00:03:57 <lorip> #startmeeting IRC 2
00:03:57 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Oct 25 00:03:57 2016 UTC.  The chair is lorip. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
00:03:57 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
00:03:57 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc_2'
00:04:17 <lorip> Hi everyone!  Here's a link to our agenda
00:04:30 <lorip> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_2
00:04:31 <krish> Sorry didn't get the link
00:04:38 <krish> oops spoke too soon
00:04:49 <lorip> #topic introductions
00:05:03 <lorip> I'm not sure who met who yet, so let's start with quick intros.
00:05:19 <lorip> Name, Institution and anything else you want to share
00:05:30 <lorip> let's go through alphabetically by nick
00:05:45 <krish> Hi I'm Krish Narayanan. I teach at Eastern Michigan University. Have taught software engineering and databases for a long time now.
00:06:16 <drbobrinkman> I'm Bo Brinkman, Miami University (Oxford, Ohio). I teach data structures, algorithms, computer ethics, and a variety of other stuff.
00:06:29 <whe> I am Wu He, from Old dominion University. I teach Visual Basic. Net and Web Development
00:06:35 <lorip> glikins, are you on?
00:07:30 <lorip> glikins is Gina Likins, one of our collaborators at Red Hat - she hangs out on this channel but doesn't look like she is available at the moment
00:08:03 <lorip> I'm Lori Postner from Nassau Community College in Long Island, NY.  I teach CS0 in VB, CS1 and Mobile Application Development for Android
00:08:21 <lorip> #topic Status Updates
00:08:42 <lorip> The purpose of this call is to touch base and see where people are at, answer questions you might have, etc.
00:09:10 <lorip> How are people finding Stage 1 A & B activities?
00:09:26 <krish> So far so good. Very informative.
00:09:49 <drbobrinkman> I agree. I'm done with A&B, and found them useful.
00:10:18 <lorip> glad you are finding them helpful
00:10:24 <lorip> whe: how is it going for you?
00:10:34 <whe> I am working on the part B
00:10:34 <krish> I am yet to finish but am finding out that I tend to spend more than than what is suggested!
00:11:19 <lorip> krish: we've heard that before - the suggested times are there so people have a sense of what we are expecting
00:11:37 <lorip> we don't want you spending 5 hours on something that we are expecting you to do in 30 minutes
00:11:50 <krish> Yes, I'm sure if i wanted to I could curtail myself. But there is so much info!
00:12:05 <krish> I understand
00:12:16 <lorip> as long as you feel you are being productive that is great!
00:12:24 <krish> Absolutely
00:12:33 <lorip> Any questions so far on the activities?
00:12:45 <drbobrinkman> One problem I had: I can't find the official definitions of the sourceforge statuses (inactive, mature, production, beta, etc). I think I know what they mean, but ...
00:12:59 <krish> What is the purpose of the blog for part B? I feel like I am putting information in two places - wiki and blog
00:13:18 <krish> Yes, I couldn't either
00:13:33 <drbobrinkman> krish: I thought maybe It was a typo, so I've only been putting stuff in my blog, but then linked my blog from the Wiki
00:13:47 <krish> ok
00:13:54 <krish> I am doing the opposite
00:14:13 * lorip looking, my recollection is the definitions aren't listed, we want you to try and figure them out
00:14:15 <krish> Or may be we were supposed to get experienced with maintaining a blog
00:14:56 <lorip> krish - not sure if I understand the question - the purpose of the blog is to introduce you to another tool often used in open source projects
00:15:07 <krish> ok
00:15:18 <lorip> we wanted you to see the difference between a blog and a wiki
00:15:25 <lorip> hi birgit
00:15:30 <birgit> Hi all :)
00:15:40 <krish> Hi birgit
00:16:04 <lorip> birgit: can you do a quick intro?
00:16:14 <birgit> sorry I'm a little late, yes of course
00:16:21 <birgit> assistant prof at CSULB
00:16:29 <birgit> did my activity 2 things
00:16:35 <lorip> what is CSULB?
00:16:50 <birgit> California State University Long Beach :)
00:16:55 <lorip> thanks :)
00:17:13 <lorip> krish & bo, which activities in particular are you questioning?
00:17:58 <drbobrinkman> lorip: Some activities have a Wiki posting as the deliverable, some have a blog post as the deliverable. My preference is to keep all my notes in the same place.
00:17:58 * lorip looking
00:18:11 <drbobrinkman> lorip: Like FOSS_Field_Trip_Activity requires a Wiki posting ..
00:18:35 <birgit> Oh yes, I wasn't quite sure about that either, I put all my notes on the blog and then linked the blog from the wiki
00:18:41 <birgit> is that a good way to do it?
00:18:49 <lorip> I may be wrong, but I thought B.1, B.2, B.4 and B.5 are all put on the wiki but B.3 was a blog posting which you then linked to your wiki page
00:19:11 <krish> That's what I have been doing - not complete yet
00:19:20 <drbobrinkman> lorip: B.3 asks you to move the B.2 wiki post to the blog
00:19:45 <birgit> so where on the wiki? on which pages?
00:20:38 <birgit> on my user page?
00:20:39 <drbobrinkman> birgit: I did the same thing you did. And I think we are both OpenMRS fans? :)
00:20:55 <birgit> drbobrinkman yes :)
00:21:06 <lorip> OK - I don't want to take up your time now.  Which ever way you did it is fine as long as we can find it.
00:21:15 <lorip> I'll have to look into it more offline.
00:21:15 <birgit> it seems to be really well documented and supported and active
00:21:23 <krish> I am a fan of OpenMRS too
00:21:48 <lorip> if there aren't other questions about the activities let's talk about projects (since we are going that way anyway)
00:21:55 <lorip> #topic Projects
00:21:58 <krish> I was trying to find now. Not sure where I read it
00:22:01 <birgit> well, did anyone post their deliverables directly on the wiki? if we look at those, then we could get a better understanding of what might be the most reasonable pplace for the various notes
00:22:17 <drbobrinkman> I have a quick OpenMRS story ...
00:22:21 <krish> I did
00:22:26 <birgit> ok, projects: OpenMRS yes please :)
00:22:36 <birgit> krish: where exactly did you post your notes then?
00:22:36 <lorip> Sounds like there are 3 people interested in OpenMRS - let's hear the story
00:22:43 <birgit> story time! :)
00:22:46 <drbobrinkman> Many years ago I had a good student ... near graduation I asked what he was doing next. He said that he was not going to use his degree, he was going to the Peace Corps ...
00:22:52 <krish> On the wiki
00:23:07 <drbobrinkman> In doing the homework last week I discovered he wrote quite a bit of the onboarding documentation for OpenMRS. :D
00:23:13 <drbobrinkman> Guess he used his degree after all.
00:23:19 <birgit> Wooow
00:23:29 <lorip> bo - that is awesome!  what is the student's name?
00:23:34 <krish> Neat that you found out
00:23:35 <birgit> krish: yes, but on which page? on your user page?
00:23:36 <drbobrinkman> Thad Kerosky
00:23:39 <krish> yes
00:23:43 <birgit> ah, ok
00:23:51 <lorip> not someone I'm familiar with... that is very cool!
00:23:54 <krish> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/User:KNarayan
00:24:11 <lorip> What makes people interested in OpenMRS?
00:24:14 <birgit> thank you, krish! my blog is here #link http://maythesource.blogspot.com/
00:24:31 <drbobrinkman> #link http://bobrinkman.com/category/hfoss-posse/
00:25:28 <drbobrinkman> lorip: I liked OpenMRS because of their onboarding process, and the fact that they clearly welcome and help newcomers
00:25:30 <birgit> thank you drbobrinkman
00:25:31 <krish> I guess it is a generic platform for healthcare which in my opinion is mind-boggling
00:26:21 <drbobrinkman> lorip: I also used to work at Cerner, a medical software company, so I thought my domain knowledge might be useful
00:26:21 <krish> The architecture looks simple yet complex enough for students to get a god experience
00:26:44 <krish> Our students are most comfortable with Java and MySQL
00:26:59 <lorip> we've had a number of faculty use OpenMRS in a variety of contexts
00:27:06 <birgit> that's what I thought, complex enough to be a real project but simple enough to be able to use it in one semester
00:27:21 <birgit> plus our students use Java and MySQL as well
00:27:30 <krish> Yes the fact that it is currently being worked on is a plus
00:27:44 <lorip> the code base is quite large but it has a nice set of modules which some find easier to get a handle on
00:28:00 <krish> I agree with birgit
00:28:04 <birgit> I have looked at the modules and not sure how to evaluate them
00:28:05 <lorip> whe: do you have any thoughts about a project?
00:28:35 <birgit> are there some modules that lend themselves really well to courses? I should probably look at some Java modules.
00:28:42 <krish> I haven't looked at the modules yet but I understand that it is going to be huge
00:29:12 <drbobrinkman> They have some curated "intro" tickets and some curated "starter projects" ...
00:29:14 <whe> My students are mainly IT students whose coding skills are not as strong as CS students. I am a little worried
00:29:28 <lorip> birgit: I haven't used them but I can put an email out to previous POSSE members to see who has if you don't touch base with anyone while in Raleigh
00:29:35 <krish> I believe that contributions can be of different kibd
00:29:47 <lorip> whe: not all contributions are coding
00:30:11 <whe> Ok, we can pair them with CS students
00:30:25 <lorip> this will be discussed when we get to Raleigh, but think about ways in which your students might be able to participate
00:30:25 <krish> whe sounds like a good idea
00:30:57 <lorip> documentation, ui development, perhaps some database, testing - all of these could be options
00:31:18 <birgit> drbobrinkman: i see you even already submitted a ticket!
00:31:40 <whe> That sounds good taks for my IT students
00:31:51 <lorip> while on the topic of projects, I know some of you have already added yourself to the project & groups page
00:31:56 <drbobrinkman> birgit: I got very excited, and was avoiding chores at home.
00:32:01 <lorip> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage2_Groups
00:32:46 <lorip> if you haven't please do so when you have a chance - this helps us get a sense of peoples' interests and direction before arriving for Stage 2
00:32:47 <birgit> drbobrinkman hahaha i like that :)
00:33:02 <birgit> lorip: done!
00:33:17 <whe> ok, will get it done by 26th
00:33:31 <lorip> excellent birgit!
00:33:38 <drbobrinkman> lorip: Have you found that the fact that OpenMRS is part of the Part B activities tends to steer people that way? Or does it end up fairly evenly divided?
00:33:40 <krish> Me too
00:34:03 <krish> I think i was interested in it from the beginning
00:34:03 <lorip> that page still had our last POSSE participants, so I cleaned it up just before this meeting
00:35:11 <lorip> drbobrinkman: each POSSE is different - I don't think it makes a big difference - we've found that often people think they want to use one project and then based upon discussions when we meet face to face they change their minds
00:35:52 <lorip> our goal at this point is to get people thinking and exploring but realize that the more you learn and talk with others your preference may change
00:37:09 * lorip thinking did I just kill the conversation?
00:37:21 <krish> lorip: is there a reason why we focus on these three projects only?
00:37:52 <lorip> good question - we originally wanted projects that team members have some experience with
00:38:13 <lorip> we started with Mifos, GNOME accessibility, Sahana and OpenMRS
00:38:19 <birgit> haha lorip: no you didn't - I just thought that saying I am not surprised by that face2face meetings change things wasn't much of a contribution to the conversation either ;)
00:38:24 <krish> I was wondering how to start your own project. Is it something we will discuss later?
00:38:38 <birgit> phew krish thinking big - i like it :)
00:38:45 <lorip> at our first POSSE we had someone who had worked with Ushahidi extensively so we added that
00:39:05 <lorip> and two of our team members took over MouseTrap from GNOME
00:39:41 <krish> I liked some projects from OpenHub too
00:39:53 <lorip> we didn't have much interest in Mifos or Sahana so those fell by the wayside over time but then last fall people expressed an interest in it
00:40:26 <lorip> krish: to answer you question, one of our goals is to have student interact with an existing community of developers
00:41:08 <krish> I understand. Have POSSE alumni started their own projects?
00:41:08 <lorip> when creating your own project this aspect is missing - students learn a lot from having to communicate in a professional environment
00:41:19 <whe> that's a good benefit to students!
00:41:25 <krish> yes
00:41:45 <lorip> krish: I believe some have tried, but I don't know of any that have gotten off the ground
00:42:14 <krish> Question: do experienced people on the project take the time to help ou new comers?
00:42:20 <lorip> we've talked about trying to create a HFOSS project that would be run across multiple campuses, so it is definitely something to discuss next month
00:42:34 <krish> That sounds intersting to me
00:43:03 <drbobrinkman> krish: On OpenMRS, definitely yes. I had at least two of the main developers jump in to help me.
00:43:12 <lorip> it depends upon the project - we've tried to pick projects that are welcoming to students
00:43:13 <krish> great
00:43:43 <krish> I think it is an important factor for a good student experience
00:43:54 <lorip> we suggest that before bringing your students to a project that you introduce yourself, your students and to let the community know about your goals
00:44:40 <lorip> krish - absolutely, we want students to have a positive experience (and the profs too!)
00:44:52 <birgit> that makes a lot of sense before letting 30 newbies jump onto a project :)
00:45:04 <whe> definitely
00:45:08 <lorip> I feel like I was typing so fast that I missed a question or two - please re-ask if I didn't answer
00:45:52 <lorip> on some of the projects there are community outreach people who can put you in touch with people on the project
00:46:02 <krish> lorip: I'm interested in proposing a new course on OS development. Do you know of people who have done this?
00:46:39 <lorip> no one that I can think of - I'll ask around
00:46:52 <krish> ok
00:46:53 <drbobrinkman> krish: Do you mean Open Source or Operating Systems?
00:47:03 <krish> open source software development
00:47:05 <lorip> I assumed Operating Systems
00:47:20 <krish> sorry
00:47:43 <lorip> OH!  yes, you are looking at a software engineering/capstone course or an intro to openness type course?
00:47:52 <lorip> thanks drbobrinkman for the clarification!
00:48:36 <krish> We have a capstone course. I am wondering if a new course is a good idea.
00:48:47 <birgit> in my university it takes quite a while to get a new course into a program but it is easy to offer it for a first time as special topics course, while you polish the forms for getting it through the official submission process. that way you don't have to spend a whole year. I will be offering it as a capstone next Spring
00:49:13 <krish> A special topics is my idea too
00:49:15 <lorip> a number of people have used HFOSS as their capstone course and others have done a special topics course
00:49:25 <birgit> if it is a new elective it essentially depends on whether your students need it for something to be popular enough, that's my experience with electives
00:49:59 <krish> Yes that's typically how it works!
00:50:02 <birgit> having a regular FOSS course would be cool but not sure how well it would be attended on a consistent basis
00:50:37 <lorip> dickenson college is redesigning their senior capstone, a prof at western oregon has a FOSS senior level course and there are a number of other examples
00:50:48 <birgit> so capstone and/or special topics, let's roll, and if it turns into a full blown success at your university, even better, make it a new course :)
00:51:01 <drbobrinkman> We just created a Humanitarian Engineering and Computing Minor ... so we might be able to get HFOSS to fly at least every other year...
00:51:06 <lorip> these are all great topics for discussion for Stage 2
00:51:15 <krish> I will be teaching our capstone course in winter (software engineering) and am not quite sure how I will fit this in the curriculum
00:51:19 <lorip> we will have a few alum there who can help answer questions as well
00:51:41 <birgit> drbobrinkman coooool!
00:51:45 <krish> Looking forward to it
00:51:51 <lorip> we are running out of time, speaking of Stage 2, any questions about logicstics?
00:51:57 <drbobrinkman> krish: If I was teaching capstone next semester I would probably pick one of the OpenMRS "projects" as the topic of the course. They are meant to be two-week projects for an experience developer...
00:52:25 <lorip> #topic Stage 2 questions
00:52:29 <krish> drbobrinkman I will look into it.  Thanks.
00:52:50 <drbobrinkman> lorip: Did you find out the lodging info?
00:52:58 <drbobrinkman> lorip: nvm
00:53:06 <krish> ?
00:53:06 <drbobrinkman> lorip: I forgot you already emailed me about that.
00:53:32 <lorip> drbobrinkman - darci is going to make that phone call as she make the hotel arrangments
00:53:36 <krish> Not sure I understand
00:53:50 <lorip> krish: bo was asking about the hotel block we reserved
00:54:10 <lorip> we have all the rooms already set up - people don't need to make their own reservations
00:54:15 <drbobrinkman> krish: I'm not good at reading email. :(
00:54:19 <krish> Do we know where we are staying?
00:54:41 * lorip looking that up - one minute
00:54:44 <krish> drbobrinkman: email is out of fashion, I guess :)
00:55:00 <birgit> krish: i wish
00:55:12 <lorip> we are at the Marriott Raleigh Downtown
00:55:17 <krish> ;)
00:55:41 <krish> Close to Red hat?
00:55:53 <whe> will you email us the details next week?
00:55:53 <lorip> yes, I believe it is walking distance
00:56:43 <lorip> we will be sending an email with all of the local information - it probably won't be until the week of Nov. 8th though
00:56:54 <whe> ok
00:57:16 <lorip> Any other questions before we wrap up?
00:57:47 <drbobrinkman> nope!
00:57:50 <krish> We have one more meeting before Rayleigh, correct?
00:58:21 <lorip> yes, one more IRC the week of Nov. 7th
00:58:40 <krish> Will we be working the whole time while in Rayleigh?
00:59:11 <lorip> krish: pretty much, we typically start around 9am and go through dinner
00:59:18 <krish> Not sure why I am spelling Raleigh incorrectly, repeatedly :(
00:59:26 <lorip> going once, going twice, last call...
00:59:29 <birgit> through meaning? eat pizza while hacking? ;)
00:59:46 <birgit> no worries, ok :)
00:59:58 <lorip> no, we will go out to dinner as a group - no laptops!
01:00:03 <krish> Looking forward to it
01:00:08 <birgit> me too
01:00:23 <whe> me too
01:00:38 <lorip> glad to hear it - going to stop the meetbot and post the logs... let us know if you have any questions
01:00:43 <lorip> #endmeeting