05:30:02 <paragan> #startmeeting i18n
05:30:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jan 29 05:30:02 2019 UTC.
05:30:02 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
05:30:02 <zodbot> The chair is paragan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:30:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:30:02 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:30:03 <paragan> #meetingname i18n
05:30:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
05:30:03 <paragan> #topic agenda and roll call
05:30:03 <paragan> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2019-01-29
05:30:11 <tagoh> hi
05:30:13 <vishal_vr> hi
05:30:15 <mfabian> Hi ☺
05:30:25 <juhp> hi
05:30:41 <pravins> hi
05:31:01 <pwu> hi
05:31:27 <paragan> #chair tagoh vishal_vr mfabian juhp pravins pwu
05:31:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: juhp mfabian paragan pravins pwu tagoh vishal_vr
05:31:30 <paragan> Hi all
05:31:53 <paragan> Let's start with today's agenda items
05:32:04 <paragan> #topic Upcoming schedule
05:33:48 <paragan> So we are in development milestones
05:34:05 <paragan> today is last day of Self-Contained Change submission
05:34:37 <paragan> if anyone still waiting to submit any Change proposal then do so now :)
05:35:30 <paragan> the upcoming release milestones are
05:35:31 <paragan> #info 2019-01-29 	Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (Self Contained Changes)
05:35:31 <paragan> #info 2019-01-30 	Mass Rebuild
05:35:31 <paragan> #info 2019-02-05 	Software String Freeze
05:35:32 <paragan> #info 2019-02-19 	Change Checkpoint: Completion deadline (testable)
05:35:32 <paragan> #info 2019-02-19    Branch Fedora 30 from Rawhide (Rawhide becomes future F31)
05:38:05 <paragan> Let's move to tickets
05:38:46 <paragan> #topic Outstanding issue
05:38:46 <paragan> #info #97: Replace comps language support groups with weak dependencies (petersen)
05:38:46 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/97
05:39:32 <paragan> This Change implementation is getting tested in copr repo
05:40:06 <paragan> #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Replace_Comps_Language_Group_With_Langpacks
05:40:35 <juhp> I haven't had a chance to try it out yet...
05:40:40 <paragan> I see yesterday that FESCo has approved this Change now. Thanks to them for reviewing this Change.
05:40:58 <juhp> Cool
05:40:59 <tagoh> cool
05:41:12 <juhp> How's it looking so far?
05:41:14 <paragan> I will wait for tracker bug to be created
05:41:26 <paragan> looks working fine
05:41:44 <juhp> Okay, good
05:42:16 <juhp> I have been pleasantly surprised how much interest it has gotten so far anyway, so it seems positive thing to me
05:43:06 <juhp> Reminds me Rafal mentioned at devconf that glibc translations should also be in its langpacks
05:44:07 <pravins> its indeed going to be key change.
05:44:20 <pravins> i also saw some discussion around it in Debian list.
05:45:23 <juhp> oh?
05:45:35 <pravins> like, do they have week dependencies in apt.
05:45:42 <juhp> aha interesting
05:45:50 <pravins> i think, they dont.
05:46:13 <juhp> I think they have Weak but maybe not so rich, dunno?
05:46:44 <pravins> right, that was the discussion, not finding that thread now.
05:46:50 <juhp> cool thanks
05:47:45 <juhp> (glibc tools translation specificially - I think he said a bug was opened)
05:47:58 <paragan> hm can't find Supplements in https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_package_dependencies
05:49:24 <paragan> and they have a way to block "Recommends" packages! https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_blocking_packages_installed_by_recommends
05:50:18 <juhp> Yeah seems no strong version of Enhances
05:50:26 <tagoh> Suggests should works as weak deps
05:51:00 <juhp> Debian's definition of weak seems weaker than Fedora
05:52:21 <juhp> I mean Fedora's weak is Debian's strong...
05:52:36 <juhp> Fedora hint is Debian weak iiuc
05:52:53 <paragan> as part of this discussion, I just had a look at our packages repository and found there are maximum uses rpm tag is Suggests then Recommends then Supplements then Enhances
05:54:25 * juhp still has trouble remember the names of the weak vs hint tags
05:55:17 <juhp> paragan: any explanation for that?
05:55:49 <juhp> Just curious since the hints are mostly generally useless
05:55:56 <paragan> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:WeakDependencies#Hints
05:56:17 <juhp> paragan: erm I mean why there is more uage of Suggests...??
05:56:40 <juhp> s/mostly/most/  oops
05:56:43 <paragan> they are maximum used by R packages
05:56:50 <juhp> aha okay
05:57:19 <juhp> Hints are only useful when there is ambiguity
05:57:29 <paragan> I think its upto individual packaging what they want to use
05:57:42 <juhp> Fonts *cough* lang tags ;-)
05:58:37 <juhp> Yeah just saying if there is no ambiguity in deps then hints are mostly meaningless, like optional comps
05:59:41 * juhp forgets if there is a dnf optional to force hints
05:59:42 <mfabian> juhp: $ rpm  -qf /usr/share/locale/ja/LC_MESSAGES/libc.mo
05:59:42 <mfabian> glibc-langpack-ja-2.28-26.fc29.x86_64
05:59:42 <mfabian> 
06:00:02 <paragan> yeah translations are already part of existing glibc langpack
06:00:09 <mfabian> juhp: Maybe what Rafal said is fixed already?
06:00:10 <juhp> mfabian: Yeah I was trying to find example
06:00:18 <juhp> mfabian: I don't think so
06:01:29 <paragan> I think let's move to next ticket
06:02:03 <juhp> mfabian: well I am sure... I don't see the bug either, hmm
06:02:11 <juhp> erm Not sure
06:02:52 <juhp> mfabian: localedef uses libc.mo?
06:04:57 <mfabian> juhp: Yes, it looks like it does.
06:05:09 <juhp> Okay then I am confused too
06:05:38 <mfabian> juhp: I found messages from the locale/programs/localedef.c source in /usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/libc.mo
06:07:12 <juhp> cool
06:07:50 <juhp> paragan: sure no need to wait more
06:08:48 <paragan> okay
06:09:00 <paragan> #topic No assignee issues
06:09:00 <paragan> #info #104: Tracker for Fedora 30 Changes (pnemade)
06:09:00 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/104
06:09:23 <paragan> I think in total we got 2 Change proposals
06:09:38 <paragan> one System Wide and one Self Contained Change
06:10:13 <paragan> the i-t-b Change proposal also got some queries on ticket and mailing list
06:11:35 <paragan> if there is nothing to discuss here then we can move to next ticket
06:12:13 <mfabian> I didn’t check the queries yet.
06:12:40 <juhp> We can ask Rafal again
06:13:01 <paragan> #info #105: Fedora 28 Bug triaging (pnemade)
06:13:01 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/105
06:16:22 <paragan> we need to keep triaging bugs...
06:17:24 <paragan> keep working on
06:18:48 <paragan> #info #106: Fedora 30 i18n test day  (pnemade)
06:18:48 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/106
06:19:44 <juhp> Good first step to triage our own bugs there first if not already done
06:19:54 <juhp> (f28 bugs)
06:20:30 <paragan> I think as we have the final count of Change for F30, I can go ahead and create the test day pages
06:21:39 <paragan> #info F30 i18n test day on 19th March 2019
06:22:10 <paragan> anyone needs any discussion here?
06:22:20 <paragan> if not move to next topic :)
06:22:38 <juhp> Any test (process) changes planned this time?
06:22:59 <juhp> eg enhances or feedback from past
06:23:04 <juhp> enhancements
06:23:07 <juhp> ?
06:24:06 <paragan> we will try to take help of QE to review our test cases again
06:24:13 <juhp> Maybe I thinking specifically about testcases and their care and maintenence etc
06:24:16 <paragan> will see if any test case needs update
06:24:17 <juhp> okay
06:26:10 <paragan> #topic Open Floor
06:27:13 <juhp> How can we do more Fedora CI for our packages?
06:28:53 <juhp> It might be good to have a ticket to track that?
06:29:07 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CI
06:29:09 <paragan> Okay let's have a ticket for that
06:29:21 <juhp> okay
06:29:47 <juhp> Are any of our packages using Fedora CI currently?
06:29:49 <paragan> we will then discuss on it like identifying which packages are frequently updated and take them
06:29:55 <juhp> sounds good
06:29:59 <paragan> and add some testcases
06:32:02 <paragan> let's close the meeting
06:32:09 <paragan> Thank you all who came to this meeting
06:32:27 <juhp> https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/108
06:32:42 <paragan> juhp++ thanks for above ticket
06:32:50 <juhp> sure
06:33:35 <pravins> thanks paragan
06:33:45 <paragan> #endmeeting