18:00:18 #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2013-05-16) 18:00:18 Meeting started Thu May 16 18:00:18 2013 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:18 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:19 #meetingname irc-support-sig 18:00:19 #topic init process 18:00:19 The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig' 18:00:28 who all is around for an irc support sig meeting? 18:00:37 * N3LRX is here. 18:00:46 * EvilBob 18:02:07 Not sure what it is, but it seemed interesting, so... here? :D 18:02:10 ok, I guess lets go ahead and dive on in. 18:02:20 #topic Week in review 18:02:38 Apsu`: we are the group of folks that work to improve support in #fedora... :) 18:02:51 anyone have items for week in review? common bugs or issues we are seeing more of? 18:02:57 Assumed as much :) 18:03:22 I'm here, just watching :o) (about ticket 148 if it will be discussed here) 18:03:45 I've nothing for the week in review 18:04:36 ok, moving on to tickets then. 18:04:39 #topic ticket #146 [Complaints about an irc OP] slighting ban on #fedora from fenrus02 18:04:53 https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/146 18:05:08 I added my thoughts there a while ago. 18:05:37 The only thing I think we might look at: should we change the 'quiet' message to list the time so people freak out less? 18:05:49 +1 18:06:06 That's a good idea. +1 18:06:09 the downside is that then some people might sit there waiting and start back in again in 15m... 18:06:12 nah, worked fine for the other 999999 people 18:06:21 but it might make them less paniced... 18:06:26 (some people) 18:06:44 That user deserved the mute, and later ban(IIRC there was a later ban) they were belligerent. 18:06:53 I dont even think this is a discussion point personally, wrong OS, antagonistic user, CLOSED-Grow-Up-A-Bit 18:06:57 (IMHO) :-) 18:07:12 Yeah, attention seeking IMO 18:07:38 right. 18:07:50 so, do we wish to adjust the quiet message? or just leave it? 18:08:17 * nirik is fine either way. 18:08:17 Fix it! 18:08:25 well, the message does say "you have been quieted for 15 minutes" doesn't it? 18:08:35 I don't think it lists the time. 18:08:38 * nirik checks 18:08:45 If they want to hang out for 15min and start up again... they deserve the resulting ban 18:08:50 oh, ok..my bad, it says "temporary" 18:09:01 yeah, perhaps "15 minutes" should be there 18:09:20 @config help supybot.plugins.Quiet.message 18:09:32 Heh..I actually made it a config item? lol 18:09:35 dcr226++ 18:09:36 :) 18:09:49 ok, so s/temporarily/15 minutes/ ? 18:09:52 +1 here 18:10:04 +1 18:10:15 You have been quieted in this channel for 15 minutes. Please read the FAQ in the channel topic and consider changing your approach and/or the behavior that is disrupting the channel. If you feel this action was in error, please file a ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ 18:10:18 +1 18:10:43 ok. 18:10:50 note that you can do quiet with longer values. 18:10:53 but we seldom do 18:11:11 @config supybot.plugins.Quiet.message You have been quieted in this channel for 15 minutes. Please read the FAQ in the channel topic and consider changing your approach and/or the behavior that is disrupting the channel. If you feel this action was in error, please file a ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ 18:11:17 ok, moving on then... 18:11:19 rock'n'roll 18:11:23 #topic ticket #145 Jordan_u helped me out with installing grub2 and saving my computer and data. 18:11:23 https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/145 18:11:35 kudos to jordan_u... 18:11:46 Yay Jordan_U 18:11:54 is there any way we should tell them that they got a kudo? 18:12:01 * nirik hasn't seen them on in a while. 18:12:06 nirik, @later tell? 18:12:24 ha. they are on now. nice. 18:12:27 :) 18:12:33 ok, next ticket? or anything else on this? 18:12:38 I just posted it to #fedora 18:12:48 thanks. 18:13:04 #topic ticket #147 Feedback should be much easier to give 18:13:06 https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/147 18:13:14 so, this is kinda a novel. ;) 18:13:43 I'm happy to look at simplifying the trac setup to be easier for people to use. 18:13:50 not sure how, but willing to look 18:13:52 just a suggestion... CLOSED-TLDR? 18:13:57 (kidding!) 18:14:11 lol 18:14:33 We've discussed a karma system for #fedora before a few times..I think we even trialled it 18:14:38 not sure it was awesome previously 18:14:42 it's active in fedbot, but not much used. 18:14:46 Trac does seem a little confusing the first time you use it. 18:14:51 @karma #fedora nirik 18:14:56 I don't think it's working properly 18:14:56 maybe some FAS feature about rating other users/contributors ("FAS") ? 18:14:58 @karma #fedora c 18:15:22 but they must be registered :S 18:15:38 EvilBob: it doesn't scrape, you have to specifially do: @evilbob++ or fedbot: EvilBob++ 18:15:48 also, ndroftheline isn't available, and I think their feedback would be important on this subject, so perhaps we can ask in the ticket *when* they are available to discuss? 18:16:05 dcr226: sure. and/or keep discussing in ticket until we have action items. 18:16:14 I'd go with that 18:16:29 nirik, fedora tagger has a scoring system. perhaps karma in irc should be integrated into a single score for the person for all his fedora contributions one way or the other 18:16:41 allow the ticket to mature in to a fine chianti before making final adjustments and rubber-stamping any actions 18:16:49 +1 for leaving the ticket open for discussion. 18:16:56 mether: it could be yeah. I worry about people misusing that tho... 18:17:09 yeah. possible 18:17:17 like "I hate nirik, I'll get 20 of my friends to -- anything they do" 18:17:41 or perhaps... we just do not do - karma. ;) 18:17:50 s/nirik/*Bob* 18:17:51 its also easy to abuse in the other direction 18:17:53 ;) 18:18:07 dcr226: true. 18:18:24 anyhow, I think easier feedback is good to a point. 18:18:28 we actually did this dance before we decided that the ticket system was the best option 18:18:35 Nut up and file a ticket if'n it's important to you 18:18:40 the ticket system is less than ideal...but its not spammy (on the most part) 18:18:43 anon or unverified feedback could lead to a bunch of junk 18:19:26 anyhow, I think we should continue to discuss in ticket and see if we can have some actions out of the discussion... 18:19:34 +1 yarrr 18:19:59 #topic ticket #148 Changes and improvements about #fedora and this report system. 18:20:06 https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/148 18:20:11 bitlord: this is yours. ;) 18:20:21 I know :D 18:20:25 * bitlord is happy \o/ 18:20:32 This ticket is a waste of our time 18:20:36 :( 18:20:45 you're evil Bob 18:20:46 so, I think on the quiet vs ban, I don't care as long as quiet works. 18:20:50 we would need to test it. 18:21:28 eh? seriously? we're getting worried about hurting people's feelings because they spam IRC? 18:21:34 I seem to recall it didn't work for some reason. 18:21:53 well, I don't know that I care about that, but the quiet seems like it would be 'cleaner' to me if it works. 18:21:58 bitlord: I'm semi-joking because you are here. 18:22:18 and the second part is already moved to infrastructure to fix. ;) 18:22:25 I don't know if the flood control plugin can be altered trivially to utilize quiet instead of /kick 18:22:32 dcr226, no, but they never come back, I think mostly about support, not much about feelings (there is no reason for that, about hurt feelings) 18:22:39 I think it can, but I can't recall if there was some reason that didn't work. 18:22:41 bitlord, evidence? 18:22:44 EvilBob, ok :-) 18:22:51 Kick is effective, most people's clients re-join on kick 18:22:52 every one I've seen booted for flooding, re-joins 18:23:11 dcr226, ok, not everyone, but most a lot of them, I don't have evidence. sorry 18:23:21 no, almost none 18:23:39 a +m would prevent them from continuing seamlessly where a kick does not 18:23:42 I'm not being belligerant, but seriously...I cannot remember anyone getting up tight over a kick for flooding 18:24:10 ok, I saw that few time, but If you think it should not change, I'm OK with that, I know how to use IRC and don't have any problems. 18:24:12 EvilBob, true 18:24:31 bitlord, bit early to back down yet, we've only 4 minutes in! ;-) 18:24:36 a +m that is too short in duration would allow the flood to continue with a throttled client 18:24:36 it may be that supybot doesn't have a handy set of functions for 'quiet' as thats a freenode thing. 18:24:39 s/we've/we're 18:25:00 kick, if the client has auto re-join is more effective. They can auto join after being kicked, but quiet would require a length of time so they will not be able to speak until x time has elapsed. 18:25:25 oh wait.. +q *is* better.. 18:25:35 My android client for example... maybe it's my bouncer... will throttle multiple sends to help prevent flooding 18:26:00 see, when you continue to post in a channel where you have been +q'd, the channel responds with "you cannot post, blah blah"...so they get to taste their own medicine for the remaining lines of the flood! :-) 18:26:11 yep. 18:26:16 :-) 18:26:22 in my case, sending 100 lines to the channel would result in repeated 30sec +m, or solved with a single kick 18:26:53 right, some clients might also dump pastes queued up when they got kicked. 18:27:06 It also would still allow all that flood to reach the channel causing disruption over and over again 18:27:09 in fact the change is just removing the kick right? 18:27:24 because +b and +q on a person in channel is just exactly the same. 18:27:41 All clients that I know of flush a flood when kicked 18:27:43 I think it's effective the way it is. Not perfect, but effective. 18:27:57 N3LRX: +1 18:28:17 More effective than a +b or +m 18:28:22 * nirik would be fine playing with it and see if removing the kick works any better for our needs, but I also am fine just leaving it. 18:28:56 I think the kick is the most effective solution we have 18:29:09 so Leave the kick 18:29:11 +1 18:29:18 +0 18:30:01 +1 18:30:02 If we plan to change it I would suggest extensive testing 18:30:10 HAHAHA 18:30:28 we could randomly kick people from -unreg, see if they get upset 18:30:32 ok, sounds like we leave it. If someone wants to do more testing and come back with that info we can revist. 18:30:41 "Now, did you prefer the kick..or the quiet?" 18:30:43 dcr226: flood is > 1 line. ;) 18:30:50 LOL 18:31:05 anyhow, anything further on this topic? or shall we move on? 18:31:09 dcr226: I already randomly kick and BAN people from -unreg... 18:31:15 EvilBob, and how do they like it? 18:31:20 nirik, rock'n'roll 18:31:24 DILLIGAF? 18:31:25 ;) 18:31:28 #topic ticket #149 Complaint about fenrus02 in your #fedora IRC channel 18:31:28 LOL 18:31:30 LOL!! 18:31:38 https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/149 18:31:48 so, I am not sure what provoked this user. 18:31:57 must have been bad: [ XXXXXX] Negative 18:32:01 I'd like to propose we ask them for details and revisit next week. 18:32:12 yeah, but they didn't mention any specific thing. 18:32:28 Close it, it's a drive by 18:32:37 right before that there was a user that fenrus02 exchanged a few questions with and they he said that he did not have time to help further. 18:32:44 I didn't see anything rude or offensive in that. 18:32:44 an actual waste of our time 18:32:53 +1 close it, asking them to re-open with any form of actual evidence other than "I don't like foo" 18:33:09 thats fine too. +1 18:33:21 +1 for close 18:33:23 also, I think we should publicly flog fenrus02 18:33:27 because...well its fun 18:33:29 The user that filed joined 1/2 way through someone getting help... made a snap judgment... 18:33:32 :) 18:33:34 lol 18:33:38 +1 close it 18:34:13 I also don't get the "I don't like foo, therefore your entire project and community is horrible and I will tell everyone to avoid it" for one foo? really? 18:34:21 but then people do that all the time sadly. 18:34:40 "I installed fedora, but I didn't like the default wallpaper, so I switched to slackware" 18:35:07 I do that with pubs 18:35:10 (wallpaper) 18:35:22 ha. 18:35:28 #topic Open Floor 18:35:35 any items for open floor? comments? suggestions? 18:35:55 or shall we just have dcr226 buy us all a drink at his pub now? ;) 18:35:58 ELECTIONS! 18:36:07 O_o 18:36:17 * dcr226 gets his hand in his pockets 18:36:19 rbergeron: Get well soon! 18:36:32 yeah, elections are coming up. Please do everyone vote! 18:36:34 oh wait...the wallpaper is crap in here, lets burn it to the ground and move to the next pub! 18:36:49 Promote the crap out of the elections 18:36:51 meeting from a pub? dcr226++ 18:36:57 lol 18:37:11 also FLOCK 18:37:24 ...but use protection 18:37:29 oh wait 18:37:34 That also 18:37:37 and... 18:37:38 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections 18:37:39 Remember people early detection of breast cancer is the closest thing we have to a cure. Guys, remind your Girl to check, Girls... check the girls! 18:37:49 http://flocktofedora.org/ 18:38:15 ok, thanks for coming everyone. 18:38:24 oh, would someone like to go close tickets? 18:38:29 otherwise I could do it later... 18:38:34 Oh, any hickups with moving fpaste to ? 18:38:46 anyone can close them? 18:38:58 fpaste.org is running sticky-notes now, I guess there will be a patch to put it back soon 18:39:12 EvilBob: not that I have seen. Please do report them if you see any tho 18:39:22 bitlord: yep. ;) 18:39:25 dcr226: ? 18:39:30 Just remembered that that happened this past week 18:39:32 fpaste is pointed to paste.fedoraproject.org 18:39:42 it's the same one. :) just different name 18:39:42 nirik, fpaste.org is running sticky notes...oh...right 18:39:52 * dcr226 didn't see the 301 18:39:58 carry on! :) 18:40:23 nirik, hm, interesting, any special procedure? 18:40:36 There's been one spammer so far, but I quashed them pretty quick. 18:40:58 bitlord: not really. Just add a comment "we discussed this in the 2013-05-16 meeting, thanks for your feedback" 18:40:59 nirik: I'll take the tickets tonight if you don't do it 18:41:07 ok, cool. 18:41:09 fpaste spammer? huh, I thought it had spam protection 18:41:21 but yeah, being a spam ninja is fun also 18:41:22 I'm going to the park and library now... 18:41:29 it does, this was link spam junk that got thru. it's blocked now. ;) 18:41:34 ah 18:41:35 anyhow, thanks for coming everyone. 18:41:38 #endmeeting