17:01:16 <EvilBob> #startmeeting
17:01:16 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 21 17:01:16 2011 UTC.  The chair is EvilBob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:16 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:16 <EvilBob> #meetingname irc-support-sig
17:01:16 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
17:01:16 <EvilBob> #meetingtopic IRC Support SIG Meeting
17:01:55 <EvilBob> We have a normal 2 topic meeting with an Open Floor to follow
17:01:57 <EvilBob> Feel free to reply to this with additional topics, or bring them up in
17:01:57 <EvilBob> the "Open Floor" section of the meeting.
17:02:31 <EvilBob> I'm going to wait 5minutes if there is no objections before we start
17:02:40 <Sonar_Gal> works for me
17:02:45 <EvilBob> or wait until 5 after
17:02:59 <Sonar_Gal> wait till 5 after
17:03:07 <Sonar_Gal> Who's here for the meeting
17:03:15 * DiscordianUK 
17:03:17 <EvilBob> Yeah, who is here
17:03:23 * Sonar_Gal 
17:03:28 * EvilBob 
17:03:30 <EvilBob> ;)
17:03:30 * NiveusLuna raises hand.
17:03:54 * Sonar_Gal takes the platter of bacon from EvilBob to pass around
17:04:05 * EvilBob stabs Sonar_Gal in the arm
17:04:21 * nirik waves
17:04:22 <Sonar_Gal> you have to catch me first
17:05:01 <EvilBob> #topic Week in Review
17:05:01 <EvilBob> #link http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
17:05:54 <EvilBob> 7 kicks
17:06:26 <EvilBob> I don't see the "ban number"
17:06:34 <EvilBob> Seemed like a normal week
17:06:44 <EvilBob> Anything interesting?
17:07:13 <nirik> pretty normal.
17:07:16 <nirik> beta came out.
17:07:20 <DiscordianUK> Seemed pretty normal
17:07:24 <nirik> so lots of folks coming in from that.
17:07:29 <vwbusguy> yeah
17:07:30 <DiscordianUK> I suspect next week will be busier
17:07:34 <nirik> and our per cycle ban list got wiped.
17:07:44 <NiveusLuna> "per cycle"?
17:07:45 <DiscordianUK> and over the holidays too
17:07:59 <DiscordianUK> Next few weeks lots of UK people will be on leave
17:08:25 <Sonar_Gal> here the big spring break is this week and next week
17:08:33 <nirik> NiveusLuna: per release cycle. Everytime at beta we wipe out the ban list.
17:08:50 <NiveusLuna> ah.
17:08:51 <DiscordianUK> 2 consecutive 4 day weekends
17:08:56 <NiveusLuna> wow.
17:09:03 <NiveusLuna> yeah, we're gonna be busy...
17:09:06 <EvilBob> OK anything else on this past or coming week?
17:09:12 <DiscordianUK> so many will have taken the three days off in between
17:09:26 <EvilBob> #topic Feedback Tickets
17:09:26 <EvilBob> #link https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1
17:09:35 <EvilBob> We have no open tickets
17:09:37 * dcr226 creeps in
17:09:45 <EvilBob> One ticket opened and closed.
17:09:45 <EvilBob> #link https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/44
17:10:34 <EvilBob> I closed it, I saw no reason to keep it open. The user was, it seems, just looking for a fight then wanted to complain after getting it.
17:10:34 <DiscordianUK> The OP of that was on earlier I got the impression he's now more used to Fedora
17:11:20 <EvilBob> We have been told it is out of character for the user to behave this way based on other channels they are in.
17:11:41 <DiscordianUK> Perhaps it was a bad day then
17:11:50 <Sonar_Gal> That is possible
17:11:57 <Sonar_Gal> But like I always say
17:12:01 <EvilBob> Just a reminder, try not to inflame situations, our "job" is to help cool them down when ever possible.
17:12:07 <Sonar_Gal> Treat people the way you want to be treated
17:12:23 * nirik points everyone again to http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml
17:12:35 <nirik> minimal, lower heat not raise it...
17:12:52 <vwbusguy> Sonar_Gal, +1
17:13:12 * mock sneaks in the back and looks for any leftover bacon
17:13:15 <EvilBob> If you are going to "OP up" you should instead just mute the user as per our SOP
17:13:33 * DiscordianUK takes note
17:13:48 <EvilBob> there is no need to be "threatening" a user by going op and no using it
17:13:57 <Sonar_Gal> Basically give them a timeout so the situation can cool off
17:13:57 <EvilBob> anything else?
17:14:04 <EvilBob> Sonar_Gal: +1
17:14:15 <vwbusguy> Sonar_Gal, +1
17:14:54 <EvilBob> I guess this brings us to the open floor
17:14:56 <EvilBob> #topic Open Floor
17:14:56 <EvilBob> Does anyone have anything to add?
17:15:22 <nirik> EvilBob: there was mention of possibly holding some training to help us all deal with things better... any update on where that might be?
17:15:36 <Sonar_Gal> Bacon is still #1 in the weekly stats for -social
17:15:41 <dcr226> yeah, is "quiet" on our wiki page as a first-line?
17:15:47 <dcr226> Sonar_Gal, nice
17:15:59 <EvilBob> nirik: I have not heard back from Jay, Will try again later this week, I don't want to call him at work.
17:16:00 <vwbusguy> Sonar_Gal, sausage will catch up one day
17:16:13 <Sonar_Gal> haha
17:16:14 * DiscordianUK notes that some fedora 15 questions still need to go to #fedora-qa during the beta period
17:16:21 <nirik> dcr226: not sure, should be added if not.
17:16:45 <nirik> EvilBob: no worries. ;) I think it could be cool to run thru some things like we have seen in tickets and see how we could all handle them better...
17:16:59 <vwbusguy> DiscordianUK, yeah, I think any ones that are bug related should go there
17:16:59 <Sonar_Gal> I agree
17:17:07 <NiveusLuna> I do have a question. Why is #fedora opened up to beta release versions?
17:17:16 <NiveusLuna> I thought it was stable stuff only.
17:17:19 <vwbusguy> DiscordianUK, basic stuff like "How to change screensaver" are maybe ok, but "My wifi keeps disconnecting" should prolly go to -QA
17:17:27 <Sonar_Gal> NiveusLuna, Normally most of the bugs are worked out for beta
17:17:36 <NiveusLuna> Sonar_Gal: ah. okay then.
17:17:37 <EvilBob> Oh, just a note of a personal nature from me. I have surgery scheduled for May 23rd, I will need someone to take the meeting for May 26th.
17:17:40 <DiscordianUK> and some of the gnome3 stuff belongs elsewhere too
17:17:52 <nirik> EvilBob: I can probibly do it.
17:17:54 <EvilBob> and maybe the couple following weeks
17:17:56 <vwbusguy> DiscordianUK, yeah like /dev/null ;-)
17:17:56 <DiscordianUK> Is there a #fedora-gnome ?
17:18:19 <NiveusLuna> I'd like a #fedora-xfce !
17:18:23 * dcr226 thinks gnome3 bugz possibly belong in -qa, but general gnome3 stuff belongs in #fedora
17:18:24 <NiveusLuna> I thought #fedora was the gnome channel. XD
17:18:37 <Sonar_Gal> EvilBob, not sure what is going on that week
17:18:52 <Sonar_Gal> Kids get done school the week before and Shana hasgraduation
17:18:56 <nirik> #fedora should be the general fedora channel... we should try and answer, and if we can't, we refer to where they can get more info.
17:19:02 <EvilBob> I would quite enjoy moving all "GUI or Desktop" questions out of #fedora...
17:19:07 <nirik> also, for gnome3 stuff, we might point people to: https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet
17:19:11 <dcr226> EvilBob, not pracitcal
17:19:21 <dcr226> erk, ignore the spelling error
17:19:27 <EvilBob> dcr226: So
17:19:30 <dcr226> :-)
17:19:34 <nirik> I suppose we could make a xfce channel, but it seems like fragmentation to me. I'm happy to answer Xfce stuff in #fedora.
17:19:34 <EvilBob> dcr226: I would still enjoy it
17:19:35 <EvilBob> ;)
17:19:44 <DiscordianUK> For most people gnome{3} is gonna be all they know of Fedora
17:19:56 <vwbusguy> nirik, It hink we have anuff XFCE users in #Fedora
17:19:59 <vwbusguy> *think
17:20:08 <vwbusguy> nirik, -KDE is more than just support
17:20:15 <dcr226> vwbusguy, no harm in firing up a channel, see what happens I guess
17:20:21 <EvilBob> Yeah no need for extra channels IMO other than for development groups as in the #fedora-kde example
17:20:56 <EvilBob> I agree with vwbusguy, someone might want to get some paper to write this down
17:20:58 <EvilBob> ;)
17:21:28 <EvilBob> Anything else?
17:21:31 * dcr226 points at the bot
17:21:44 <dcr226> yeah, we need to resolve the cut off point for G3 questions imo
17:22:11 <EvilBob> If you can't answer, don't
17:22:15 <dcr226> I don't want to be helping someone out, for someone else to hop in an point them at -qa
17:22:20 <vwbusguy> frnkly they probably won't get good support for g3 in #Fedora since not many people are using it right now
17:22:27 <dcr226> vwbusguy, assumptions
17:22:38 <vwbusguy> I don't see the harm in them asking but they might just not get an answer
17:22:38 <EvilBob> there is no need to be bashing the hell out of it and pointing at LXDE or XFCE
17:22:42 <nirik> if you know, answer. If you don't, refer them to where they can hopefully get answers.
17:22:44 <dcr226> vwbusguy, if we're going to keep supporting fedora as an OS, then we need to understand G3
17:22:52 <vwbusguy> dcr226, have at it
17:23:07 <DiscordianUK> and therein lies the rub
17:23:14 <dcr226> vwbusguy, have at it?
17:23:14 <vwbusguy> g3 doesn't run on my Fedora OS
17:23:32 <vwbusguy> if it does yours then I don't care if you support it
17:23:32 <nirik> dcr226: well, we can't know everything about everything. ;) Do the best we can...
17:23:35 <EvilBob> vwbusguy: and that is your choice
17:23:42 <Sonar_Gal> if you don't want to support it then let us know so we can find others who will(helpers/ops)
17:23:57 * dcr226 possibly didn't explain himself well enough, but isn't loosing sleep over the point :-)
17:24:13 <EvilBob> it's just not worth bashing the software and developers over
17:24:26 <Sonar_Gal> I agree
17:24:32 <vwbusguy> I don't support Gnome3 for the same reason I don't support OpenLDAP.  I haven't used it enough nor had a practical enough reason to use it
17:24:42 <DiscordianUK> Questions like how do I make g3 fall back are problems
17:25:03 <dcr226> vwbusguy, right. but over the next 2 months or so, many users on #fedora will be using Gnome3, because its the default they downloaded
17:25:05 <EvilBob> DiscordianUK: questions that we need to find documented answers to
17:25:16 <DiscordianUK> As no one has used it much outside the gnome folks and/or our -qa
17:25:38 <vwbusguy> anything that is bug related like things crashing should go to -QA.  Otherwise I don't care if it's in #Fedora, but if someone is not getting helped, maybe we can recommend they go to -QA
17:25:47 <EvilBob> THe coming month and more will change that, our experience with it and our ability to answer questions
17:25:49 <dcr226> vwbusguy, perfect :-)
17:26:02 <EvilBob> vwbusguy: Well said
17:26:16 <dcr226> and I think that should be the SIG's stance on it, personally
17:26:20 * EvilBob slaps Sonar_Gal's hand for trying to write that down
17:26:24 <EvilBob> ;)
17:26:33 * Sonar_Gal trips EvilBob
17:26:47 <EvilBob> OK, I think we about covered that
17:26:47 <dcr226> watch his back! , its like a dried leaf
17:26:57 <EvilBob> anything more?
17:27:10 <dcr226> bacon for the log
17:27:18 <Sonar_Gal> :)
17:27:21 <EvilBob> if not I will shut it down in 5 minutes
17:27:36 <dcr226> can someone add me to the access list on -unreg, I needed it in the week
17:27:39 <dcr226> +?
17:27:45 <EvilBob> Thanks for coming and for the input
17:27:47 <dcr226> or at least to the bot
17:27:55 <dcr226> oi, not yet
17:27:58 <dcr226> :-)
17:28:48 <dcr226> meh, nvm - easy fixed outside of the meeting :-)
17:30:59 <EvilBob> Happy Easter to those that observe, see you next week.
17:31:01 <EvilBob> #endmeeting