16:30:05 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG
16:30:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 19 16:30:05 2009 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:30:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:30:11 <nirik> #namemeeting irc-support-sig
16:30:23 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig
16:30:23 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
16:30:31 <nirik> #topic Init process / Roll Call
16:30:57 <nirik> who all is around for meeting?
16:31:00 * Jeff_S waves from the back row
16:31:19 * zcat 
16:31:24 <EvilBob> Good Morning Chicago!
16:33:36 * nirik waits a bit more for folks to wander in.
16:33:47 <EvilBob> s/wander/stumble
16:34:32 * hiemanshu is kind of here
16:35:14 * maxamillion is here-ish
16:35:37 <nirik> ok, I guess lets go ahead and get started...
16:36:04 <nirik> #topic Release re-cap
16:36:21 <nirik> So, release of f12 was tuesday. How did things go?
16:36:24 <EvilBob> I think we all did very well.
16:36:46 <EvilBob> I only attempted to strangle 3 years
16:36:49 <nirik> yeah, I'm sorry I wasn't around for release time/morning... but it seems to have been pretty smooth.
16:36:50 * thomasj here
16:36:55 <EvilBob> s/years/users
16:37:42 <nirik> ok. I don't really have anything off hand we could do better, aside from more helpers I suppose...
16:37:48 <nirik> which brings up the next topic...
16:37:55 <nirik> #topic Voice
16:38:13 <EvilBob> Voice worked very well when thomasj implemented it
16:38:24 <nirik> We voiced some helpers on release day when it was crazy to show them apart from just random new users giving advice
16:38:27 <EvilBob> I don't think it is something we need to do all the time
16:38:32 <thomasj> +1
16:38:35 <nirik> yeah, is this something we want to look at doing more? or no?
16:38:48 <thomasj> No here
16:38:48 <nirik> we have talked about it in the past some.
16:38:56 <EvilBob> nirik: it was not so much other giving advice, it was just trying to get in the way it seemed.
16:39:00 <Southern_Gentlem> not on other days than that i dont think it is needed
16:39:18 <EvilBob> I agree, NO. Only during heavy flow.
16:39:27 <zcat> yes - heavy flow days are OK
16:39:40 <hiemanshu> No from me too
16:39:41 <zcat> otherwise the admin overhead is suck.
16:39:41 <Southern_Gentlem> release day yes
16:40:27 <EvilBob> We do not really want to play favorites in general
16:40:33 <thomasj> +1
16:40:34 <EvilBob> and that is how it would appear
16:40:35 <nirik> yeah, the big issue is 'who gets voiced' which could cause ill will or overhead.
16:40:37 <Southern_Gentlem> also disable fedbot from spewing to the channel \
16:40:40 <nirik> yep.
16:40:45 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: +1
16:40:45 <nirik> Southern_Gentlem: hang on, next topic. ;)
16:40:53 <zcat> (voice/devoice, forget to voice/devoice, voice/devoice channel spam, voice/devoice questioning from users...)
16:40:56 <nirik> so, it sounds like no for voice...
16:41:06 * nirik is fine with that.
16:41:38 <thomasj> A general no, yes.
16:41:48 <EvilBob> yes, No?
16:41:52 <thomasj> haha
16:41:53 <EvilBob> LOL
16:41:56 <nirik> ha.
16:42:06 <nirik> #topic Bot Aliases in channel
16:42:06 <Southern_Gentlem> except on release day
16:42:12 <EvilBob> Yes to nirik, No to Voice
16:42:27 <nirik> next topic... some people were overusing the bot release alias on the release morning...
16:42:35 <zcat> @f12release
16:42:36 <fedbot> Released -> http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora
16:42:44 <nirik> yeah, that. I guess we can set it back now.
16:42:46 <EvilBob> Bot aliases in the channel in general is bad on heavy days
16:43:02 <EvilBob> so how do we judge heavy?
16:43:08 <nirik> yeah, on release day it's probibly good to remove it...
16:43:20 <EvilBob> or is None other than ops the answer?
16:43:25 <nirik> or restrict it.
16:43:27 <thomasj> Well, it wasn't *that* bad. And people were happy to get the info. Of course it introduced the bot to some new users.
16:43:51 <nirik> yeah, it made them anticipate the release.
16:44:02 <EvilBob> As ops I think we should always request the spam in private
16:44:04 <nirik> and it meant that they didn't ask us when the release was all the time.
16:44:07 <nirik> but it was heavy.
16:44:16 <zcat> I'm with thomasj that the bot spam wasn't *that* bad - but many hate it on principle
16:44:22 <nirik> EvilBob: how do you mean?
16:44:23 <EvilBob> sent the command in private then the output to the channel
16:44:26 <Southern_Gentlem> or set the bot to respond in private
16:44:51 <EvilBob> that way we do not have the "users" knowing the commands
16:44:54 <Southern_Gentlem> which is one requirement we had for the bot
16:44:59 <EvilBob> for them to then abuse
16:45:08 <nirik> EvilBob: perhaps, but some are usefull when ops aren't around.
16:45:17 <zcat> @googlesays EvilBob bacon
16:45:19 <fedbot> EvilBob: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon (this is a google 'I feel lucky' search result)
16:45:49 <nirik> Southern_Gentlem: I don't think we should have it always respond in private. I think sometimes that makes it worse.
16:45:49 <EvilBob> zcat: Please we are trying to have a meeting
16:45:49 <EvilBob> leave the damn bot alone
16:45:51 <Southern_Gentlem> and why not have the bot send to them in private
16:46:05 <nirik> Southern_Gentlem: because things like release time/eol are something someone wants to share with someone in channel.
16:46:16 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: for users I think that is acceptable
16:46:45 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: but ops or other trusted helpers should be able to direct to the channel I would think
16:46:46 <nirik> or if someone says @f12release and nothing happens, someone else will say, what is the release time? when they could just look because it output 20seconds before. ;)
16:46:52 <EvilBob> that is why they are trusted
16:46:57 <Southern_Gentlem> ok disable for release days  and we will see how the spam goes if it becomes a problem we can address it then
16:47:23 <EvilBob> I think we should make some changes now so we don't forget
16:47:27 <nirik> I personally don't think it's been bad up until release day... but I know some people really don't like the bot to say anything.
16:48:00 <EvilBob> it will take some time to implement and also time for us to change our ways and develope new policy over the next 5 months
16:48:06 <nirik> We might want to make a 'release day SOP for IRC Support' page on the wiki... things we need to do around releases: remove aliases from the bot, voice people, etc
16:48:09 <EvilBob> develop
16:48:24 <nirik> so we don't forget any steps in 6 months.
16:48:47 <thomasj> Any volunteers?
16:48:58 * thomasj speaks to engrish to do it
16:49:16 <Southern_Gentlem> the best thing that happened release day is the torrents open up early and most of the mirrors
16:49:20 * nirik could, but been busy lately.
16:49:28 <nirik> Southern_Gentlem: yeah, that really made is smooth.
16:49:50 <EvilBob> I would be willing to work up a proposal for general bot operations not just for release day, I think we should be consistent all the time for the most part.
16:49:52 <nirik> EvilBob: so, what changes do you propose now?
16:50:08 <zcat> +1 status quo, except on rowdy release days
16:50:22 <EvilBob> nirik: I think we should write it up, discuss at the next meeting
16:50:24 <nirik> EvilBob: ok. If you want to work something up that would be great... we can discuss/review
16:50:51 <nirik> zcat: thats my thought. On release days nuke aliases for users capability, otherwise I think it's being usefull as it is.
16:50:51 <EvilBob> I will get things started some time this weekend
16:50:56 <nirik> EvilBob: excellent.
16:51:11 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
16:51:16 <EvilBob> I will post to the -ops channel for others to add their ideas
16:51:20 <nirik> Anyone have anything for open floor?
16:51:27 <hiemanshu> EvilBob: I would be around if you need some help
16:51:35 <thomasj> EvilBob, perfect.
16:51:38 <EvilBob> We had one troll that was in several channels
16:51:44 * Southern_Gentlem off to organize moving server room this weekend
16:51:59 <EvilBob> #fedora -social and -devel
16:52:05 <zcat> nirik, congrats on XFCE being the #2 downloaded spin! (after LXDE got nuked :)
16:52:07 <nirik> EvilBob: yeah. ;(
16:52:21 <nirik> zcat: yeah, seems a sad victory since lxde got pulled. ;(
16:52:37 <EvilBob> there is normally a lack of -ops available in -devel, should we look at getting a few of you oped in there?
16:53:03 <nirik> EvilBob: I got added now, so I am available to assist there. Also, I think mmcgrath was added and he's often around.
16:53:15 <EvilBob> Right on
16:53:47 <nirik> it's not been needed much in the past, but it has been 2 times in the last few weeks now. ;(
16:53:55 <Southern_Gentlem> i am always willing to be an op in another channel as an emergency backup
16:54:09 <zcat> btw - seems DiscordianUK is content to remain a helper in #fedora VS an op.
16:54:14 <EvilBob> nirik: right, that is why I was thinking just a couple that are normally there anyhow
16:54:30 <nirik> zcat: ah, was going to ask about that. ok, great to have him helping.
16:54:42 <nirik> oh, didn't do stats this week. ;(
16:54:56 <nirik> not that it matters much, but http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html as always.
16:55:17 <nirik> the nvidia howto/links are very popular. ;(
16:55:19 <EvilBob> we now have weekly stats for -social also
16:55:55 <EvilBob> http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-social-weekly.html
16:56:16 * nirik sees he is anti-social and not on the list there. ;)
16:56:59 <EvilBob> lol
16:57:01 <hiemanshu> nirik: #fedora-antisocial for you then :P
16:57:14 <EvilBob> nirik: I can op you there is you like
16:57:18 <EvilBob> s/is/if
16:57:55 <nirik> ha. Too many channels already.
16:57:58 <EvilBob> Wrap it up?
16:57:59 <nirik> anyhow, anything else?
16:58:29 * nirik will close out the meeting in a minute if nothing else comes up.
16:59:12 <nirik> thanks for coming everyone!
16:59:18 <nirik> #endmeeting