18:00:14 <smooge> #startmeeting Infrastructure [2012-06-07] 18:00:14 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 28 18:00:14 2012 UTC. The chair is smooge. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:14 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:25 <smooge> #meetingname infrastructure 18:00:25 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure' 18:00:39 <smooge> #topic Robot Roll Call 18:00:41 * pingou 18:00:45 * skvidal is here 18:00:54 * relrod here 18:02:03 <smooge> My apologies for not emailing out an agenda. We will use the last one. 18:02:20 <smooge> abadger1999, threebean are you around? 18:02:33 <abadger1999> si, señor 18:03:23 <smooge> #topic New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks. 18:03:31 <smooge> ok any new people for this meeting. 18:03:57 <smooge> <chirp> <chirp> 18:04:07 <smooge> alright then.. we can work on the next issue: 18:04:10 <smooge> #topic Applications status / discussion 18:04:32 <smooge> I am guessing that threebean lmacken are at summit so not much from then. 18:04:45 <pingou> there is a pkgwat from threebean 18:04:52 <pingou> cli from the packages webapp 18:04:58 <pingou> s/from/for/ 18:05:09 <smooge> I haven't gotten to that email.. what does it do? 18:05:11 <pingou> https://github.com/ralphbean/pkgwat 18:05:45 * relrod doesn't have much of an update on the fedorahosted app but the CLI has been updated to use optparse instead of argparse after skvidal showed me that I'm an idiot for using argparse ;) (ok he said it much nicer than that) 18:05:57 <skvidal> I never said idiot! 18:06:15 <skvidal> I only said argparse is not obviously available on rhel6 18:06:32 <smooge> remember relrod he sometimes uses the word mron and means mricon 18:06:36 <pingou> python-argparse-1.2.1-2.el6.noarch 18:06:41 <skvidal> pingou: from epel, iirc 18:06:41 <pingou> it is, as a separate package 18:06:49 <skvidal> pingou: and bringing that in as a dep 18:06:52 <skvidal> for a server app 18:06:56 <skvidal> needs a lot of justification 18:06:57 <skvidal> imo 18:07:02 <skvidal> b/c what he was writing 18:07:03 * relrod agrees, just didn't know 18:07:08 <skvidal> he was going to need to put it on EVERY server 18:07:16 <skvidal> which is, imo, not a good trade off 18:07:22 <pingou> (yup for epel) 18:07:29 <skvidal> especially when optparser is there 18:07:33 <skvidal> and it works just fine 18:07:56 <skvidal> the "benefits" of argparse are not incredibly obvious 18:08:12 <skvidal> and it is CLEAR to me that optparser is not going away anytime soon 18:08:38 * relrod agrees. Again I just didn't know ;) 18:08:40 <pingou> fair enough 18:08:47 * pingou was curious 18:09:12 <smooge> ok.. cool from all accounts 18:09:28 <skvidal> I have no problem with argparse - I only have an issue with extra, external deps 18:09:29 <smooge> ianweller, you around ? 18:10:12 <sdrfed17> hi team, sdrfed17 here for the meeting 18:10:17 <pingou> relrod: you were testing the latest fas right ? 18:10:23 <relrod> skvidal: sorry I didn't mean to have to make you defend what you said. I was just trying to joke around above. You made a good point, I just thought (because of the whole "I installed this locally and forgot" thing) that it was widely available on rhel6 and/or a default 18:10:56 <skvidal> relrod: no problem - I'm used to havving to defend myself. It's why I carry a +20 shield of arrogance w/me at all times 18:11:27 <smooge> it also doubles as a +20 shield of agrolance 18:11:33 <relrod> pingou: I was testing whatever is on fas01.dev, but I haven't done too much with it lately. Mostly I just needed a test ground for the fedorahosted app 18:12:01 <pingou> relrod: ok, I was wondering about the status of the pending patches from the trac 18:12:38 <relrod> pingou: the one I applied/abadger1999 linked to seems to be working I think. 18:12:55 <pingou> ok thanks :) 18:13:44 <abadger1999> relrod: were you thinking of managing the other patches and a release? 18:13:52 <abadger1999> relrod: Or want me to move that back to my todo? 18:14:17 <relrod> abadger1999: Yeah, I can do that. 18:14:23 <abadger1999> Cool. 18:14:43 <abadger1999> Other app news: I started compiling a list of all of our web applications: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure_Services_Survey threebean and relrod added some more things to it. If you know of more, feel free to add. 18:15:46 <abadger1999> I'll also be sending that out to the list as part of a message about what we can do to alleviate the maintenance burden for coding on apps. 18:15:54 <abadger1999> (Right after the meeting) 18:16:36 * pingou puts old TG1 - 18:16:37 <smooge> oi.. can we add any other frameworks in there? say a perl and a java one 18:16:43 * pingou puts old TG1 -> TG1 for mm on his todo 18:18:19 <abadger1999> smooge: We could deploy bugzilla and jboss :-) 18:18:32 <abadger1999> If you want. If you really really want. 18:18:59 <relrod> pingou: well before we do that, we should probably decide which frameworks we're going to stick with. I think abadger1999 mentioned possibly using flask for mirrormanager(?) 18:19:03 <skvidal> do we have any clojure or maybe haskell webapps? 18:19:06 <skvidal> let's do that 18:19:33 <relrod> skvidal: and RoR and Scala too! 18:19:37 <skvidal> relrod: no 18:19:39 <skvidal> no ruby at all 18:19:42 <pingou> skvidal: C++ cgi ? :) 18:19:43 <skvidal> relrod: just out of spite to you :) 18:19:46 <skvidal> pingou: asm 18:19:51 <pingou> oh yeah! 18:20:18 <smooge> ok any other items on this or have we mined the bottoms yet? 18:20:27 <clockfort> I know rossdylan (intern under threebean) has been updating parts of pyramid to avoid a dependency-hell problem he encountered while trying to upgrade pyramid 18:20:27 <pingou> relrod: mm needs to move to SA I think anyway, and converting it to genshi/mako shouldn't be a big problem 18:20:46 <clockfort> something about all of its dependencies requiring different versions of webob 18:20:49 * abadger1999 has no more serious comments for here. 18:20:51 <rossdylan> Hi, sorry about that, had a errand 18:21:11 <smooge> #topic Upcoming Tasks/Items 18:21:18 <skvidal> abadger1999: so I think I like your suggestion 18:21:18 <relrod> pingou: *shrug* I just would hate to see you waste time if we decide to do away with tg1 18:21:31 <skvidal> abadger1999: you made before - of having a lightweight and a heavierweight framework 18:21:47 <skvidal> abadger1999: for apps which require less interface pizazz - flask 18:22:03 <skvidal> for ones that require more bells and whistles $Turbogears/Moksha/etc-of-the-month 18:22:05 <pingou> relrod: http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=mirrormanager;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/tg2merge too late :) 18:23:25 <abadger1999> skvidal: Yeah. I think that makes more sense than what we have now. 18:23:41 <skvidal> abadger1999: if we figure mm requires less on the interface side... then flask might be a lightweight place to get simple user input collected and stuffed into a db 18:23:53 <skvidal> since, afaict, mm doesn't require much in the display world 18:24:07 <pingou> it for sure has lots of logic behind the scene 18:24:14 <abadger1999> yep. 18:24:18 <pingou> flask maybe an option for it 18:24:36 <abadger1999> A lot of the mm magic is done outside of hte web ui process. 18:24:46 <pingou> but the move from SO to SA would already help to convert to flask or TG2 or... imho 18:24:52 <abadger1999> <nod> 18:25:02 <abadger1999> Yeah, it would be great to move it off of SO. 18:25:16 <abadger1999> no matter what framework we move to. 18:25:29 <abadger1999> And everything but django seems to support SA so it's a good choice :-) 18:25:57 <abadger1999> (Even django with some hacks) 18:26:51 <skvidal> okay - sorry I took us off in the weeds a bit 18:27:14 <smooge> SO SA? 18:27:19 <skvidal> sqlobject 18:27:21 <skvidal> sql alchemy 18:27:25 <smooge> thankyou 18:27:40 <smooge> ok back to the agenda? 18:27:57 <smooge> #info 2012-06-21 to 2012-07-04 Kevin is off on trains and boats. 18:27:57 <smooge> #info 2012-06-26 Fedora 15 end of life. 18:27:57 <smooge> #info 2012-06-28 Seth at jury duty. 18:27:57 <smooge> #info 2012-07-02 remove people with pkgdb bugzilla issues. 18:27:57 <smooge> #info 2012-07-05 nag fi-apprentices 18:27:59 <smooge> #info 2012-07-12 drop inactive apprentices. 18:28:01 <smooge> #info 2012-08-07 to 2012-08-21 F18 Alpha Freeze 18:28:03 <smooge> #info 2012-08-21 F18 Alpha release. 18:28:03 <skvidal> so 18:28:05 <smooge> Seth? 18:28:07 <skvidal> I got out of jury dury! 18:28:09 <skvidal> err duty 18:28:22 <skvidal> they said "don't need you!" 18:28:57 <smooge> ok cool 18:29:07 <skvidal> that was all 18:29:15 <abadger1999> Are we removing people w/ pkgdb bugzilla issues on that date still? Or waiting for nirik/fesco for the go ahead? 18:29:52 <smooge> I think we should wait for nirik/fesco 18:30:14 <skvidal> that way 18:30:16 <skvidal> if it goes wrong 18:30:19 <skvidal> we can blame him 18:30:20 <skvidal> :) 18:30:22 <smooge> #info Move pkgdb bugzilla to after nirik fesco are done. 18:30:26 <skvidal> :) 18:30:36 <smooge> #info 2012-07-10 move epel list to Fedoraproject lists 18:31:45 <smooge> So F15 eol'd earlier this week. We will do the moving to archives next month? 18:33:01 <smooge> Ok I will add that then 18:33:15 <smooge> anything else in upcoming items? 18:33:33 <smooge> #topic FAD 18:33:54 <smooge> ok relrod I still need to add my info to that page. I am sorry 18:34:18 <pingou> there are two pages which are a little bit out of sync iirc 18:34:25 <smooge> ah ok what are they 18:34:44 <pingou> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Infrastructure_Security_2012 and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Infrastructure_Security_2012/attendees 18:35:03 <pingou> locations don't match on the two page 18:35:04 <pingou> +s 18:35:10 <abadger1999> relrod: Maybe it would also be helpful to identify who we must have at the FAD. 18:35:38 <abadger1999> then structure things like date and location around where they can be. 18:35:57 <skvidal> seeing as denver will soon be engulfed in flames 18:36:06 <skvidal> 1. I suspect flying in there will soon be very cheap 18:36:13 <skvidal> 2. but hotel rooms might be hard to come by 18:36:45 * skvidal is not being silly 18:36:49 <skvidal> nor flippant 18:36:54 <skvidal> I'm actually serious 18:37:00 <skvidal> the number of refugees from the fires 18:37:06 <skvidal> will limit hotel room availability 18:37:19 <relrod> hm 18:37:35 <abadger1999> <nod> 18:38:10 <relrod> abadger1999: everyone seems pretty much really open on dates though, I haven't seen that be an issue yet 18:38:49 <skvidal> I have one issue 18:38:52 <skvidal> I am adding it now 18:39:24 <smooge> relrod, could you include one page into the other so they are 'consolidated' 18:39:32 <skvidal> datewise - early sept is becoming closed out for me 18:39:57 <pingou> sept is harvest time :) 18:40:04 <relrod> smooge: I can add a link from one to the other and vice versa, sure 18:40:12 <skvidal> pingou: hah sept is prime vacation time for me 18:40:20 <skvidal> pingou: all the people with kids have left the nice vacation-y places 18:40:21 <pingou> skvidal: me to :) 18:40:30 <skvidal> pingou: so I can enjoy and not deal with families 18:40:45 <pingou> skvidal: in the countryard, with lots of wineyard :) 18:40:54 <skvidal> pingou: heh 18:41:29 <smooge> so we have a FAD in September at the Outer Banks. Seems legit 18:41:48 <skvidal> oooo 18:41:50 <skvidal> we could rent one house 18:41:57 <skvidal> and everyone could get a separate room 18:42:02 <skvidal> hackfests on the big deck outside 18:42:10 <skvidal> overlooking the ocean 18:42:13 <skvidal> sounds like a winner 18:42:16 <relrod> hah 18:42:34 * abadger1999 suddenly cannot imagine a hackfest any other way :-) 18:42:50 <pingou> where can we sign ? :) 18:43:33 <smooge> we can only do this during hurricane season though... 18:43:39 <skvidal> well duh 18:43:44 <skvidal> that's where the pressure comes from 18:43:55 <skvidal> specifically a massive high-pressure system ;) 18:43:56 <pingou> "I've got to finish this before the power goes out" 18:44:10 <skvidal> pingou: s/power goes out/the house is scourged from the earth/ 18:45:07 <skvidal> smooge: sorry for taking things off in the weeds 18:45:16 <smooge> you can't leave until these things are decided. Sorry no evac til its tg2 or pyramid 18:45:30 <smooge> ok well I think we will just go to the last thing and close it out. 18:45:39 <smooge> #topic Open Floor 18:46:01 <smooge> Ok next week we have a US holiday in the middle of the week. 18:46:10 <smooge> So don't expect much on July 4th from people 18:47:09 <skvidal> and as another point to that 18:47:13 <skvidal> don't break anything, either 18:47:18 <skvidal> :) 18:47:29 <pingou> "with great power..." 18:47:37 <relrod> skvidal: but breaking things is fun! :( 18:47:49 <skvidal> pingou: nice 18:48:29 <skvidal> smooge: anything else? 18:48:47 <smooge> no 18:48:52 <skvidal> cool 18:48:57 <smooge> #endmeeting