <mizmo> sayan: yeh same thing 14:01:08 <sayan> mizmo: ok 14:01:33 <ryanlerch> mizmo: those mocks do have a stream widget on the profile view thought right? 14:01:51 <mizmo> ryanlerch: which one 14:01:55 <mizmo> which mockup 14:02:04 <ryanlerch> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/84 14:02:08 <sayan> ryanlerch: mizmo: would you close the meeting, I need to run off to another meeting 14:02:10 <sayan> ? 14:02:23 <mizmo> sayan: sure 14:02:23 <ryanlerch> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/raw/6beed7d9cf562725001abc14d5b341c8e689c295eaf81e23daa747003f53cfd0-profile-vs-stream_profile-someoneelse.png 14:02:27 <sayan> mizmo: thanks 14:02:48 <mizmo> ryanlerch: that mock is the user's profile. it does have a feed widget, yeh 14:02:56 <mizmo> theres a 'public' version of that mockup too 14:03:25 <mizmo> it basically only shows 5 items in the feedwidget and has a card at the bottom that says 'subcsribe to see more of $user's recent activity' [subscribe] 14:04:10 <shaily> mizmo: oh, so subscribing vs not subscribing only differentiates between the number of items you see on a user's feed? 14:04:21 <mizmo> shaily: no 14:04:41 <shaily> okay, five items respecting certain privacy constraints 14:04:42 <shaily> i guess 14:05:04 <mizmo> shaily: you have to subscribe to a user to see both their full feed widget on *their* page, and on your *my streams* page 14:05:18 <mizmo> shaily: but you can't see more than 5 items on their page and you cant follow them in your my streams page unless they have approved your subscription req 14:06:02 <shaily> mizmo: thanks, one last thing. say i subscribe to your hub, but you don't subscribe to mine 14:06:03 <mizmo> shaily: yeh five items so you cant see their fully history or whatnot 14:06:16 <shaily> mizmo: what does that change for me 14:06:21 <ryanlerch> okies, this is all stuff we have to get implemented for MVP 14:06:39 <ryanlerch> none of these concepts exist in the code yet afaik 14:06:46 <mizmo> shaily: thats an open question. either we have a subscription approval process so i can approve your sub request and i dont necessarily subscribe to you, or we promote mutual subscriptoin by requiring it to see someone else's stuff 14:06:58 <ryanlerch> currently you can just subscribe to anyone's hub 14:07:29 <ryanlerch> and there is no approving their request or anything 14:07:39 <mizmo> ryanlerch: the effect of subscribing to someone's hub i guess is iminimal right now though, because the feed widget doesn't work 14:07:42 <mizmo> so you cant get a feel for what it even means 14:08:01 <ryanlerch> mizmo: the feed widget works for me 14:08:11 <mizmo> i mean we could tweak the idea if you could get the feel, do you know what i mean 14:08:12 <mizmo> it's kind of hard to make the call without real data from my pov 14:08:13 <ryanlerch> the my streams page is the one that doesnt work 14:08:34 <mizmo> ryanlerch: oh? 14:08:40 <mizmo> does it work on the dev instance 14:08:54 <ryanlerch> https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org/ryanlerch/ 14:09:30 <mizmo> egon design team i see "Dummy Lorem ipsum dolor" for feed widget 14:09:39 <mizmo> ahh ok 14:09:45 <mizmo> i wasn't following users so i didnt see that 14:10:21 <ryanlerch> https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org/designteam/ 14:10:29 <ryanlerch> just added the feed widget there 14:10:35 <mizmo> ryanlerch: this requires log in to see though right? 14:10:42 <mizmo> ryanlerch: if you go to that URL ipsilon comes up 14:11:22 <ryanlerch> mizmo: nope -- it works not loggin 14:11:25 <ryanlerch> https://hubs-dev.fedorainfracloud.org/designteam/ 14:11:42 <ryanlerch> good luck logging out ;) 14:11:54 * ryanlerch uses a private tab to test logged out stuff 14:12:16 <mizmo> that feels really invasive 14:12:25 <mizmo> that you can see all of that not logged in 14:13:26 <mizmo> i wonder how involved it would be to just require login for everything? 14:13:31 <mizmo> i feel like that would be good enough for MVP 14:14:08 <abompard> mizmo: we could do that 14:14:34 <mizmo> abompard: is it very involved to do? 14:14:50 <ryanlerch> mizmo: not really i dont think 14:14:54 <abompard> mizmo: not sure yet but I think not 14:15:11 <ryanlerch> we should make the all groups page public though 14:15:29 <ryanlerch> and maybe create a landing page at the front too 14:16:29 <ryanlerch> mizmo: tomorrow i'll try to write up a bug to encapsulate what needs to be done on the side of subscription approvals / mutual subscription 14:16:53 <ryanlerch> is that something that we want to still persue even if the whole site requires a FAS account? 14:18:31 <mizmo> ryanlerch: yeh i think we still want to do subscription approvals /mutual subscription for user hubs, but if those user hubs are behind FAS login, we won't need it for MVP though. 14:19:04 <ryanlerch> mizmo: ack! 14:20:32 <ryanlerch> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/457 14:20:43 <ryanlerch> is also related to this on the group hub side 14:23:58 <mizmo> abompard: on ticket #457 - does fas 2 not have an api to trigger a membership request in FAS from hubs? 14:24:26 <abompard> mizmo: I don't know about that 14:24:29 <abompard> I'll have to ask 14:25:12 <mizmo> abompard: welli dont want to complicate things - 14:25:19 <mizmo> abompard: is there any link at all between hubs and fas groups right now? 14:25:43 <abompard> mizmo: only a script that imports fas groups and users and creates hubs 14:25:44 <mizmo> eg if you knew the name of the corresponding fas group, you could do exactly as you propose in the initial ticket text - 14:26:00 <mizmo> but give them a link to the admin panel in fas to add the requestor 14:26:18 <mizmo> abompard: can we create a variable on our side to store fas group name and sync it during the script? 14:26:46 <mizmo> in other words, if we knew the corresponding fas group name, and we know who is admin 14:26:55 <abompard> mizmo: sync it? you mean import users & members etc? 14:27:15 <abompard> we could, I guess, have a periodically running script that would do this sync 14:27:37 <mizmo> abompard: no i dont mean sync in that sense, i just mean, when the script is run and imports the fas groups, can it store the fas group name (if it doesn't already) 14:27:47 <mizmo> the end user workflow i'm thinking is 14:27:56 <abompard> I think it creates the hub with the same name as the fas group name 14:27:59 <mizmo> joe goes to the design-team hub and decides to put in a join request 14:28:45 <mizmo> mo, the deisgn team hub admin, gets an email / notification that FAS id 'joe' has requested to join the hub. the email has a link to http://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/whatevertheurlis so all mo has to do is click the link, put joe's name in the box, and hit add user 14:30:07 <mizmo> url would be something like https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/invite/$fasgroupname so for this example https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/invite/designteam 14:30:14 <mizmo> you'd build the url based on the fas group name 14:30:40 <mizmo> i dont know if invite is effective or if it has to be add 14:30:44 <mizmo> and once you add you have to sponsor i think 14:31:08 <abompard> yeah, doable. And then? Hubs must sync the members list from FAS I guess? 14:31:25 <mizmo> yeh it seems so :( 14:32:14 <abompard> yep. So there must be a way to disable the members edition tabs we currently have in hubs in favor of a sync from FAS 14:32:31 <mizmo> is that a show stopper? 14:34:00 <abompard> I don't know exactly what my FAS system account will be allowed to do, and I'm not very familiar with FAS' API 14:34:16 * sayan is back 14:34:46 * ryanlerch is going to have to go now though :( 14:34:48 <abompard> So I don't really know. I've build to authorization in hubs so we could switch to something remote-based such as FAS but I haven't tested it 14:34:58 <abompard> Oh yeah, good night ryanlerch 14:35:30 <mizmo> later 14:35:32 <mizmo> ill stop the meeting now i guess 14:35:33 <mizmo> #stopmeeting 14:36:16 <mizmo> hm 14:36:17 <mizmo> #endmeeting