17:06:50 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2011-05-19)
17:06:50 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu May 19 17:06:50 2011 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:06:50 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:06:50 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig
17:06:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
17:06:50 <nirik> #topic init process
17:07:01 <nirik> #chair EvilBob-Vote4Me
17:07:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: EvilBob-Vote4Me nirik
17:07:26 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Hi ALl
17:07:37 <DiscordianUK> evening
17:07:42 <nirik> bacon
17:08:19 * dcr226 is late
17:08:26 <nirik> thats ok, all of us are. ;)
17:08:57 <dcr226> ah. :-)
17:09:09 <nirik> lets go ahead and dive in I guess...
17:09:12 <nirik> #topic Week in review
17:09:13 <nirik> http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
17:09:20 <nirik> first our normal week in review.
17:09:28 <nirik> pretty busy this week...
17:09:35 <nirik> lots of folks jumping on f15 pre
17:09:37 * Khaytsus 
17:09:48 <nirik> anything else anyone would like to shout out from the last week?
17:10:04 <DiscordianUK> yeah it'll be busier next week
17:10:08 <nirik> For people having issues with gnome3, I've been pointing them to:
17:10:12 <nirik> nirik: Take a look at https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet and install 'gnome-tweak-tool' and see if they provide the feature or item you are looking for.
17:10:42 * DiscordianUK notes
17:10:45 <IamTrying> Can i put my hands in without any agenda?
17:10:51 <nirik> also, people who installed 15 and have stuff from updates-testing may run into dep issues and have to either enable updates-testing again, or distro sync to stable updates.
17:11:10 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> IamTrying: There is an openfloor at the end
17:11:11 <nirik> IamTrying: if it's related to week in review, go for it... we do also have a open floor at the end for new topics.
17:11:21 <IamTrying> EvilBob-Vote4Me, ok
17:12:01 <nirik> anything else for week in review? or shall we move on to tickets?
17:12:13 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Ya'ay tickets!
17:12:19 <nirik> #topic feedback tickets
17:12:19 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1
17:12:25 <dcr226> singular I think
17:12:32 <nirik> no, theres two. ;)
17:12:38 <dcr226> nirik++
17:12:50 <nirik> .title https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/51
17:12:51 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Ticket 49 was this week also
17:12:52 <zodbot> nirik: #51 (nirik - hats off) - irc-support-sig - Trac
17:13:06 <nirik> kudos to... me. :) moving on...
17:13:10 <nirik> .title https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/50
17:13:12 <zodbot> nirik: #50 (Silenced and insulted within minutes for a polite disagreement.) - irc-support-sig - Trac
17:13:23 * nirik sees that erodgers is here.
17:13:28 <erodgers> Yes.
17:13:47 <dcr226> I think alot of this one was caused by me firing off the bot by accident
17:13:48 <nirik> FWIW, I think that was handled poorly and I hope we can learn from it.
17:14:02 <dcr226> well, not by accident - but you know what I mean (in the ticket)
17:14:25 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> A lot of it was human behavior
17:14:33 <nirik> I think there was another party that should have been silenced first (or at least told to knock it off).
17:14:47 * dcr226 wasn't going to silence anyone ftr
17:14:56 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Quote of the day: We are not young enough... to know everything.
17:15:01 * nirik wasn't active at the time. ;(
17:15:04 <dcr226> but yeah, I tend to agree
17:15:12 <dcr226> EvilBob-Vote4Me, speak for yourself ;-)
17:15:34 <dcr226> erodgers, anything you would like to see come out of this ticket from here?
17:15:39 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> New User, KNows it all, is set in their ways, is going to save us all from damnation
17:15:57 <dcr226> erodgers, apart from me, not firing the bot to try and fix stuff that isn't broken ;-)
17:16:07 <erodgers> Evil: I hope I didn't come off that way!
17:16:08 <nirik> I'd like to appologize (even tho I wasn't involved).
17:16:16 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: You did
17:16:38 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: And I have reviewed the log at least 5 times and I still see it the same
17:16:40 <erodgers> I hope my attachment to the ticket clears up the misunderstandings?
17:16:57 <dcr226> yeah, I appologized in the ticket, I didn't think it was getting out of hand personally.....was at boiling point though
17:17:04 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: But I am a bit jaded I guess is the term when it comes to this stort of thing.
17:17:59 <nirik> I think others were contributing to the 'heat up' and it's our job to diffuse things and get everyone back on track, so we failed.
17:18:13 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: My personal opinion is, Hey it's IRC, it takes a thick skin to survive. On the otherhand we do want the channel to be nicer.
17:18:21 <DiscordianUK> the traditional fedora way has been su -
17:18:36 * dcr226 doesn't want to go into the technicalities
17:18:46 * dcr226 ....again :-)
17:19:08 <DiscordianUK> but i think it was just an accident
17:19:15 * nirik notes he also thinks 'warning shot' 'opping up', etc don't do anything to reduce heat... just make it worse.
17:19:28 <erodgers> Discordian: I agree, but that doesn't invalidate the majority of distros out there that don't, including the document he was refering to..  Moot, but I understand your point.
17:19:33 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: The channel has lost it's "friendlyness" by that I mean the ability to make friends. That made it more palatable to many. SO we are left with the raw technical at this point.
17:19:52 <dcr226> erodgers, I'm happy to discuss the two with you on -social if you like
17:20:02 <erodgers> I am there, thank you.
17:20:03 <nirik> EvilBob-Vote4Me: I think some of that has come back of late... with us not being so 'stay on topic'
17:20:06 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> less palatable
17:20:28 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> nirik: tht was my next point
17:20:29 <erodgers> I probably should keep my nose out of fedora anyway.  :)
17:20:36 <dcr226> nawww
17:20:49 <dcr226> join in and enjoy :-)
17:20:49 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: well fine then, take your ball and go home.
17:20:51 <DiscordianUK> the adding a user to the wheel group option is new in f15
17:21:08 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: We would rather see you stay and help out
17:21:12 <nirik> erodgers: I hope you stay and help out... sorry your first experence was this way. ;(
17:21:28 <erodgers> I will try to lurk for an extended period first, thank you.
17:21:31 <dcr226> +1, stick around
17:21:38 <DiscordianUK> however that to -social
17:21:40 <dcr226> can we close this ticket?
17:21:42 <DiscordianUK> +1
17:21:47 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: you clearly have the technical ability, "Ve Jus Need to toughen yu up"
17:21:51 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> ;)
17:22:08 <dcr226> yar, -social for hazing....I mean, socializing
17:22:16 <dcr226> :-)
17:22:16 <erodgers> Thank you all.
17:22:45 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: You have had a less than perfect experience will give you a better view as a helper
17:23:00 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Just my $1.25 anyhow
17:23:11 <erodgers> Agreed.
17:23:20 <nirik> ok, shall we go on, or anything more to note/discuss/change/improve here?
17:23:21 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: and thank you for filing the ticket
17:23:35 <nirik> yes, it's very good to see these things and try and learn from them.
17:23:38 <nirik> feedback is great.
17:23:39 * dcr226 thinks close and move on, if erodgers is happy
17:23:54 <nirik> even if it's somewhere we failed. ;)
17:23:58 <erodgers> XD
17:24:44 <nirik> would someone like to close tickets this week?
17:25:04 * dcr226 points at EvilBob-Vote4Me for volunteering a while ago
17:25:09 <dcr226> just saying
17:25:19 <nirik> #topic Fedora 15 release next week
17:25:24 <nirik> so, release is tuesday.
17:25:31 <nirik> it's likely to be busy next week after that.
17:25:39 <nirik> Hopefully folks will be around and able to help.
17:25:48 <nirik> any howto's, guides., etc we need to update?
17:26:15 <dcr226> there was a couple of wiki pages in progress...any news on those?
17:26:15 <Khaytsus> I think we should always review guides before a new release.  If nothing else update the release number
17:26:22 <dcr226> grub and migrating from ubuntu I think
17:26:33 <Khaytsus> But always verify the previous suggestions are still valid and still work.
17:26:35 <nirik> Khaytsus: yeah, please do.
17:27:08 <DiscordianUK> i'm working on a grub one
17:27:19 <nirik> DiscordianUK: cool. Let us know when it's ready for review.
17:27:26 <Sysi> i was starting to write "ubuntu → fedora" guide but then i noticed all needed info is already in the unofficial faq, woul that article still be needed?
17:27:28 <Khaytsus> Anywhere that explains the network device changes we can point users to?
17:27:38 <Khaytsus> Sysi: Unofficial faq?
17:27:50 <Sysi> http://www.fedorafaq.org/
17:27:52 <Khaytsus> meh
17:27:57 <dcr226> secretz
17:28:08 <nirik> Khaytsus: there's a feature page I think.
17:28:13 <Khaytsus> That guide any less nonsense than it used to be?
17:28:20 <Southern_Gentlem> Sysi,  that faq also does alot of things it shouldnt
17:28:29 <Khaytsus> I will _not_ point people to that page.
17:28:32 <nirik> Sysi: ah ha... he finally made it generic.
17:28:34 <Sysi> for the parts i checked it seemed legit
17:28:41 <nirik> I think he cleaned it up
17:28:53 <nirik> we were not recommending it, and he fixed the parts we didn't like. ;)
17:28:54 <Khaytsus> Could be, it's been a while sinve I've looked at it.
17:29:04 <nirik> but I haven't looked recently
17:29:32 <nirik> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ConsistentNetworkDeviceNaming
17:29:40 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Fedora Faq is sub-optimal, he takes/assumes full copyright of all content
17:30:08 <Khaytsus> nirik: k, yeah, looking.  Although a quick read tells me that's "if you have multiple on-board nics" not a global change.
17:30:29 <DiscordianUK> and i686 is pentium pro and after not the original pentium
17:30:59 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Plus he is always behind on updating his pages, example Fedora Unity is starting to get pages updated already for F15
17:31:57 <Khaytsus> So all that said, Sysi, I think a page is still useful.  You could use his page, and other pages, for information gathering, but the guide overall still makes sense to write and put on fedoraproject's wiki.
17:32:13 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Khaytsus: +1
17:32:17 <Sysi> so i should make other page.. i'm not totally sure what i should put there, basic stuff of yum and propietary goop?
17:32:42 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Sysi: Content is welcome on http://fedorasolved.org/
17:32:52 <nirik> well, I think what we were wanting was a 'here's how you do this on fedora if you are using to doing this on ubuntu'
17:33:04 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Sysi: if it has "forbidden items" it should not go on the wiki
17:33:06 <Khaytsus> Sysi: We can discuss topics to put in there outside of this meeting
17:33:07 <nirik> so, a 'apt-get install foo' -> 'yum install foo'
17:33:13 <nirik> yeah, we can take it out of band.
17:33:52 <Sysi> or you can point out missing stuff after i've done first version of it
17:34:04 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Sysi: #fedora-unity if you want we can help you sort out the best place for it with out causing issues for Fedora Project
17:34:10 <nirik> thanks for working on these Sysi and DiscordianUK. ;)
17:34:20 <leigh123linux> nirik: You mean something like this http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=package-management
17:34:36 <nirik> yeah, nice. ;)
17:35:13 <nirik> ok, anything more for f15 release stuff?
17:35:21 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> !
17:35:56 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> I urge all of us to try and use the Gnome Shell to get a feel for it, even if we don't like it others are going to need support
17:36:18 <mosburn> ssh hcdist@0
17:36:18 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Support is what we do
17:36:20 <DiscordianUK> uggh
17:36:35 <dcr226> mosburn, close
17:36:45 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> DiscordianUK: Yeah we know, I'll exempt you from the suggestion just to save my sanity
17:36:48 <dcr226> EvilBob-Vote4Me, I tend to agree
17:37:00 * nirik played with it... not gonna use it day to day tho. ;)
17:37:03 <dcr226> on the first bit :-), your sanity has already gone
17:37:05 <Sysi> bot-factoid for sites telling about customizing gnome-shell maybe?
17:37:16 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> nirik: Exactly what I am suggesting
17:37:17 <nirik> Sysi: Take a look at https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet and install 'gnome-tweak-tool' and see if they provide the feature or item you are looking for.
17:37:20 <DiscordianUK> i've used it enough
17:37:24 <zcat> EvilBob-Vote4Me, gnome3 only on the kid's laptop, since all it does is play videos. :)
17:37:45 <Sysi> nirik: i like my gnome-shell pretty much as it is, but people will ask about it
17:37:49 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> zcat: I have a fair amount of hardware that will not run it...
17:38:10 <Khaytsus> I need to get F15 on a usb stick..  a VM doesn't do it justice with all of the eye candy requirements of Gnome Shell 3
17:38:11 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> That's all I have that needs to be in the meeting
17:38:25 <nirik> Sysi: if you know other/better sites, please let us know.
17:38:31 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
17:38:38 <nirik> IamTrying: you had something for open floor?
17:38:41 <Khaytsus> nirik: So gnome-tweak-tool seems to be the silver bullet for some things, is it preinstalled or something to install?  I'd have to play with it to see I guess.
17:38:53 <dcr226> IamTrying, did you have something?
17:38:54 <nirik> it's not preinstalled.
17:39:06 <DiscordianUK> has to be installed
17:39:16 <Khaytsus> k..  I need to set up a live and play with this..
17:39:27 <Khaytsus> Assuming it'll work on i915 :)
17:39:43 <dcr226> Khaytsus, yeah it does
17:39:49 <zcat> also some useful gnome3-shell-extensions-* to recommend, for working around gnome3's too-simpleness
17:39:58 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Ihave nothing for OPen FLoor other than a note that my surgery has been postponed so I will be around for release week
17:40:03 <dcr226> !
17:40:13 <zcat> EvilBob-Vote4Me, what about this Vote4Me stuff? stump! :)
17:40:14 <dcr226> fedbot's new repo functions?
17:40:16 <Khaytsus> dcr226: Couldn't figure out how to get it to work "right" in vmware, went into downgraded mode or whatnot.
17:40:23 <dcr226> Khaytsus, vmware
17:40:35 <nirik> dcr226: oh yeah, you want to note those real quick?
17:40:37 <dcr226> :-)
17:40:41 <IamTrying> nirik, dcr226 nevermind i had this dream for long time but i dont know how all will welcome this: https://gist.github.com/981305
17:40:42 <DiscordianUK> doesn't work in vbox either
17:40:46 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Get out and get educated for the coming elections
17:41:04 <dcr226> yeah, fedbot has a couple of new repo-querying functions. rversion and rprovides
17:41:08 * dcr226 demonstrated
17:41:16 <dcr226> @rversion 14 x32 yum
17:41:22 <nirik> DiscordianUK: it does now. ;)
17:41:25 <leigh123linux> Gnome3 could do with a subpixel font guide smileglasses
17:41:27 <dcr226> the cache will build, but the more times its used, the less time it will take
17:41:29 <fedbot> dcr226: yum-3.2.28-5.fc14.noarch Fedora 14 - i386|size 0MB|Date Tue Oct  5 12:00:00 2010
17:41:31 <fedbot> dcr226: yum-3.2.28-6.fc14.noarch Fedora 14 - i386 - Updates|size 0MB|Date Wed May 11 12:00:00 2011
17:41:36 <dcr226> and..
17:41:45 <dcr226> @rpovides 14 /bin/ls
17:41:50 <DiscordianUK> oh that's changed?
17:42:08 <dcr226> yeah, a little. bodhi coming to a bot near you soon
17:42:09 <leigh123linux> DiscordianUK: http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=263146#
17:42:10 <nirik> IamTrying: I think those are great ideas... might be something you could suggest to the marketing folks? or perhaps fedora weekly news?
17:42:20 <dcr226> @rprovides 14 /bin/ls
17:42:22 <dcr226> jeez
17:42:28 <dcr226> @rprovides 14 /bin/ls
17:42:34 <dcr226> lol
17:42:35 <zcat> live demo fail.
17:42:42 <Sysi> like windows!
17:42:43 <fedbot> dcr226: Fedora release versions must be a number
17:42:43 <nirik> it's pulling down cache files.
17:42:44 <fedbot> dcr226: Fedora release versions must be a number
17:42:55 <IamTrying> nirik, ok
17:43:12 <nirik> IamTrying: I think there was a video podcast a while back, not sure what happend to it.
17:43:19 <Khaytsus> No matter how much I try, I can't seem to ever get metadata purging and yum update on the right schedule so I don't have to wati for files to download when I use yum...
17:43:36 <dcr226> Khaytsus, yum makecache
17:43:41 <dcr226> cron it baby
17:44:14 <Khaytsus> dcr226: Have, then I eventually wind up with yum stuck around in cron.. :/
17:44:36 <nirik> anyhow, anything else? or shall we call this a meeting?
17:44:48 <jpuellma> Is there a fedbot user guide out theer that I have not seen? List of commands, with proper syntax?
17:44:48 <dcr226> oh... bacon
17:44:59 <dcr226> (for the log)
17:45:06 <Southern_Gentlem> jpuellma,  nope
17:45:09 <Khaytsus> .moarbacon #fedora-meeting
17:45:11 <zodbot> #fedora-meeting, here, have some more bacon
17:45:16 <nirik> jpuellma: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedbot
17:45:21 <nirik> but it probibly needs updating.
17:45:57 * nirik will close out the meeting in a minute if nothing else comes along.
17:45:59 * dcr226 volunteers
17:46:13 <nirik> cool. ;)
17:46:19 <nirik> Thanks for coming everyone!
17:46:26 <nirik> #endmeeting