15:00:50 <stoneyj> #startmeeting IRC 2.1
15:00:50 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jun  6 15:00:50 2017 UTC.  The chair is stoneyj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:50 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc_2.1'
15:00:59 <stoneyj> #link agenda http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_2
15:01:08 <stoneyj> #topic Roll Call
15:01:17 <stoneyj> If you will be participating in this meeting, please #info your name and institution
15:01:26 <stoneyj> #info Stoney Jackson, Western New England University, POSSE Team Member
15:01:58 <darci> #info Darci Burdge, Nassau Community College, POSSE Team Member
15:02:00 <MScott> #info Michael Scott, Falmouth University
15:02:02 <MarkZ> #info Mark Zarb, Robert Gordon University
15:02:18 <stoneyj> welcome MScott!
15:02:21 <kkchahal> Kuljit Kaur Chahal, Guru Nanak DEv University
15:02:23 <MScott> Hi Mark :-)
15:02:23 <stoneyj> welcome MarkZ!
15:02:28 <MarkZ> Hey Michael :)
15:02:28 <stoneyj> welcome kkchahal!
15:02:40 <Deepti> #info Deepti Reddy, SIESGST, University of Mumbai
15:02:49 <stoneyj> welcome Deepti!
15:03:23 <stoneyj> anyone else?
15:03:33 <stoneyj> going once...
15:03:43 <stoneyj> going twice...
15:03:52 <stoneyj> sold!
15:03:57 <stoneyj> #topic Stage 1
15:04:03 <stoneyj> #link Stage 1 activities http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_1_Activities
15:04:09 <stoneyj> How is everyone doing on the POSSE stage 1 activities?
15:04:35 <Deepti> good
15:04:41 <stoneyj> What questions do folks have about POSSE stage 1 activities?
15:04:47 <MarkZ> Good! I was catching up - had a POSSE afternoon yesterday and I'm pretty much done with Part A.
15:04:48 <stoneyj> awesome Deepti! :)
15:04:52 <kkchahal> I am reading the literature related to FOSS. Along with working on the OpenMRS project.
15:04:59 <stoneyj> excellent MarkZ!
15:05:14 <stoneyj> great kkchahal!
15:05:19 <ajanovski> #info Vangel Ajanovski, Faculty of Computer Science and Engineering, Ss Cyril and Methodius University in Skopje, Macedonia
15:05:21 <stoneyj> progress, this is good
15:05:33 <MScott> all up to date on Part A and hvae moved onto Part B
15:05:34 <stoneyj> welcome ajanovski!
15:05:40 <ajanovski> hi everone
15:05:55 <stoneyj> that's good MScott!
15:06:01 <MarkZ> To be honest I can imagine spending months reading through all the linked materials and projects
15:06:16 <stoneyj> MarkZ:  Right... it's boundless
15:06:34 <stoneyj> MarkZ: that's why there are time bounds on each activity
15:06:36 <kkchahal> yes a lot of material..to read
15:07:12 <MScott> I am curious to hear what 'observations' people have been taking note of, with respect to the SugarLabs/Sahana Eden activity to post more detail onto the wiki; not sure what details to add to my page
15:07:16 <darci> Yes, I agree with stoneyj, try to limit your time for each, we really want you to get through them without feeling overwhelmed!
15:07:36 <MarkZ> i didn't mean it as a negative - i'm more in awe at the breadth of the activities
15:08:05 <stoneyj> MarkZ: yup... it's a life journey :)
15:08:42 <stoneyj> MScott: which activity are you talking about... link?
15:08:59 <ajanovski> MScott: you can check what I have working on my wiki page
15:09:40 <darci> MScott: For each topic, there are questions, you just need to provide some feedback on what you find.
15:09:52 <stoneyj> this activity? http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Intro_to_FOSS_Project_Anatomy_(Activity)
15:09:55 <MScott> ah, a table
15:10:10 <stoneyj> welcome Guest11878 (stephen)!
15:10:13 <MScott> okay, compare/contrast makes sense :-)
15:10:16 <Guest11878> Thanks
15:10:28 <stoneyj> can you please #info your name and institutiont
15:10:29 <MScott> literally from the 'directions'
15:10:30 <stoneyj> ?
15:11:24 <Guest11878> I am Dr. Stephen Fashoto from University of Swaziland
15:11:38 <stoneyj> MScott: sounds like you've answered your own question, yes?
15:11:45 <stoneyj> welcome Guest11878!
15:12:00 <stoneyj> we are talking about stage 1 activities
15:12:01 <ajanovski> MScott: I am not sure if that was what was expected, but i tried to evaluate the general status of both projects and put it in a table, and I will continue with this later this week
15:12:14 <stoneyj> how are folks doing on them, and if they have any questions
15:12:24 <MScott> thanks ajanovski
15:12:39 <MarkZ> @ajanovski, sorry - could you link to your page? not sure what your HFOSS user is
15:13:28 <ajanovski> MarkZ: well are all listed here: http://foss2serve.org/index.php/POSSE_2017-07_Participants, my page is http://foss2serve.org/index.php/User:VAjanovski
15:14:22 <stoneyj> love it
15:14:30 <Deepti> I was struggling with making entries in project evaluation table in my Wiki.
15:15:00 <stoneyj> oops... lost Deepti, hopefully will return
15:15:18 <Guest11878> I was having issues trying to install media wiki successfully on my machine
15:15:36 <stoneyj> um...
15:15:48 <stoneyj> why are you trying to install media wiki on your machine?
15:15:51 <darci> Guest11878: You don't need to do that as part of an activity?
15:16:04 <kkchahal> sorry..i didnt create my wiki page..will do it soon
15:16:06 <stoneyj> just use foss2serve.org
15:16:14 <stoneyj> it is an instance of media wiki
15:16:37 <darci> Deepti: can you be more specific about the problem you are having with the project evaluation table
15:17:47 <stoneyj> Guest11878: does that make sense?
15:17:54 <darci> Are you having trouble creating a table on your wiki page?
15:19:07 <Deepti1> I was not able to add my answers in level column in the table code in wikipage.
15:20:03 <darci> Deepti1: Why don't you look at how the table is created by looking at another page
15:20:34 <darci> Deepti1: Why don't you look at how the table is created by looking at another page
15:20:53 <stoneyj> looks like folks are having connection troubles
15:20:54 <darci> We have them in some of the activities or you can look at another participant's page
15:20:56 <ajanovski> I see that some people are having trouble with connection drops. I was having such issues with pidgin and other clients, so I switched to the web access to freenode at: https://webchat.freenode.net/
15:21:17 <stoneyj> good advise ajanovski
15:21:25 <Deepti1> @darci, OK, I will try looking at some pages.
15:21:26 <stoneyj> I'm using Kiwi IRC (another web client)
15:22:27 <darci> If you have trouble as you work through the activities, please feel free to ping one of us!
15:22:39 <stoneyj> ok ... since questions on stage 1 are slowing down... let's move on to the next topic
15:22:41 <Deepti1> I am facing some connection issues
15:22:47 <stoneyj> #topic Courses
15:23:01 <darci> Deepti1: Try using a different client
15:23:06 <stoneyj> What course(s) in which are you thinking of using HFOSS?
15:23:23 <ajanovski> Deepti1: try using https://webchat.freenode.net/, i also had problems due to the firewall at my institution cutting access intermittently
15:23:38 <stoneyj> Deepti1: ajanovski suggested https://webchat.freenode.net/  and I suggest Kiwi IRC
15:23:51 <stoneyj> Deepti1: both are web-based clients
15:24:24 <Deepti1> Thanks ajanovski, I will try the webclient.
15:25:10 <stoneyj> Personally... I'm teaching a Programming Languages course in the fall... I'm looking for opportunities to include HFOSS (but this is a someone strange combination; there are better courses for HFOSS)
15:25:15 <MarkZ> We have a second year course starting for the first time in September called "Real World Projects" - I'm hoping HFOSS will be a useful addition to that.
15:25:53 <stoneyj> MarkZ: That sounds interesting... what technical background will students have by the time they take your course?
15:25:59 <kkchahal> i am planning to make my students contribute to HFOSS projects as a part of their one semester dedicated to learning project development
15:26:22 <stoneyj> kkchahal: that's cool... what level are your students?
15:26:27 <darci> MarkZ: Cool! I would be interested in hearing more about this!
15:26:42 <MarkZ> Well, we're talking about second year in a UK institution, so they'll have covered basic programming in JS and Java, web development, hardware (Arduino/RasPi), databases etc. Enough to start tackling bigger problems, with our help in the background. :-)
15:26:54 <ajanovski> I am teaching several courses that could relate: Information Systems Development Processes covers general development processes and these projects are good examples of how open-source projects are developed so it can be investigated by students, they could also try to document use-cases, scenarios etc, if some are not there. The other course I am thinking about is Software construction where it is expected to build some new s
15:26:55 <kkchahal> in third year
15:27:14 <stoneyj> MarkZ: sounds very appropriate then
15:27:27 <stoneyj> kkchahal: awesome
15:28:17 <stoneyj> ajanovski: those sound like perfect targets for HFOSS
15:28:34 <darci> A little later we were going to talk about signing up for stage 2 groups. It looks like some of you have courses that are not listed there. Please add them with a brief description.
15:28:43 <stoneyj> #link Stage2 groups http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage2_Groups
15:28:52 <stoneyj> That's the link for group sign ups
15:29:17 <kkchahal> ok
15:29:21 <stoneyj> The purpose of these groups is so that we can help get people together who have similar interests.
15:29:47 <darci> And similar goals, so that they can work together on new activities.
15:30:04 <MScott> Blockly looks interesting to me
15:30:06 <ajanovski> stoneyj: these are 3rd and 4th year computer-science students, so they could fit in any tasks, but I think what I mentioned can be done. The IS development process is also taught on advanced level for graduate students, but it depends on students interest.
15:30:09 <stoneyj> OK... so it sounds like folks are starting to think about where HFOSS might fit... or where they might like to try to integrate it
15:31:17 <darci> Blockly was only recently added to this list, so new for us, you can be our beta tester!
15:31:29 <stoneyj> ajanovski: sounds like both groups will have a solid background for participating in HFOSS
15:31:29 <kkchahal> recently i told my students to work on a portal for senior citizens...they were happy doing it
15:31:40 <MScott> I have many students interested in education software, so perhaps a fit there
15:31:55 <stoneyj> MScott: that sounds interesting... what was it a portal to?
15:32:06 <stoneyj> just general?
15:32:15 <stoneyj> or was it for a specific domain?
15:32:37 <kkchahal> specific to senior citizens needs..includes a forum to beat their loneliness
15:32:49 <stoneyj> ah cool
15:32:52 <darci> Do you have a link?
15:32:55 <MScott> usually games-based learning in some form, usually to teach skills they learned in earlier courses or prior to uni (like literacy, maths, etc.)
15:32:56 <darci> To the project?
15:32:57 <kkchahal> yoga to stay fit
15:33:15 <MScott> there is a lot of interest in well-being too
15:33:22 <ajanovski> also, there are third and fourth option, there are courses in Team Work and Practice at a company position, for such students it could be beneficial if they are really able to join a project team and do something specific. But for this to be possible they should be somehow accepted in the project, or maybe do a project fork for themselves. I have to think about this more.
15:33:28 <kkchahal> to engage caregivers
15:34:02 <darci> kkchahal: Do you have a link to the portal project?
15:34:13 <stoneyj> ajanovski: very cool. Sounds like you are in a target rich environment :)
15:34:31 <stoneyj> Lots of great ideas all!
15:34:38 <kkchahal> nope..it is still in initial stage..i will get in touch with them once vacations are over..
15:34:56 <darci> Keep us in the loop.
15:35:03 <kkchahal> sure
15:35:09 <darci> It sounds like a great project!
15:35:15 <MScott> I am also curious to see how I can fit something into my distributed systems module
15:35:17 <kkchahal> thanks
15:35:33 <MarkZ> MScott: what level is that?
15:35:43 <MScott> perhaps by studying/profiling an OSS
15:35:57 <MScott> second-year students in UK
15:36:02 <MScott> similar to Mark's
15:36:19 <MarkZ> I wonder if there's an overlap between that and our RWP module
15:36:25 <ajanovski> stoneyj: we have 4000 students, so there are many options, but unless the project we choose is really live and they feel welcome to join they will quit (here all students canquit a course within 30 days of the beginning and switch to another)
15:37:35 <stoneyj> ajanovski: there are 4000 students at your school? or are they all CS majors?
15:37:45 <stoneyj> ajanovski: how long is a course?
15:37:56 <ajanovski> stoneyj: yes. course is 14 weeks.
15:38:49 <stoneyj> ajanovski: I think our students have 2 or 3 weeks in which they can add/drop courses
15:38:51 <ajanovski> stoneyj: and you have 1 year to finish the course and pass. if not you retake just that course.
15:39:01 <stoneyj> ajanovski: are these required course?
15:39:05 <MScott> probably Mark, but I need to ensure that they learn networking/concurrency/databases :-)
15:39:28 <stoneyj> ajanovski: interesting model
15:39:52 <stoneyj> feel free to keep talking about courses and projects
15:40:05 <ajanovski> stoneyj: Practice and Teamwork are required, but there are lots of projects on offer, from all teachers, so it is highly competitive, it has to seem very interesting and very live from the first encounter
15:40:12 <stoneyj> in the interest of time, I'm going to move us to the last topic
15:40:31 <ajanovski> stoneyj: the other courses I mentioned are elective and only ~15 student per year take them
15:40:50 <stoneyj> #topic stage 2
15:40:59 <stoneyj> #link Stage 2 activities http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_2_Activities
15:41:13 <stoneyj> Stage 2 is our face-to-face meeting in Italy, July 1-2.
15:41:23 <stoneyj> We are a little less than one month away.
15:41:29 <MarkZ> :)
15:41:34 <stoneyj> What questions do you have about Stage 2?
15:41:41 <stoneyj> (schedule is coming soon)
15:41:57 <stoneyj> (we are retooling it from a 3 day schedule to a 2 day schedule)
15:42:35 <kkchahal> do we have any member in this group from the university of Bologna?
15:42:39 <MarkZ> what sorts of activities will we be doing?
15:43:32 <stoneyj> MarkZ: Let me grab a link to a previous POSSE workshop so that you have an idea of what we are doing
15:43:44 <MarkZ> stoneyj: thanks! :)
15:44:15 <darci> We have someone from the University of Bologna who has a conflict with a working group that will attend some of the sessions.
15:46:07 <darci> #link Here is a link to a draft of the 2-day schedule: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eo3vdgaX_BuryYxKMHT2f5IxnhaiZeYFNUBO5g70cgY/edit
15:46:16 <stoneyj> thanks darci!
15:46:24 <stoneyj> that's a work in progress
15:46:32 <stoneyj> but that should give you an idea of what's to come
15:47:00 <stoneyj> does that link work for you?
15:47:22 <MScott> need to request access
15:47:23 <stoneyj> if not, might need to remove the "/edit" from the end
15:47:43 <kkchahal> yes request for access has been sent
15:48:12 <MScott> no difference with "/edit" removed
15:48:16 <MarkZ> needed to request access either way
15:48:28 <ajanovski> stoneyj: no difference it asks to request for access, which I did :)
15:48:39 <stoneyj> ok... hang on... we're working on it
15:50:26 <stoneyj> ok... use this link instead
15:50:34 <stoneyj> #link 2-day schedule WIP: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nYPZ7oQb20U1QzRu3dJvXi9JUdUHR1KBtlThU0PuCdw/edit?usp=sharing
15:51:08 <stoneyj> does that work?
15:51:11 <kkchahal> working
15:51:15 <stoneyj> awesome!
15:51:20 * stoneyj dances around
15:51:41 * darci laughing
15:51:54 <stoneyj> ok... other questions about stage 2?
15:52:02 <MarkZ> 50 ways of being a FOSSer sounds intriguing
15:52:06 <stoneyj> content? logistics?
15:52:27 <stoneyj> right... we'll be looking at different ways to contribute to a project other than just code
15:53:03 <MarkZ> do you mean socially?
15:53:40 <darci> No, not really, code contributions, documentation, translations, etc.
15:54:25 <stoneyj> right, there are lots of ways to contribute to an HFOSS project that isn't code
15:54:37 <kkchahal> but students mostly get awarded for code contributions   :)
15:54:59 <darci> That can vary depending on the course
15:55:14 <MarkZ> ah, ok - got it. that reminds me of a softeng module i run - i ask students to submit code, but tell them that i'm not grading it - i only grade supplementary material (gantt charts, sprint backlogs etc) - they're always very surprised
15:55:19 <stoneyj> and depends on what you mean by "awarded"
15:55:37 <kkchahal> i mean grades
15:55:44 <stoneyj> MarkZ: cool!
15:55:55 <darci> Yes, cool!
15:56:23 <stoneyj> kkchahal: right, so grading student interaction in an HFOSS project is an interesting topic to
15:56:24 <darci> I think it will be interesting to hear how others assess their students.
15:56:24 <stoneyj> too
15:56:29 <MarkZ> stoneyj: yeah - ran it for two years now and there's always an initial confusion as they try to break out of their 'we must code!' shell
15:56:55 <Deepti> it is good make students realize other aspects of software development other than coding
15:57:32 <stoneyj> MarkZ:  right, students don't always understand all the other things that must happen to create code
15:57:36 <stoneyj> right Deepti!
15:57:40 <kkchahal> students want to jump to coding asap ..my experience
15:58:09 <Deepti> yes true.
15:58:17 * stoneyj looks at the clock
15:58:19 <kkchahal> i have to restrict them to work on requirements, design first
15:58:29 <stoneyj> we are about out of time
15:58:32 <MScott> MarkZ: I run my first-year SE module like that - I want documentation, metrics, etcs
15:58:41 <stoneyj> any other last minute thoughts/questions?
15:59:07 <MarkZ> MScott: we should compare student reactions :) i think that would be pretty telling
15:59:18 <MScott> :-)
15:59:33 <stoneyj> that would be interesting too
15:59:42 <stoneyj> motion to adjourn?
16:00:02 <darci> good by me!
16:00:06 <stoneyj> ok...
16:00:07 <MarkZ> i'm happy with that. this was a great chat (and intro for me!) - i really look forward to meeting you all in bologna
16:00:17 <stoneyj> thanks all for coming!
16:00:17 <darci> Yes!
16:00:21 <darci> Thank you all!
16:00:26 <stoneyj> talk to you soon!
16:00:28 <stoneyj> #endmeeting