17:00:29 <EvilBob> #startmeeting
17:00:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 28 17:00:29 2011 UTC.  The chair is EvilBob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:29 <EvilBob> #meetingname irc-support-sig
17:00:29 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
17:00:29 <EvilBob> #meetingtopic IRC Support SIG Meeting
17:00:33 <vwbusguy> oy
17:00:56 <EvilBob> Looks like our meeting might be a little longer than normal
17:00:58 <EvilBob> Feel free to reply to this with additional topics, or bring them up in the "Open Floor" section of the meeting.
17:01:05 * Sonar_Gal puts out the platter of bacon
17:01:08 <EvilBob> Who is here?
17:01:09 * nirik is around.
17:01:12 * N3LRX 
17:01:16 * dcr226 makes a peace sign
17:01:19 * Sonar_Gal 
17:01:27 * vwbusguy slowly sips his coffee
17:01:37 * DiscordianUK is here
17:01:39 <EvilBob> #topic Week in Review
17:01:39 <EvilBob> #link http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
17:02:36 <EvilBob> Only a couple kicks this week
17:02:48 <EvilBob> 3 by the bot, not sure on other
17:03:20 <EvilBob> Seemed pretty normal for just before a release with the beta out
17:03:41 <nirik> lots of new folks.
17:03:43 <EvilBob> any common questions we are seeing, other than OMG Gnome3 sucks
17:03:47 <dcr226> yeah, steep learning curve with f15
17:04:08 <dcr226> but this is fedora, is moves - so I guess is just a case of figuring out stuff like g3 and systemd
17:04:21 <EvilBob> dcr226: Yeah
17:04:30 * vwbusguy is happy and willing to help users migrate to XFCE and KDE ;-)
17:04:31 <nirik> sure, do the best we can as always.
17:04:32 <dcr226> nirik, loads of ubuntu migrants, pretty cool imo
17:04:39 <EvilBob> I installed the Beta this week, did not have a lot of time on it
17:05:08 <EvilBob> Anything major to add at this time?
17:05:13 <DiscordianUK> It seems people hate Unity and come here wanting to try Gnome 3
17:05:30 <dcr226> I actually think its pretty cool that (afaik) fedora is the first to add gnome3 (shortly followed by opensuse)....pioneering stuff imho :-)
17:05:56 <EvilBob> OK moving on?
17:06:01 <nirik> sure, move on.
17:06:04 <dcr226> hit it
17:06:05 <EvilBob> #topic Feedback Tickets
17:06:05 <EvilBob> #link https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1
17:06:05 <EvilBob> Four tickets open and One that we forgot to close last week.
17:06:05 <vwbusguy> gnome-smell has been in Fedora for a couple of releases actually
17:06:19 <EvilBob> #link https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/43
17:06:34 <EvilBob> Ticket 43 was last week actually we forgot to close it
17:06:52 <nirik> ah, ok.
17:07:01 <EvilBob> Good Job fenrus02
17:07:05 <dcr226> well, fenrus02++ regardless
17:07:25 <EvilBob> Ticket 44 was reviewed and closed before the last meeting
17:07:27 <EvilBob> #link https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/45
17:08:10 <EvilBob> Ticket 45, User was unhappy about a ban for being off topic
17:08:13 <DiscordianUK> I did the ban, I may have over-reacted however he was trolling
17:08:38 <EvilBob> DiscordianUK and I talked about it and IMO it is resolved
17:08:46 <DiscordianUK> We've seen a few people come in recently about CentOS issues
17:09:13 <EvilBob> I think maybe we should relax a little on the off topic stuff, sure if it is another distro, ask them to take it elsewhere
17:09:26 <EvilBob> but give them plenty of rope
17:09:32 <Sonar_Gal> +1
17:09:34 <dcr226> perhaps off-topic stuff in open-floor?
17:09:44 * dcr226 worries about drudging old issues up
17:10:00 <dcr226> as in; the subject "off topic on #fedora"
17:10:03 <nirik> if the channel is not otherwise busy, and they aren't being disruptive, I think we should be much more open to off topic
17:10:09 <EvilBob> #link https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/46
17:10:26 <Sonar_Gal> nirik, I totally agree
17:10:28 <nirik> DiscordianUK: BTW, the bans didn't get removed right somehow. I did remove them for ticket 45 the other day.
17:10:29 <EvilBob> Kudos to fenrus02 and nirik
17:10:47 * Sonar_Gal ^5's nirik and fenrus02
17:10:54 <DiscordianUK> Hmmm
17:11:16 <EvilBob> #link https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/47
17:11:18 <EvilBob> Unnecessary abruptness amidst general helpfulness.
17:11:33 <EvilBob> THis ticket is a double edged sword IMO
17:12:03 <EvilBob> They were happy they got help but complained about something else
17:12:22 <EvilBob> "fenrus02 was being mildly rude, which came as a surprise given the generally friendly nature of the channel. I was asked to leave feedback. "
17:12:37 <EvilBob> So the channel is friendly, nice to hear that.
17:12:58 <DiscordianUK> the OP insisted on going into the details of rpm on CentOS
17:13:13 <Sonar_Gal> Yeah but there are days when all of us are rude and those are the days we need to step back and let others help more
17:13:17 <EvilBob> In the end the user seems a bit rude himself
17:13:58 <EvilBob> In his ticket he also lied and made a threat to take his ball and go home... not sure what we can do in this situation
17:14:01 <vwbusguy> even if a user is a bit rude, it is better if we can defuse the situation
17:14:09 <EvilBob> vwbusguy: +1
17:14:13 <nirik> agreed.
17:14:25 <Sonar_Gal> vwbusguy, +1
17:14:39 <EvilBob> fenrus02: the user would like you to get a psych exam
17:14:47 <dcr226> +1 to that
17:14:51 <EvilBob> I don't think that falls on our shoulders
17:14:54 <Sonar_Gal> haha  you all need one then
17:15:18 <EvilBob> Any input on this?
17:15:25 <DoctorDcr226> ready when you are fenrus02
17:15:36 <DoctorDcr226> ;-)
17:16:07 <EvilBob> I am happy to see that the user was quieted as per our SOP
17:16:49 <EvilBob> If you are having a bad day or don't have the time to deal with the question... excuse yourself, that is what I do anyhow
17:16:56 <EvilBob> or I try to anyhow
17:17:49 <EvilBob> I am happy to see we are getting tickets, good and not so good
17:18:02 <EvilBob> it gives us something to talk about
17:18:14 <dcr226> yeah, feedback works. in this case, nothing to do imho....move on ;-)
17:18:17 <EvilBob> Anything on tickets in general?
17:18:59 <EvilBob> fenrus02 got 2 good tickets and one bad, so it's a win for the Week
17:19:26 <EvilBob> DiscordianUK got one bad but admits that he was a bit on edge for the day
17:19:39 <EvilBob> so overall a good feedback week
17:19:42 <EvilBob> #topic Open Floor
17:19:42 <EvilBob> Does anyone have anything to add?
17:19:57 * fenrus02 meanders in extremely late and reviews
17:20:14 * Sonar_Gal smacks fenrus02 for being late
17:20:14 <dcr226> fenrus02, the evaluation offer is still there...as always ;-)
17:20:15 <EvilBob> fenrus02: we spanked you and patted you on the back
17:20:49 <dcr226> We discussed ages ago about off-topic discussion on #fedora, about making the channel more friendly by allowing it to take place, provided it wasn't disruptive. I think we should echo that again now
17:21:01 <vwbusguy> dcr226, +1
17:21:10 <EvilBob> dcr226: +1
17:21:10 * nirik gets back, had to step away for a few.
17:21:14 <nirik> yeah, +1 here too.
17:21:24 <Sonar_Gal> +1
17:21:25 <nirik> it gives the channel more personality and aliveness.
17:21:33 <vwbusguy> #Fedora has always beena  little social, so long as it doesn't get offensive or distract from users getting support, it doesn't bother me
17:21:45 <Southern_Gentlem> +1 vwbusguy
17:21:53 * fenrus02 sends dcr226 the shrink bill
17:22:02 <Sonar_Gal> yeah #fedora has gotten very strict in the past few years
17:22:04 <EvilBob> Real Soon the location of FUDcon announcement is coming, we should once that happens remember to mention it to users just in case they are interested.
17:22:11 <dcr226> imho, anything that remotely links the topic to epel *is* indeed topic for #fedora, as its us guys that maintain and contribute toward epel
17:22:30 <EvilBob> Isn't there an #EPEL channel?
17:22:34 <vwbusguy> yes
17:22:40 <vwbusguy> #Fedora-EPEL
17:22:40 <dcr226> most of my packages (although not a massive number) are packaged for epel anyway
17:22:41 <fenrus02> EvilBob, so long as it wasnt you doing the spanking. that's just not my type.
17:22:46 <dcr226> is there? oh, cool
17:22:48 * dcr226 joins
17:22:52 <nirik> it
17:22:53 <dcr226> cancel the last bit if you want then
17:22:55 <nirik> 's #epel
17:22:57 <DiscordianUK> There are also #centos and #rhel
17:23:01 <vwbusguy> nirik, ah
17:23:28 <nirik> We should point folks to where they can get help, but if the channel is idle and they aren't being disruptive...
17:23:44 <Southern_Gentlem> myself EPEL is another subproject of Fedora so i dont see it needs to be in our topic
17:23:49 <EvilBob> EPEL questions IMO should go there just so we are not dealing with the "old and antique" bits that make up EL releases
17:24:09 <fenrus02> relatively, el6 is not nearly as crusty as say, el4
17:24:12 <fenrus02> yet both are alive
17:24:53 <EvilBob> As always, if you don't want to deal with something, it does not mean you speak for everyone
17:25:12 <Khaytsus> Ahem.  Missed the time.
17:25:13 <EvilBob> if that was the case I would ask for ops and kick on the mention of ATi and/or AMD
17:25:14 <dcr226> Southern_Gentlem, I don't mind answering epel questions. I personally think its on-topic because afaik its only fedora contributors/packagers that maintain it
17:25:15 <EvilBob> ;)
17:25:39 * fenrus02 notes he was not last in the door and directs the frypan accordingly
17:25:44 <nirik> I'll also note that some off topic goes on because people fuel it. ;)
17:26:00 <dcr226> nirik, totally
17:26:05 <dcr226> its a fine line
17:26:11 <EvilBob> nirik: Very true, many times if we just shut up about things... they go away
17:26:20 <nirik> ie, someone asks a centos question, people point them to #centos, then people keep telling them to take it there, and such, when if they just stopped the person would go take it there anyhow. ;)
17:26:40 <dcr226> "gently guide back on topic" as opposed to "mute at the slightest hint of off-topic" imo
17:27:01 <EvilBob> Very much so when the topic is dead for 5 minutes and gets brought back up by one of us then the op gets pissed because it didn't die
17:27:22 <EvilBob> Just does not make sense to me
17:27:37 <EvilBob> any other ideas for open floor?
17:27:59 <dcr226> don't forget about 1st of May :-)
17:28:15 <fenrus02> right!  do not forget that day.
17:28:18 <dcr226> bot-day :-)
17:28:24 <DiscordianUK> oh
17:28:33 <EvilBob> Yeah may 1 is coming, so we will be letting the bot run wild in -social
17:28:36 <fenrus02> dcr226, oh, that too i suppose
17:28:44 <Sonar_Gal> yeah Bot-May-Day
17:28:59 * dcr226 tunes up gamesbot for the event
17:29:07 <Khaytsus> o_O
17:29:22 <Khaytsus> Bot day?
17:29:23 <EvilBob> anything more to add?
17:29:35 <vwbusguy> all bots allowed in -social on Sunday?
17:29:46 <fenrus02> dcr226, can it be setup to auto-excuse itself at ~midnight?
17:29:53 <Sonar_Gal> Khaytsus, yes it was decided the 1st of the Month we would play with the Bot in -social
17:30:01 <dcr226> oh, incidentally on that point - if anyone needs +o on any of my bots to shut them up, in the event of someone flooding the channel - let me know
17:30:15 * vwbusguy will bring his BusBots
17:30:22 <dcr226> fenrus02, yeah, scheduler add part
17:30:24 <Sonar_Gal> dcr226, I have +o on gamesbot?
17:30:29 <dcr226> Sonar_Gal, you do
17:30:33 <dcr226> so does EvilBob
17:30:35 <Sonar_Gal> I thought so
17:30:40 <dcr226> so does Southern_Gentlem
17:30:51 <dcr226> and nb and vwbusguy I think
17:32:40 <EvilBob> if a bot is overly disruptive we just remove it for a while I guess
17:32:57 * nirik nods
17:32:59 <EvilBob> last call for anything else
17:33:11 <dcr226> probably the easiest thing would be to get fedbot to quiet it
17:33:17 <dcr226> if it gets annoying
17:33:32 <dcr226> will give 15 minutes for everything to calm down
17:33:54 <EvilBob> shall we put a bow on this?
17:34:08 <Sonar_Gal> +1 EvilBob
17:34:09 * dcr226 offers up red ribbon
17:34:20 <EvilBob> Oh, sorry about sending out the agenda late
17:34:37 <EvilBob> Huge thanks to dcr226 for reminding me what day it was
17:35:05 <EvilBob> and take it easy on dcr226 his son is ill, so keep them in your thoughts
17:35:14 <dcr226> EvilBob, thanks :-)
17:35:16 <DiscordianUK> +1
17:35:25 <EvilBob> #endmeeting