20:59:53 <smooge> #startmeeting infrastructure2 20:59:53 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Feb 17 20:59:53 2011 UTC. The chair is smooge. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:59:53 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 21:00:23 <zodbot> CodeBlock: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. 21:00:25 <CodeBlock> meh 21:00:26 <CodeBlock> ok 21:00:31 <CodeBlock> well then 21:00:32 <smooge> #meetingname infrastructure 21:00:32 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure' 21:01:10 <abadger1999> Probably better to either use #fedora-admin or #fedora-meeting-X for future meetings, though. 21:01:12 <CodeBlock> ok so 21:01:21 * skvidal doesn't care 21:01:23 <ricky> anyway, what did averi want to discuss - wordpress? 21:01:30 <ricky> And killing it? :-) 21:01:32 <skvidal> ricky: mailing lists, I think 21:01:35 <ricky> Ah, that too. 21:01:41 <smooge> #chair skvidal jds2001 21:01:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: jds2001 skvidal smooge 21:01:41 <averi> both blog's future and mailing lists 21:01:52 <smooge> #topic Blogs 21:02:14 <averi> I think we have two possibilities at the moment for blogs: 21:02:45 <averi> 1. update them to something newer avoiding security issues with wordpress-mu being so old 21:02:55 <averi> 2. remove everything and say goodbye to blogs.fp.o 21:03:03 <ricky> I thought we already all agreed on 2 :-/ 21:03:21 <smooge> 3. get blogs on wordpress and have blogs.fp.o redirect to those 21:03:22 <sijis> i thought so too 21:03:33 <ricky> Or more specifically, 3 21:03:44 <averi> smooge, exactly, forgot that point 21:04:00 <smooge> I believe we agreed to pursue 3. 21:04:01 <smooge> however 21:04:13 <smooge> as I have learned this week, communication is important 21:04:22 <smooge> so until it is communicated, it isn't happening 21:04:53 * ricky has been busy last week or two, but will have time to start that end of this week, hopefully. 21:04:53 <CodeBlock> What needs to take place to communicate it? 21:04:54 <smooge> we are in the research phase of it.. so what is the research point for costs and such 21:05:12 <ricky> One thing. 21:05:14 <smooge> We need to let the people on blogs know, we need to let the marketing and other groups using it know 21:05:21 <ricky> Do we think we're at the point where it's reasonable to disable new signups? 21:05:32 <smooge> we need to let the board know. 21:05:37 <ricky> I don't want to have to deal with another 20 blogs just because we tok a long time to get this done 21:05:41 <ricky> *sigh* 21:05:41 <skvidal> ricky: yes 21:05:45 <jds2001> why does the board need to know? 21:05:46 <ricky> Why must everything be a "ask the board" nowadays? 21:05:47 <ricky> Seriously. 21:05:56 <ricky> We run this, and we don't have the resources to run this. 21:06:02 <smooge> because the board has a blog on it 21:06:05 <jds2001> ricky: +1 21:06:13 <ricky> OK, then replcae "the board" with "all users" please 21:06:16 <jds2001> oh, well, they're just another user :) 21:06:16 <sijis> based on the numbers i saw a copule of weeks ago.. a couple more signups won't matter much 21:06:26 <smooge> and I am not going to have a shitfest again with the tx transition 21:06:40 <ricky> sijis: Yeah, I just don't want somebody to start relying on the service and then we kind of screw them over a week later 21:06:46 <CodeBlock> We already agreed on it happening. I say kill signups. 21:07:02 <CodeBlock> s/it happening/the move to wp.c/ 21:07:20 <sijis> i actually think we shouldn't redirect from blogs.fp.o -> wp.com. not sure what that will do 21:07:36 <sijis> so you kill signups and existing folks have time to migrate (or we do it) over 21:07:36 <ricky> I still wouldn't call that a shitfest (although the timeframe we have for transifex was particularly tight, which means stuff got rushed, yes) 21:07:36 <skvidal> huh? 21:08:39 <ricky> I think it'd be reasonable to put in blog-specific redirects for some period of time for people who request them. 21:08:40 <abadger1999> +1 to kill signups. 21:08:49 <skvidal> +1 to kill signups 21:09:01 <smooge> +1 to kill signups. 21:09:25 <jds2001> +1 to kill signups 21:09:30 <sijis> if we do redirect from blogs.fp.o.. for how long then? 21:09:32 <CodeBlock> +1 to kill signups. 21:09:51 <jds2001> sijis: thats a very low maintainence thing 21:09:52 <smooge> sijis, redirection will be dependent on how it is done 21:10:36 <jds2001> if we just do it with rewriterules (not sure that's feasible or not), then it can just stay there.... 21:10:58 <sijis> my only thing with redirects is that it doesn't force folks to change things. we have redirects here that are years old and its only a temp thing but folks are things pointing to old location 21:11:11 <skvidal> sijis: yes, and? 21:11:13 <sijis> (just ranting a bit.. sorry) 21:11:35 <ricky> That's a good reason to set a time limit 21:11:58 <smooge> sijis, websites are like linux api's 21:12:40 <smooge> I feel your pain.. I had to redirect for 4 different RH websites at one point 21:12:51 <CodeBlock> hmm 21:12:52 <smooge> I think the config file was mostly redirects 21:12:55 <smooge> anyway. 21:13:29 * sijis can disable the blogs registration right now 21:13:33 <smooge> we have moved that we will kill signups to the blog. 21:13:45 <ricky> sijis: Great, thanks1 21:13:48 <smooge> so go ahead. if I get blowback I will let you know 21:13:49 <CodeBlock> #agreed willing blog signups in preparation for move to wp.c 21:13:55 * CodeBlock wonders if he needs to be a chair to do #agreed 21:14:07 <CodeBlock> and killing* not willing 21:14:08 * CodeBlock failed that up 21:14:13 <CodeBlock> *anyway* 21:14:20 * sijis registrations disabled 21:14:46 <sijis> i'm not sure if we #startedmeeting 21:14:50 <CodeBlock> in that case 21:15:04 <CodeBlock> #action sijis killed blog registration in preparation for move to wp.c 21:15:08 <CodeBlock> ;D 21:15:19 <CodeBlock> sijis: yeah, I think smooge did 21:15:33 <CodeBlock> because he added a few chairs above 21:15:34 <averi> we can't start another meeting, one is running already 21:15:47 <CodeBlock> ok so what else 21:15:54 <CodeBlock> #topic hosted mailing list pruning 21:16:11 <averi> I gave a look at the hosted mailing list and http://averi.fedorapeople.org/inactive_lists.hosted.txt 21:16:11 * CodeBlock isn't a chair, and zodbot isn't op'd and the channel is +t so that is completely pointless. BUT ANYWAY. 21:16:38 <smooge> #action sijis killed blog registration in preparation for move to wp.c 21:16:41 <averi> I've found out dozens of lists are unused and inactive since some time now 21:16:44 <smooge> it will be in the logs 21:17:10 <averi> point is what should we do with them? and what's the current policy for new lists there to avoid people making new lists with no point? 21:17:26 <ricky> We can ping list owners and ask them if they're still needed. 21:17:50 <skvidal> to put some context on this 21:17:50 <ricky> We could also ping with an "if you don't respond in X, we'll delete the lists (but not the archives)" 21:17:52 <skvidal> 196 total lists 21:18:06 <skvidal> 76 of them have no messages 21:18:10 <skvidal> 56 more no messages in 2011 21:18:26 <ricky> Before doing something like that, I think it'd be good to investigate how easy it is to restart a deleted list 21:18:28 <CodeBlock> averi: I'd be fine with a "If your list goes inactive for 60 days or more, it will be considered for deletion" policy, personally. 21:18:29 <smooge> The main reason I would want to clean up lists: we are making "free spam" websites for people finding unused lists, signing up, and filling up stuff and then sending bit.ly urls out the woods 21:18:42 <skvidal> ricky: maybe in lieu of deleting them 21:18:48 <skvidal> ricky: we could consider closing them 21:18:53 <skvidal> ricky: which means no new posts 21:18:53 <averi> CodeBlock, yup 21:18:55 <phuzion> skvidal: what about lists with no messages since 6 months ago, August 17, 2010? 21:18:55 <ricky> Perhaps hosted lists have turned into something people just request automatically when making a project. 21:18:56 <skvidal> but the archives persist 21:19:12 <ricky> skvidal: Ah, and it's easy to go from closed -> active if we somehow need to do so? 21:19:20 <skvidal> ricky: you can just reopen the list 21:19:31 <skvidal> ricky: in the mailman config 21:19:39 <ricky> So maybe we can make it clearer on the hosted pages "please only request a list if you'll actually use it" 21:19:42 <ricky> Cool. 21:19:53 <ricky> Or "if you have <3 developers and 0 users, you probably don't need a list yet" 21:20:08 <smooge> +1 contact list owners with no traffic in 3+ months. Close off lists versus delete 21:20:23 <CodeBlock> worksforme. 21:20:43 <smooge> if no answer from owner in 14 days list is closed 21:20:46 * ricky signs at the amount of time we need to spend cleaning up crap. Not much else to do though I guess. 21:20:58 <ricky> Er, sorry, I misphrased that second sentence 21:20:58 <skvidal> ricky: there are other projects 21:21:01 <ricky> "Not much choice though" 21:21:02 <smooge> correct. it is why we get paid the big bucks 21:21:07 <skvidal> and averi lemme ask you a question 21:21:12 <skvidal> averi: is this something you would like to work on? 21:21:17 <skvidal> averi: helping us clean up the lists? 21:21:26 <skvidal> averi: b/c if you would I'd +1 to giving you list admin access right now 21:21:29 <ricky> There are definitely other projects - didn't mean to say that :-) 21:21:31 <CodeBlock> smooge: See you can say that being an RH employee. Some of us can't. 21:21:32 <CodeBlock> :P 21:21:43 <skvidal> CodeBlock: trust me - he can't :) 21:21:47 <smooge> I got paid the big bucks to do this when I was a volunteer 21:21:49 <averi> skvidal, sure, it was part of my cleanup duty started yesterday :) 21:22:02 <skvidal> anyone else object to averi working on the above project? 21:22:06 <smooge> its all confederate money 21:22:17 <ricky> OK, so the group would be sysadmin-tools - I'd b ehappy to sponsor 21:22:26 <smooge> skvidal, averi is there a ticket number for this? 21:22:34 <CodeBlock> ricky: tools? 21:22:48 <averi> smooge, not yet, I started this off yesterday after a chat with skvidal 21:22:51 <CodeBlock> -hosted, no? 21:22:58 <ricky> Oh, never mind, I was thinking lists.fp.o, sorry. 21:23:03 <skvidal> averi: can you make a ticket and we'll get it underway 21:23:11 <averi> skvidal, sure 21:23:20 <ricky> And he's already in -hosted, great. 21:23:24 <CodeBlock> ricky: yep :) 21:23:41 * CodeBlock sponsored him yesterday. He's my first sponsoree. I think. 21:23:45 * nirik thinks a 'inactive list sop' might be good too. ;) Just sayin... 21:24:14 <CodeBlock> nirik: I can draw that up today 21:24:28 <skvidal> averi: so since you're in -hosted 21:24:33 <CodeBlock> well at least with the rules. I'm not sure how to actually close lists yet 21:24:54 <smooge> averi, put in a ticket to cover this please.. just list what you are doing, what you found and track progress in it. 21:25:10 <averi> smooge, ok, will do after meeting 21:25:17 <smooge> thanks 21:25:40 <smooge> and an SOP will definately be needed. 21:25:45 <smooge> ok anything else? 21:25:56 <skvidal> one thing 21:26:01 <smooge> #topic one thing 21:26:14 <skvidal> ricky: are you looking for another project to help with cleanup that's not just browsing and deleting? 21:26:30 <averi> smooge, sure, I am full of stuff for uni, so please remember it will take a bit for me to complete the SOP and the whole work 21:26:39 <ricky> Sure, why not :-) 21:27:12 <averi> smooge, guess we don't need to rush on this anyway :) 21:27:12 <skvidal> averi: of course 21:27:15 * CodeBlock accidentally laughs out loud in the completely quiet building he is in ($dayjob) at smooge's #topic 21:27:33 <skvidal> ricky: how about working on the db/script for tracking publictest instances/shutdowns 21:27:52 <skvidal> right now if it were just a cron job which sent out 'shut it down' notices 21:27:53 <skvidal> it would be fine 21:27:58 <skvidal> just need the data 21:28:29 <skvidal> I haven't had a chance to get to this 21:28:38 <ricky> Sure thing, I'll take a look 21:28:42 <skvidal> and it seems like something which could benefit us for nuking the publictest boxes 21:29:07 * ricky is thinking a simple sqlite database that lives on puppet01 somewhere. 21:29:15 <ricky> With a spam cronjob 21:29:29 <skvidal> +1 21:30:22 <skvidal> okay 21:30:27 <skvidal> another task for someone 21:30:34 <skvidal> does someone want to change the sudoers for publictest* 21:30:40 <skvidal> so sysadmin-main is password-less? 21:30:50 <CodeBlock> sure 21:31:01 <CodeBlock> I'd be happy to make my first private repo commit :) 21:31:31 <ricky> Woo, glad to finally have that 21:31:56 <skvidal> CodeBlock: make it so 21:31:57 <CodeBlock> skvidal: Will do that tonight/next time I get on my laptop..which is now the only place that my ssh key resides. 21:32:03 <skvidal> pretty much 21:32:10 <skvidal> I'm looking at this list 21:32:10 <skvidal> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure_Cleanup_Tasks_2011 21:33:02 <smooge> ok 21:33:22 <skvidal> that's all I had 21:33:26 <skvidal> thanks 21:33:30 <CodeBlock> Ok .. so things I have to do tonight - aside from precalc homework: Start on a SOP for FH list removal, make -main have passwordless sudo on ptXX 21:33:45 <CodeBlock> got it. :) 21:33:56 <skvidal> :) 21:34:15 * CodeBlock really needs to find that cli todo program he used to have.. it was really good. :( 21:34:36 * ricky uses vim-outliner - I think abadger1999 and lmacken use it as well. 21:34:47 <ricky> Er, I mean vim-vimoutliner 21:34:55 <ricky> smooge: Want to #endmeeting? 21:35:22 <smooge> #endmeeting