17:01:19 <chris_murphy> #startmeeting IRC 3, Session 2, POSSE 2018-06
17:01:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jun 13 17:01:19 2018 UTC.
17:01:19 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:01:19 <zodbot> The chair is chris_murphy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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17:01:19 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc_3,_session_2,_posse_2018-06'
17:01:30 <chris_murphy> #chair chris_murphy darci
17:01:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: chris_murphy darci
17:01:45 <chris_murphy> Here's the agenda for today:
17:01:47 <chris_murphy> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_3
17:01:47 <darci> Hi all!
17:02:05 <markhall> Hello everyone from the Badger state!
17:02:07 <glikins[m]> hi darci
17:02:11 <chris_murphy> Let's start with intros
17:02:20 <chris_murphy> #topic Roll Call
17:02:35 <chris_murphy> Please introduce yourself using #info name – organization , maybe by order of nickname
17:02:40 <chris_murphy> I'll start!
17:02:44 <chris_murphy> #info Chris Murphy, Univ of Pennsylvania
17:02:52 <Farhan> #info Farhan Siddiqui, Dickinson College
17:02:59 <darci> #info Darci Burdge, Nassau Community College
17:03:04 <matt_magnusson> #info Matt Magnusson, Univ. of New Hampshire
17:03:07 <kussmaul> #info Clif Kussmaul, Muhlenberg College
17:03:30 <markhall> #info Mark Hall, until July 1, UW-Marathon county 2 yr university, after July 1, UW-Stevens Point, 4 yr university,
17:04:17 <chris_murphy> hi, @jfoster, we're doing intros
17:04:26 <chris_murphy> can you please introduce yourself using #info name - org ?
17:06:03 <chris_murphy> okay, let's get to item #1 on the agenda: discussing progress on Stage 1 activities
17:06:08 <chris_murphy> #topic Stage 1 progress
17:06:14 <chris_murphy> how is that going so far?
17:06:50 <matt_magnusson> good looking forward to next week
17:07:39 <Farhan> I have completed stages 1a and 1b, working on 1c
17:07:48 <chris_murphy> ok great!
17:08:12 <markhall> Due to the merger, do not know what or where I am teaching next fall, nor salary, so what to choose to do next week is ???
17:08:36 <kussmaul> @markhall, I suggest the course that interests you most
17:09:11 <markhall> K.  What is better for this topic, CS1 (java) or CS2 (java)?
17:09:48 <markhall> Assuming that the CS2 might have better impact?
17:10:11 <darci> markhall: We could have discussions on both, but I think we've found that it is easier to implment HFOSS related content in CS2/Data Structures
17:10:27 <kussmaul> I think it's easier to have students do substantive work in CS2 (or later), but there is certainly useful work that could be done in CS1 or by non-CS people
17:11:16 <markhall> That is what I thought.  So which project would be better to choose for next week.  The CS2 is advanced java topics and beginning data structures (stack, queue, linkedlists)
17:12:46 <jfoster> Sorry I’m late to the intros. I’m James Foster from Walla Walla University. I was actually in the Monday meeting and left the chat window open. So, I’ll be lurking but might not contribute much.
17:12:58 <darci> It depends a bit on what you want to do and what language your students are learning.
17:13:00 <chris_murphy> haha no problem @jfoster, welcome!
17:13:39 <darci> markhall: What language will you use to implement concepts being taught in CS2?
17:14:29 <markhall> Java if I teach at my current campus, and maye C# at new campus
17:15:19 <darci> OpenMRS is in Java.
17:15:32 <darci> Also, the Open Food Facts Android app
17:16:31 <jfoster> As to when to introduce open source, I just completed an intro (first-year) class where we asked students to contribute to a project and suggested a non-programming task such as documentation. We had good success with that.
17:16:32 <darci> I would also add that much of the discussion that occurs within a project group can be applied across projects
17:17:00 <darci> jfoster: that is cool!
17:17:11 <darci> Which project did your students contribute to?
17:17:19 <matt_magnusson> I think documentation is a good idea for CS1
17:18:13 <jfoster> One of our students updated the install instructions for Submitty, another translated some content into French.
17:18:41 <markhall> Did they do this as part of an (graded) assignment?
17:19:36 <jfoster> Yes, almost 20% of the grade was “involvement” in an open source project. The main goal was to go through the fork, clone, edit, push, pull request process. Full credit for the pull request even if not accepted.
17:20:12 <markhall> Students had entire semester to do this open source project?
17:20:39 <markhall> Students chose, or did you help them choose?
17:20:43 <darci> So, this was done in parallel with other (CS1 like) topics?
17:20:53 <jfoster> We are on the quarter system, so 10 weeks, and the open source part started later so it was more like a part of the last half. Perhaps the greatest benefit was the realization that there is a world out there that welcomes their involvement.
17:21:10 <markhall> That alone is cool.
17:21:18 <jfoster> They were allowed to select their project, but I provided lots of suggestions.
17:22:04 <jfoster> This class is a “survey” that includes career preparation and the main lesson is that you can gain experience without having a job. If you spend a couple years showing your passion for something that will impress future employers.
17:22:12 <markhall> I was thinking of doing a Special Topics course for Open Source Projects.  Not sure I have the time to fit into an existing course.
17:22:32 <markhall> Would that work?
17:22:59 <darci> Certainly! There are others who have done Special Topics courses.
17:23:07 <markhall> Especially in current state of confusion that exists in Wisconsin right now.
17:23:17 <chris_murphy> I've done that at Penn about five times. Not for a few years, though, but am happy to share insights
17:23:59 <markhall> Would have to teach at the same level as a CS2 student...
17:24:47 <darci> markhall: Are you saying the special topics course would be at the same level as a CS2 student?
17:24:48 <markhall> Could you send me (mark.hall@uwc.ed) some course info for Special Topics courses?
17:25:20 <chris_murphy> mine was targeted at juniors/seniors who had completed our SE course, but expectations of code contributions could be tailored to the students' level, i suppose
17:25:22 <markhall> Initial plan is to offer Special Topics class in sequence to CS2, and they have one major project.
17:25:35 <chris_murphy> i'll definitely email you after we wrap up
17:25:36 <glikins[m]> jfoster Hi! I had a call with West yesterday and he said to say Hi!
17:25:54 <markhall> to implement knowledge gained in CS2
17:26:05 <darci> Interesting!
17:26:29 <darci> Do you have many transfer students?
17:26:51 <darci> Do you know how the special topics course would transfer?
17:27:01 <glikins[m]> jfoster: (scrolling back):  "This class is a “survey” that includes career preparation and the main lesson is that you can gain experience without having a job. If you spend a couple years showing your passion for something that will impress future employers." -- YES!!!
17:27:08 <jfoster> @glikins, was that West from RPI? or West from Santa Fe?
17:27:23 <markhall> No, for either 2 yr or 4 yr universities.  Since 2 year would be 4 year course, thus it would be I think CS elective.
17:27:29 <glikins[m]> Wes from RPI - they are one of our partner schools
17:27:41 <glikins[m]> #info gina likins, Red Hat
17:27:49 <markhall> Not sure, trying to figure out this 4 yr university w/o much return info coming from chair.
17:28:36 <markhall> 2 yr univ being forced down 4 yr university...Not the best way to enter a department
17:29:22 <chris_murphy> okay, I think we'll transition to our next topic
17:29:31 <markhall> Maybe info will speed up once July 1 starts, and then officially part of dept so they will have to deal with me
17:29:47 <chris_murphy> but please be sure to log your progress on Stage 1 in the Google Sheet
17:29:50 <chris_murphy> #info logs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hG45B8aK4A7JaSDx4PE3UvXQNMw6Ph-iE53YqvMOrWQ/edit?ts=5ae33a5d#gid=0
17:30:13 <chris_murphy> #topic Discuss the results of B.4 and C.3
17:30:47 <chris_murphy> The next topic is to discuss the "FOSS in Courses" activities in particular
17:31:28 <chris_murphy> matt_magnusson Farhan could you update us on your progress with those?
17:31:37 <chris_murphy> or any questions?
17:31:38 <Farhan> I am hoping to introduce HFOSS projects in a 300 level Networking and Security class
17:32:29 <chris_murphy> cool. From a "see how it's done" perspective, or "see how it could be improved"?
17:32:51 <matt_magnusson> Currently involved in redesign of curriculum for CS1 and CS2 over summer,  plan is to integrate aspects into one or both
17:34:03 <Farhan> More from a "how it could be improved " perspective. Probably have students form groups and each group would select a relevant project from GitHub, then either contribute to the code or identify/fix a bug. Documentation would also be an option.
17:34:58 <darci> It sounds like we have a few people who will be interested in working on CS1/CS2 courses. Please be sure to make a note of this as part of B.4 and C.3 responses.
17:35:58 <chris_murphy> and also indicate your preference when you sign up for Stage 2 groups
17:36:01 <chris_murphy> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage2_Groups
17:36:08 <Farhan> As a department, we are also revising our curriculum to introduce HFOSS in both CS1 as well as CS2 courses.
17:36:40 <darci> Farhan: You might want to look at some of the activities developed by Steven Crain (see foss2serve). He is a POSSE alum and did quite a bit of work in this area.
17:37:10 <Farhan> @darci: I will do that. Thanks!
17:37:12 <chris_murphy> http://foss2serve.org/index.php/OpenMRS_Security_Assessment is a good place to start
17:38:39 <darci> Farhan: You can also get to his activites through the search tool on teachingopensource
17:39:33 <Farhan> @darci: okay, thanks for the leads
17:40:14 <chris_murphy> cool, moving on...
17:40:19 <chris_murphy> #topic Sign up for Stage 2 groups
17:40:38 <chris_murphy> we touched on this already, but please sign up for a project and for a course at
17:40:43 <chris_murphy> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage2_Groups
17:41:16 <chris_murphy> that's for the small group exercises next week at Stage 2
17:41:28 <darci> As a side note...we will be using your responses to B.4 and C.3 to kick start discussions during the face-to-face workshop
17:41:55 <darci> Yes, during the small group exercises
17:42:02 <Farhan> @darci: do you mean responses on our wiki page?
17:42:34 <darci> Yes, both B.4 and C.3 ask you to post some ideas on your wiki page about what you want to do in your courses.
17:42:52 <Farhan> Got it!
17:43:15 <darci> It also helps us to determine what folks are interested in.
17:43:46 <darci> By that I mean interested in working on
17:45:08 <chris_murphy> next up is travel arrangements
17:45:11 <chris_murphy> #topic Enter your arrival and departure times in the POSSE Travel Arrangement Google Sheet
17:45:36 <chris_murphy> Looks like everyone has already done so, but please be sure to update your arrival/departure info in the google sheet
17:45:43 <chris_murphy> #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r4gMu4uDE57nbM2iHSaWn5UXpaHWhyf_ddBL5Qm1qBg/edit#gid=0
17:46:26 <chris_murphy> any questions or issues related to travel?
17:47:29 <markhall> My Sun night at the hotel has been reserved or do I have to do that?
17:47:53 <matt_magnusson> I'm in on an earlier flight on Monday (getting in at 8), are you planning on arranging transportation from airport, if so where would it be to?
17:48:55 <darci> markhall: I would ask that you check with Greg Hislop regarding the Sunday night reservation.
17:49:05 <markhall> ok
17:49:23 <chris_murphy> matt_magnusson: Greg said that the rooms at Drexel will be available all day Monday, but definitely reach out to him to be sure
17:49:32 <matt_magnusson> ok thanks
17:49:36 <chris_murphy> I think he'll also know about travel from PHL
17:49:57 <darci> Everyone should have received an email from Greg about travel from the airport to the hotel
17:50:24 <Farhan> Would it be okay to alter meal requirements or is it too late?
17:50:46 <darci> In general, we ask that you try to travel with someone if possible to reduce costs. The spreadsheet would include info about times that people are arriving.
17:51:04 <darci> You could check that and then reach out if someone else is coming in around the same time.
17:51:51 <darci> Farhan: I believe that most of the catering has been arranged. Again, share any dietary restrictions with Greg.
17:52:10 <darci> I'm sure he'll make any accommodations that are possible.
17:52:21 <Farhan> sure, thanks.
17:53:04 <chris_murphy> okay, last topic:
17:53:06 <chris_murphy> #topic Git and C.2.
17:53:43 <chris_murphy> For next week, please be sure you have completed C.2. (Intro to Github) and have Git installed on your laptop
17:54:25 <darci> We
17:54:29 <darci> oopa
17:54:54 <darci> We will be using git in an activiity on day 1, hence the need.
17:55:52 <chris_murphy> I learn something new/useful every time! Stoney does a great job with it.
17:56:22 <darci> Yes he does!
17:57:18 <chris_murphy> all right, I think we're nearly done. Any last questions?
17:58:29 <darci> Looking forward to seeing everyone next week!
17:58:46 <chris_murphy> I guess we're done! See you in Philadelphia!
17:58:57 <darci> Bye all!
17:59:11 <chris_murphy> #endmeeting