05:06:17 <tagoh_> #startmeeting i18n
05:06:17 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jul  5 05:06:17 2012 UTC.  The chair is tagoh_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:06:17 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:06:22 <tagoh_> #meetingname i18n
05:06:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:06:27 <tagoh_> #topic agenda and roll call
05:06:38 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2012-07-05
05:06:51 <tagoh_> sorry for late start
05:07:23 <paragan> hi
05:07:26 <anish_> hi
05:07:45 <pravins> hi
05:07:58 <dueno> hi
05:08:54 <jni> hi
05:09:22 <epico> hi
05:09:58 <tagoh_> hi guys, okay, let's get started
05:10:06 <tagoh_> #topic F18
05:10:55 <tagoh_> any updates or any further proposal for i18n features on f18?
05:11:11 <anish_> for feature typing booster , http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Typing-Booster
05:11:38 <anish_> any suggestions?
05:12:13 <epico> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/ibus-pinyin-1.4.99.20120620-1.fc17,libpinyin-0.6.92-1.fc17,ibus-libpinyin-1.4.1-1.fc17
05:12:22 <anish_> i will change package name ibus-hunspell-table to ibus-typing-booster
05:12:37 <tagoh_> sure
05:13:20 <juhp> hi
05:13:54 <tagoh_> anish_: well, after quick look, you need to write the contingency plan before submitting
05:14:29 <pravins> anish_: how about ibus-european-table? that will be different feature or we have done it already?
05:14:58 <tagoh_> anish_: it could be just rolled back to current one.
05:15:07 <tagoh_> pravins: good point
05:15:17 <anish_> we are going to remove ibus-european-table
05:15:33 <anish_> and ibus-indic-table
05:16:01 <epico> ibus-libpinyin built for rawhide and f17.
05:16:12 <pravins> anish_: ask specifically for ibus-european table since this ibus-typing-booster feature lists only Indian language :)
05:16:18 <pravins> s/language/languages
05:16:20 <tagoh_> I think it may be a good idea mentioning what packages nwe i-t-b a.k.a. ibus-hunspell-table will replaces?
05:16:28 <tagoh_> s/nwe/new/
05:16:51 <tagoh_> epico: cool
05:17:01 <juhp> yes
05:17:15 <epico> tagoh_, thanks
05:17:18 <anish_> pravins, thanks i will add european languages
05:17:22 <juhp> epico, so will ibus-libpinyin for f17 also obsolete older ibus-pinyin?
05:17:42 <epico> not, ibus-pinyin will pull in ibus-libpinyin.
05:17:53 <pravins> thanks anish_, glad to see single package will serve all the languages :)
05:18:05 <anish_> tagoh_, in contingency plan i will mention it replaces ibus-european-table and ibus-indic-table package
05:18:10 <epico> juhp, maybe in future obsolete it.
05:18:14 <tagoh_> epico: but we still ship ibus-pinyin in fedora?
05:18:22 <epico> tagoh_, yes
05:18:35 <anish_> pravins, thanks
05:19:11 <juhp> epico, it will?
05:19:44 <tagoh_> anish_: I guess dependencies or description may be a good place to do it?
05:20:21 <juhp> anish_, contingency is about reverting the feature etc
05:20:30 <tagoh_> anish_: the contigency plan is what to do when we can't go with it.
05:20:34 * epico needs to figure out how to write the spec files.
05:21:09 <epico> ibus-pinyin requires ibus-libpinyin, then ibus-libpinyin obsolete ibus-pinyin.
05:21:16 <anish_> tagoh_, juhp thanks
05:21:27 * epico dunno what yum will do with the above spec changes...
05:21:42 <juhp> epico, why does ibus-pinyin requires ibus-libpinyin ?
05:21:58 <tagoh_> epico: well, if we want to keep ibus-pinyin, we have nothing to migrate in ibus-pinyin I suppose.
05:22:00 <epico> juhp, just to pull in ibus-libpinyin.
05:22:22 <tagoh_> particularly for upgrading
05:22:31 <juhp> epico, so then you should make ibus-libpinyin obsolete ibus-pinyin < <oldversion-release>
05:22:36 <tagoh_> epico: just update comps for fresh install.
05:22:50 <epico> juhp, okay
05:23:10 <juhp> assuming you please to backport rawhide ibus-pinyin to f17
05:23:18 <juhp> erm s/please/plan/
05:23:25 <pravins> anish_: "<!-- If you cannot complete your feature by the final development freeze, what is the backup plan?  This might be as simple as "None necessary, revert to previous release behaviour."  Or it might not.  If you feature is not completed in time we want to assure others that other parts of Fedora will not be in jeopardy.  -->"
05:24:10 <epico> juhp, yes
05:24:25 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: how about the feature page for ibus gnome integration?
05:25:00 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: Probably I had an AI from last meeting...
05:25:18 <tagoh_> yeah
05:26:01 <fujiwarat> Ah, probably QT_IM_MODULE and XMODIFIERS
05:26:01 <anish_> pravins, in that case we need to suggest to install  ibus-indic-table and ibus-european-table
05:26:30 <juhp> epico, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrade_paths_—_renaming_or_splitting_packages and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Guidelines#Renaming.2FReplacing_Existing_Packages
05:26:40 <epico> juhp, thanks
05:27:04 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: I informed rmatos of QT_IM_MODULE and XMODIFIERS and he will think about it.
05:27:34 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: aha
05:28:04 <fujiwarat> It seems phuang is out of office so probably I have no specific updates about ibus gnome-shell.
05:28:10 <pravins> anish_: yes, looks good to me
05:28:18 <fujiwarat> Probably I think ibus-xkb needs to be integrated in f18.
05:28:42 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: I think we agreed to have the feature page in order to keep it on track. also good idea to pay attention on QA for this feature.
05:29:04 <juhp> ibus-xkb will be for non-gnome desktops?
05:29:13 <fujiwarat> Ah, I forgot the feature page.
05:29:23 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: sure. can you open the feature page, including it then? :)
05:29:25 <fujiwarat> juhp: Right.
05:29:34 <tagoh_> if it's necessary
05:29:46 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: yes
05:29:50 <juhp> I think it would be very good to have for documentation
05:30:23 <juhp> s/for/as/
05:30:29 <fujiwarat> ok
05:30:37 <pravins> ohh, 2012-07-24  is deadline for feature submission, i should hurry for Liberation fonts
05:30:46 <tagoh_> juhp: yes. we need to mention about this change in relnotes too, particularly how to switch IM on GNOME etc
05:31:07 <juhp> yeah and documenting the whole feature work :)
05:31:19 <tagoh_> good idea, yeah
05:31:26 <tagoh_> pravins: yes please :)
05:31:30 <juhp> from fedora pov at least
05:32:17 * tagoh_ added some feature plans to the agenda
05:32:31 <tagoh_> okay, anything more on f18?
05:32:37 <pravins> tagoh_: yes sure :) update is i have now created branch in upstream git for existing state of liberation-fonts, so anyone wants to switch back previous version can use it.
05:32:46 <juhp> epico, also if IME name changes maybe need to consider migration under ibus UI etc?
05:32:55 <tagoh_> pravins: aha. nice
05:33:18 <juhp> (if necessary)
05:33:36 <epico> ?
05:33:42 <tagoh_> juhp: is it just ignored if the engine isn't available?
05:33:54 <juhp> tagoh_, well yes that's what I mean
05:34:04 <juhp> but maybe hard to do
05:34:54 <tagoh_> I guess ibus behaves so
05:35:00 <juhp> well if we plan to move f17 users from ibus-pinyin to ibus-libpinyin thought it would be better to handle it if possible
05:35:37 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: any comments for above?
05:36:37 <juhp> epico, ie what happens after user upgrades from ibus-pinyin to ibus-libpinyin?
05:36:52 <juhp> they have to reconfig pinyin IME in ibus?
05:37:42 <fujiwarat> Currently ibus handles IBusEngineDesc.rank for the default engines but not sure if g-c-c will follow it.
05:37:58 <tagoh_> juhp: ah, including IME-specific configuration too? dunno if there are any, like registered words etc maybe?
05:38:54 <epico> juhp, both ibus-pinyin and ibus-libpinyin share config.
05:39:19 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: ah, hmm, need to think about possibly new feature in GNOME3 too...
05:40:24 <tagoh_> epico: so when something changed in either of them, it also affects to both?
05:40:32 <epico> tagoh_, yes
05:40:36 <juhp> I don't mean config
05:41:23 <juhp> so after ibus-libpinyin replaces user's ibus-pinyin - will ibus-libpinyin still be enabled as one of user's IMEs ?
05:41:44 <epico> juhp, it depends ibus-setup.
05:41:59 <tagoh_> epico: but what if ibus-pinyin breaks something in config in the future? which is incompatible with what ibus-libpinyin expects?
05:42:00 <juhp> well yes or no? :)
05:42:04 <juhp> anyway
05:42:30 <epico> juhp, if the user didn't customize it, it will show up.
05:42:43 <juhp> okay
05:42:49 <juhp> cool
05:42:56 <tagoh_> juhp: I guess it may be yes in current implementation. but not sure in new implementation on gnome3
05:43:04 <juhp> right
05:43:09 <juhp> ok
05:43:23 <tagoh_> I read it from what fujiwarat said
05:43:29 <epico> tagoh_, they only share some key/value in dconf.
05:43:41 <epico> other data is separated.
05:44:15 <tagoh_> epico: sure. just feels it may be a bit risky. dunno
05:44:33 <tagoh_> anyway
05:45:16 <tagoh_> okay, better move on.
05:45:23 <tagoh_> #topic Bugzilla cleanup
05:45:49 <tagoh_> thanks everyone who were helped for f14/5 bugs triage
05:46:25 <tagoh_> we still have 29 bugs open in f15 and still need some loves to see them.
05:47:18 <tagoh_> anish_: and you have all 3 bugs in f14 now. so please spending a few time to triage them would be nice :)
05:48:07 <anish_> sure i will do that
05:48:16 <tagoh_> anish_: thanks!
05:48:23 <tagoh_> #topic Input Methods
05:48:23 <anish_> i was waiting for response from bug reporter
05:48:27 <anish_> tagoh_, thanks
05:48:32 <tagoh_> anish_: okay
05:48:43 <tagoh_> any updates to share for IM?
05:50:35 <tagoh_> nope? :)
05:50:48 <fujiwarat> fedbot: whoowns ibus-table
05:51:19 <fujiwarat> zodbot:  whoowns ibus-table
05:51:20 <zodbot> fujiwarat: jamesni
05:52:08 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: do you have anything? :)
05:52:31 <fujiwarat> Currently ibus-table does not support ibus 1.5 fully and damage3025 asks me how to support it.
05:53:01 <tagoh_> any details for "not support ibus 1.5 fully" ?
05:53:02 <fujiwarat> in upstream.
05:54:23 <fujiwarat> ibus 1.4 engines could use pygtk2 based codes but ibus 1.5 won't support pygtk2 based and we asks to migrated it to gir(pygobject3).
05:54:34 <juhp> aha
05:54:38 <tagoh_> aha
05:54:53 <juhp> fujiwarat, could you file a bug in fedora about it please?
05:55:04 * fujiwarat finding the bug id.
05:55:07 <juhp> ah
05:55:20 <jni> fujiwarat, so you mean update ibus-table to gir?
05:55:28 <fujiwarat> fedbot: bug 513901
05:55:30 <fedbot> fujiwarat: Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=513901 medium, low, ---, jni, ASSIGNED , ibus-table setup does not store config settings
05:55:46 <fujiwarat> This would be the visible bug.
05:55:50 <juhp> fujiwarat, I thought that was an RFE?
05:56:24 <juhp> so config requires gir ?
05:56:25 <fujiwarat> juhp: But there is no ibus-table menu items in ibus menu :).
05:56:48 <juhp> hmm
05:57:01 <tagoh_> it could be side-effects perhaps, maybe better file a new one?
05:57:24 <juhp> fujiwarat, I thought it would be good to have a bug to track migrating ibus-table from pygtk2 to gir(pygobject3) ?
05:57:30 <juhp> right
05:57:37 <epico> from gi.repository import IBus as ibus?
05:58:43 <fujiwarat> The bug 513901 is the one of the bugs whose root causes are no ibus 1.5  base.
05:59:15 <juhp> oh
05:59:45 <juhp> you're saying it is blocking ibus-1.5 release?
05:59:58 <tagoh_> hmm, but it was filed before 1.5 is coming...
06:00:08 <juhp> indeed it is an old bug
06:00:18 <juhp> about adding ibus-table-setup
06:00:34 <juhp> so seems quite unrelated in that sense
06:01:39 <tagoh_> ibus-table doesn't have -setup yet right?
06:02:24 <juhp> that is the above bug :)
06:02:27 <anish_> tagoh_, looks so http://code.google.com/p/ibus/issues/detail?id=639
06:02:40 <juhp> perhaps
06:02:44 <tagoh_> so better dealing with it as separate bug then.
06:02:47 <juhp> yes
06:02:56 <juhp> I will file a bug then ;)
06:03:03 <tagoh_> sure
06:03:18 <tagoh_> anything more?
06:03:32 <tagoh_> juhp: thanks
06:04:01 <tagoh_> okay, move on
06:04:03 <tagoh_> #topic Fonts and Rendering
06:04:07 <tagoh_> any updates to share?
06:04:29 <pravins> tagoh_: just commented on bug filed by you
06:04:35 <pravins> .bug 837533
06:04:37 <zodbot> pravins: Bug 837533 Malformed fontconfig config file - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=837533
06:04:38 <tagoh_> aha
06:04:54 <fujiwarat> I mean migrating pygobjedt3 is much better than investigating ibus pygtk2 codes for ibus-table.
06:05:25 <tagoh_> pravins: yes, I think it works
06:05:53 <pravins> tagoh_: thanks, i will update culmus-fonts then
06:06:14 <juhp> fujiwarat, ok
06:07:36 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: the above bug is an RFE as juhp said, no investigation happens :)
06:07:57 <juhp> though jni might be starting to look at it
06:08:12 <fujiwarat> ok, I see.
06:08:24 <tagoh_> anything more on fonts and rendering?
06:10:06 <jni> juhp, yes, currently just look at the 834971, i found that upstream have modes that combine simplify chinese and traditional chinese
06:10:11 <tagoh_> wonder if we'll see harfbuzz in gnome 3.6 though it's proposed in upstream.
06:10:24 <juhp> fujiwarat, so is it better to note about gir in the above bug if no action needed yet for current code base?
06:10:29 <juhp> jni, I see thanks
06:11:15 <jni> juhp, np
06:11:42 <pravins> tagoh_: New Krishna Tamil based on Lohit Tamil is released by Shriramana shrama
06:11:54 <pravins> detail announcement is available at http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=29478357
06:11:58 <tagoh_> pravins: aha
06:12:04 <juhp> pravins, a new fork?
06:12:30 <pravins> juhp: i think it is different design
06:12:55 <juhp> ok
06:13:11 <juhp> nice
06:14:02 <pravins> juhp: it is a purely Graphite-based Tamil font
06:14:11 <pravins> design is same
06:14:14 <juhp> handwriting?
06:14:33 * juhp is a bit unclear on what graphite means here
06:15:01 <tagoh_> assuming that it's rendering system?
06:15:05 <juhp> ah
06:15:08 <juhp> nod
06:15:13 <pravins> tagoh_:  yes exactly, we have not done much work on Graphite
06:15:34 <pravins> checking at Krishna font, it does not have Open type tables
06:15:42 <tagoh_> aha
06:15:53 <tagoh_> interesting
06:16:51 <tagoh_> okay, better move on then I guess
06:16:57 <juhp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_(SIL)
06:16:58 <tagoh_> #topic Open Floor
06:17:09 <tagoh_> anything more we are missing in the agenda?
06:17:29 <pravins> release tarball has krishna-tabil.gdl, it  has some rules. anyway good to see Lohit on Graphite site as well :)
06:19:30 <tagoh_> pravins: no sure if Graphite-based fonts is a subset or superset of OpenType fonts.. if later one, there may be something better in that font than Lohit on Graphite-based apps?
06:20:31 <tagoh_> guess there may be advantage and disadvantage in both
06:20:41 <tagoh_> but anyway
06:21:01 <tagoh_> if no more topic to discuss, let's close the meeting shortly
06:21:12 <pravins> tagoh_: agree, need to check
06:22:04 <tagoh_> okay, thanks everyone for the meeting!
06:22:08 <tagoh_> #endmeeting