12:00:36 #startmeeting Fedora Mindshare Committee meeting - 2022-10-25 12:00:36 Meeting started Tue Oct 25 12:00:36 2022 UTC. 12:00:36 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 12:00:36 The chair is jwf. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions. 12:00:36 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 12:00:36 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_mindshare_committee_meeting_-_2022-10-25' 12:00:36 Meeting started Tue Oct 25 12:00:36 2022 UTC. 12:00:36 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 12:00:36 The chair is jwf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 12:00:36 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 12:00:37 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_mindshare_committee_meeting_-_2022-10-25' 12:00:45 .hello davdunc 12:00:46 davdunc[m: davdunc 'David Duncan' 12:00:46 davdunc[m: davdunc 'David Duncan' 12:00:59 #meetingname mindshare 12:00:59 The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare' 12:00:59 The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare' 12:01:08 #info About Mindshare: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare/ 12:01:20 .members mindshare 12:01:21 jwf: Members of mindshare: jflory7, nb, bt0dotninja, duffy, thunderbirdtr, pbokoc, davdunc, smeragoel, madelinepeck 12:01:21 jwf: Members of mindshare: bt0dotninja codeblock duffy nb pbokoc @riecatnor siddharthvipul1 tatica till x3mboy 12:01:36 * jwf waves to davdunc 12:01:43 #chair davdunc 12:01:43 Current chairs: davdunc jwf 12:01:43 * LunaJernberg[m] is here 12:01:43 Current chairs: davdunc jwf 12:01:51 :) So happy to see you here jwf (he/him) ! 12:02:06 .hello bittin 12:02:07 LunaJernberg[m]: bittin 'Luna Jernberg' 12:02:07 LunaJernberg[m]: bittin 'Luna Jernberg' 12:03:03 davdunc: The feeling is the same :D 12:03:12 Hi Luna Jernberg! 12:03:25 I am seeing zodbot double today :) 12:03:27 hey jwf (he/him) and davdunc 12:03:42 hi Luna Jernberg :) 12:03:50 jwf: same here 12:04:53 We'll give it another couple of minutes for a quorum. We have a few topics today! 12:04:57 How is everyone today? 12:05:09 i am okay 12:05:27 doing great! 12:06:37 how about you Justin W. Flory (he/him) 12:06:56 hey y'all :) 12:07:08 hey Vipul Siddharth 12:07:25 Heyy 12:07:25 how have you been? davdunc 12:08:21 :) just got back from a great time at Ansiblefest 12:09:06 and i looked at a potential new work place yesterday, but starting earliest 8th November so have 2 weeks time to attend Fedora meetings before i might not be able too as i am working :p 12:09:14 I participated in the Ansiblefest contributor's summit and saw some great next-generation community support! 12:09:24 davdunc[m: I am also doing great! Still learning my around in the new role, but it is progressing 🙂 12:09:36 VipulSiddharth[m: Hey Vipul Siddharth! 12:09:37 same! :D 12:09:49 davdunc[m: Nice davdunc, what did you see? 12:10:19 I saw the event driven architecture for Ansible Automation. Very cool! 12:10:21 (sadly more Windows, Debian and Ubuntu then Fedora) 12:10:46 LunaJernberg[m]: All the best on the new workplace Luna Jernberg! And we always appreciate any time you can give in Fedora -- we do what we can when we can! 12:11:00 jwf: yep 12:11:05 And the new test ansible modules that. .... starts with an "f" but I am forgetting the name. 12:12:11 Luna Jernberg: yes! we are perfectly familiar with how hard it is to volunteer when you are hard at work on commitments. 12:12:12 nb, Máirín Duffy, Onuralp Sezer (he/him) , pbokoc, Smera Goel , Madeline Peck (she/her): Hi folks, are any of y'all around today too? 12:12:57 davdunc: Did you get to run into nb while you were there? 12:13:21 BTW folks, here is the agenda for today. I think we can go ahead and jump in, and any other folks can join when they can: https://hackmd.io/pYt805UiQ4ug02Nsbe1Oqw?edit 12:13:23 davdunc[m: will still help out as much as i can on my spare time, but might not be able to attend all Fedora meetings etc 12:13:40 Justin W. Flory (he/him): I did! We spent a lot of time together, both him and Rick Elrod. 12:14:00 They proctored a HAM test for me at the end of the second day! 12:14:04 davdunc[m: I love it 😁 12:14:27 jwf: sounds good 12:14:30 Okay, let's get this show on the road :) I think it will be a quick meeting since it is just a few of us today. 12:14:33 #topic Meeting structure & agenda 12:14:42 #info === 1. Hellos & welcome (~5 minutes) === 12:14:50 #info === 2. Committee announcements & team read-outs (~5-10 minutes) === 12:14:53 #info === 3. Ticket-driven review & discussion (remaining time) === 12:14:53 #info === 4. Open floor (final 5 minutes) === 12:15:00 #topic Hellos & welcome 12:15:12 We got to do this part already :) 12:15:18 #topic Committee announcements & team read-outs 12:15:40 Any folks of project-wide updates to share? Or anything interesting they have seen across the Fedora-verse? 12:15:51 s/of/have/ 12:16:05 Online F37 Release Party 4-5th November: http://hopin.com/events/fedora-linux-37-release-party 12:16:13 and hopefully a release before then next week, its decided on Thursday 12:16:24 #info F37 Release Party. 4-5th November. Registration is open now! 12:16:29 #link http://hopin.com/events/fedora-linux-37-release-party 12:16:53 bittin++ Good catch, I should have thought of that too 😀 12:16:53 jwf: Karma for bittin changed to 1 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 12:16:53 jwf: Karma for bittin changed to 1 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 12:17:56 #link https://hopin.com/events/fedora-linux-37-release-party/registration 12:18:38 The schedule is shaping up nicely too: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Linux_37_Release_Party_Schedule 12:18:57 ah should look at that thanks Justin :) 12:19:52 Any other news and announcements? 12:20:01 Going once… 12:20:22 Going twice… 12:20:38 Thrice… 12:20:40 🔨 12:20:58 #topic Ticket review 12:21:11 #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issues?priority=10 12:21:24 So, I was using this report view of our tickets to help organize meeting discussion 12:21:47 It is probably a little different than how we organized before, but this is how CommOps used to run our meetings with the Pagure report 12:22:09 So there are five tickets today, let's see if we can at least clear four of these :) 12:22:18 It's a fine way to handle it. 12:22:21 IMO 12:22:33 same 12:22:34 #topic Ticket #371: Fedora 37 Release Party - Thessaloniki, Greece 12:22:40 #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/371 12:22:47 I think this one is our most time-sensitive one. 12:23:01 Because we are looking to send a swag kit out for a release party in Greece. 12:23:28 what can we do to support them? I am +1 to what they need. 12:23:31 I need to remember, what kind of approval does Mindshare have to give for approving a small event? 12:23:35 * jwf goes to read the policy 12:24:02 https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/small-events/ 12:24:10 The ticket needs to get 2 +1s and no -1s in three days 12:24:22 +1 12:24:27 seems approved with Justin's and David's +1s 12:24:38 did a +1 one too in case 12:24:50 Yeah, seems like we are set then. There was some decent discussion in the ticket already too. 12:24:58 I guess there aren't any questions or comments here? 12:25:05 If not, we can approve and commence the swag order :) 12:25:57 yes. I am satisfied that they are running a medium event and I look forward to helping them make it a success 12:26:15 luna: Thanks luna! 12:26:24 OK. Then let's approve and move to the next ticket :) 12:26:44 #agreed This event is approved and can move forward! A swag package will be sent with the information provided in the fedora-budget ticket. 12:27:06 #topic Ticket #370: Move Mindshare repository entirely to Fedora/Gitlab space 12:27:12 #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/370 12:27:17 This one might be a longer discussion 12:27:30 I said what I wanted to say in the ticket. :) 12:27:32 Onuralp Sezer (he/him) opened this ticket with a proposal that we consider shifting our workflow to GitLab from Pagure 12:27:56 I think in terms of what this impacts, it is two things: our docs repo (git) and our ticket discussions (issues) 12:28:16 Ah, I missed your last comment davdunc, let me read 12:28:33 don't have any comments +-0 i leave it up to you, i will use whatever the team leads decides too use :) 12:28:35 tldr; I am happier in Pagure, but I understand that the tools and the zero-day update process is better in gitlab. 12:29:13 Yeah, I will confess it does make my Free Software heart sad to consider a move 12:29:23 But the state of Pagure lately also makes my Free Software heart sad :( 12:29:41 hmm 12:29:41 I **LOVE** Pagure, especially it being a Free Software 12:29:41 but GitLab is also a more accessible platform (I looked at accessibility aspect of both but don't have any reports ready) 12:29:50 indeed. software decisions are never trivial. 12:29:54 and yeah, not sure of the long term Pagure planning 12:30:20 Vipul Siddharth: accessibility is a critical component of our community. 12:30:27 The one thing I have observed is that the CPE team seems oriented towards using community features first, before using any proprietary extensions to GitLab. I don't see us embracing the closed features of GitLab, which is at least a plus. 12:31:04 Although one thing that is nice, is that Mindshare is not using any proprietary features of GitLab 12:31:25 We are using it almost at a surface level (similar to how Pagure works too). There are a lot of features that aren't applicable to the work and tasks our Committee runs 12:31:38 jwf: jwf (he/him): good point and that's something that we should be mindful of in terms of our actions. 12:32:05 I would be much more keen to avoid any proprietary trappings of GitLab, that much I can solidly agree with :) 12:32:12 Maybe we make that a condition as part of this migration. 12:32:20 If it helps provide more assurance to the skeptics among us 12:33:00 jwf: I think it's really implicit in our community experience. 12:33:19 we are, as a rule, open by mission. :) 12:33:26 davdunc[m: I have no issue making it explicit too :) 12:34:00 OK. So here is what I am hearing as a next step from the ticket comments and our discussion… 12:35:06 We could evaluate a move of our docs git repo and a ticket-based discussion repo to GitLab. As a Committee, we commit only to using community features and steering away from any proprietary offerings that may be available to us as part of this migration, to fully realize the Freedom Foundation of our community 12:35:26 I think it would be great if we could build a committee quorum in the ticket by the meeting next Thursday. 12:35:43 Does this seem like a fair next step? 12:36:03 Thursday next week that is? 12:36:05 It does seem like the best next step. 12:36:14 luna: luna: Right! 12:36:47 "Vipul Siddharth: accessibility..." <- Did you see the note from Bryan B. at GitLab - none of thoe policies impact our account 12:37:00 davdunc[m: Cool. Then I'll make a note, encourage you all to cast a vote in the #370 ticket, and we can jump to the next ticket. 12:37:02 Máirín Duffy: I did. Thanks for doing that. 12:37:15 mizmo: mizmo++ Thanks for following up on this! 12:37:15 jwf: Karma for duffy changed to 1 (for the current release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 12:38:41 #info In the meeting, we noted that while there is skepticism about GitLab, it could be a better tool for our Committee. One factor that is important is that we avoid using proprietary/closed features of GitLab that are unavailable in the Community Edition. Should we migrate, we will avoid using proprietary features as a condition of migrating. 12:39:03 what if other teams use thosefeatures and link in mindshare tix? 12:39:12 #agreed We will build quorum in the ticket and aim to make a next step on Thursday, November 3rd 12:39:24 the design team uses the epics / burndown charts and wed want to do so w mindshare tickets we work on 12:39:42 "use" is kinda fuzzy 12:39:50 mizmo: Good question – right now, I am lacking knowledge on what some of the closed features are. But as I understood, it was more about CI, infrastructure, and build resources 12:39:57 mizmo: Ah! 12:40:10 the burndown charts and gantt charts are part of the premium sub 12:40:33 and in a sense the not having dormant repos deleted is also a ultimate level feature 12:40:41 My first feeling is that this wouldn't impact Mindshare if we work with other teams using these features. Other teams can use them independently. 12:41:08 mizmo: That could be useful for us. Hmmm. 12:41:23 Well, we could always revisit if we felt the need was there and our original decision was not right. 12:41:26 theres a lot of helpful project management tools 12:41:50 ive made peace w it bc they d support open source and most of the code is open source 12:41:50 I use the "avoid" lightly here, mostly that we would want to discuss using a feature first before jumping into it? 12:42:16 .hello thunderbirdtr 12:42:17 OnuralpSezerhehi: thunderbirdtr 'Onuralp SEZER' 12:42:17 OnuralpSezerhehi: thunderbirdtr 'Onuralp SEZER' 12:42:37 #chair Máirín Duffy Onuralp Sezer (he/him) 12:42:37 Current chairs: (he/him) Duffy Máirín Onuralp Sezer davdunc jwf 12:42:37 Current chairs: (he/him) Duffy Máirín Onuralp Sezer davdunc jwf 12:43:16 Could we agree on opening a new ticket to discuss as a first step to adding a proprietary feature into the Mindshare workflow? 12:43:35 I imagine at first, it is going to be a learning curve to get set up there before we get to more advanced features. 12:43:37 sounds resonable 12:44:26 yea. Using the epics in the workflow is actually quite nice. 12:44:49 there are lots of good workflow methods we can take advantage of that aren't going to change the data. 12:44:54 its unclear to me what features are proprietary all the time. like is the design mode might be? and thats abasic ticket feature 12:44:56 #info Máirín Duffy noted that there are useful proprietary features that the Design Team uses and may also be useful to Mindshare, like epics, burndown charts, and Gantt charts. 12:45:46 #agreed After migrating, we can open a new discussion ticket before adopting a feature into our workflow that is not in the GitLab Community Edition. We can revisit our original decision as needed to fit the needs of the Committee as we migrate tools and adapt to a new workflow. 12:45:50 the good news is that the gitlab community will help us out. 12:46:17 I'll work on getting this feedback into the ticket. Let's really target next Thursday, 3 November as the voting deadline to move this forward :) 12:46:33 With more Fedora Docs stuff going there, it would be nice timing to migrate together 12:46:48 Any other comments or thoughts here before switching to FOSDEM 2023? 12:47:00 * jwf notes 15 minutes remaining on the clock 12:47:27 Going once… 12:47:41 Going twice… 12:47:59 Thrice… 12:48:08 And sold 🔨 12:48:10 *bang* 12:48:20 #topic Ticket #369: FOSDEM 2023 Stand/Booth 12:48:27 #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/369 12:48:48 So, FOSDEM is returning to Brussels. 12:49:06 And judging by the ticket comments, there was support for having a Fedora booth on the ground next year. 12:49:25 To that end, I went ahead and filled the booth application so we are in the review queue. 12:49:31 looking forward too it, will talk to you jwf about sponsorship of flights to help out in the Fedora booth as Marie said it was okay (and look up prices and flights etc) 12:49:45 But I wanted to flag this ticket for a meeting so we could think about a plan or approach for FOSDEM this year 12:49:49 I think it will be a hybrid event 12:49:59 And I said yes to a virtual booth in the application form 12:50:11 So we would need to rally folks for both in-person and virtual. 12:50:28 * luna will help out in-person 12:50:44 as i got promised a sponsored flight from Fedora 12:50:48 That's awesome. I'll be glad to help out with the virtual coordination. 12:51:06 luna: We can definitely figure out sponsorship opportunities. I will have to refresh on Mindshare policy for travel, since I am not sure how things changed, if they did, in the last two years. 12:51:21 jwf: alright sounds good :) 12:51:44 The ticket review will make sponsorship official, first I need to figure out what we can do and how sponsorship works. That's also a Red Hat conversation I need to have to figure out if there are rules and policies I need to be aware of. 12:51:54 But we definitely want to sponsor folks. 12:52:13 davdunc[m: Awesome davdunc, it would be great to have your help. 12:52:23 you have my email, when you are ready bittin@fedoraproject and i can check on Google Flights for flights and might be good to book flights with a money back guarentee or such if shit hits the fan in January 2023 12:52:30 with some more Corona or some other evil virus 12:52:30 :p 12:52:32 As it gets closer to February, it will be good to talk strategy and what we want Fedora to gain by going to FOSDEM 12:52:49 But for now… 12:53:04 We'll think about it until then. :) 12:53:08 yep can attend those meetings if its afternoon/evening time aka after 17:00 Swedish time 12:53:09 I think this ticket is really an action item for me to start figuring out sponsorships, how that works, and how to direct people who want to participate. 12:53:18 sounds good :) 12:53:19 good use of the forums. :) 12:53:34 davdunc[m: Yes, actually! 12:53:53 On my list of crazy transition things to do, I also want to retire the Mindshare list 😉 But let's do one thing at a time, re: GitLab. 12:54:00 Anyways… 12:54:05 heh, move it to Discourse ? ;) 12:54:24 There are two more tickets remaining, but we also only have five minutes left. And I want to leave space for open floor. 12:54:44 One of them is a social media profile question, which was completed, but it is an open questions whether we should have a policy about it 12:54:50 For reference: https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/368 12:55:03 But right—anything to close out the FOSDEM discussion before open floor? 12:55:32 Going once… 12:55:33 all good. 12:55:36 jwf: I have similar stuff in website site as well for retiring so we may do it quicker (I only see mindshare mails for meeting logs) for other none 12:55:45 site/side* 12:55:55 OnuralpSezerhehi: TBH our list seems pretty quiet. 12:55:58 i have said what i wanted to say 12:56:08 Online details on FOSDEM stands are on Hugo 12:56:08 I have updated details in past.. if needed, I can help with those too this year too 12:56:17 jwf: That is why we can in here right now and move on ? 12:56:19 but we may need a shared description where we can update things? 12:56:28 #action jwf Start researching travel rules and regulations for sponsoring Fedora contributors to attend FOSDEM 2023 in Brussels 12:56:33 s/in/vote**/ 12:56:35 vote** 12:56:37 sorry 12:56:42 VipulSiddharth[m: like a hackmd perhaps 12:56:48 > <@siddharthvipul1:fedora.im> Online details on FOSDEM stands are on Hugo 12:56:48 > I have updated details in past.. if needed, I can help with those too this year too 12:56:48 There will be more information after 15th November when the CFP for stands closes: https://fosdem.org/2023/news/2022-09-26-stands-cfp/ how thats handled this year 12:57:00 OnuralpSezerhehi: Yeah, but I do want to have it logged in a ticket for reference, since not everyone can make the meetings :) 12:57:27 jwf: sure +1 12:57:35 VipulSiddharth[m: I put my comments for the FOSDEM booth in the ticket, but we could probably change what was submitted later if we wanted. 12:57:38 VipulSiddharth[m: such as ? 12:57:40 I am going to have to turn my attention to another meeting. I have a hard stop. 12:57:56 davdunc: No problem. Thanks for being here! 12:57:58 good luck bye 12:57:58 I might as well make it official too— 12:58:00 #topic Open floor 12:58:05 :) happy to get to be a part! 12:58:08 I also have a hard stop :) 12:58:16 * LunaJernberg[m] does not have anything 12:58:32 Vipul Siddharth: I ask Q ? please ? 12:58:57 OnuralpSezerhehi: description and information on Fedora Project 12:59:08 > <@siddharthvipul1:fedora.im> Online details on FOSDEM stands are on Hugo 12:59:08 > I have updated details in past.. if needed, I can help with those too this year too 12:59:08 This 12:59:20 Onuralp Sezer (he/him): This info I think: https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/369#comment-822260 12:59:40 OK folks, I am going to gavel us out for today 12:59:43 We had a full meeting! 12:59:43 https://github.com/FOSDEM/stands-website 12:59:53 Thanks everyone for being here. The discussion doesn't have to stop with the meeting :) 12:59:54 no no, I thought context are different (mail) 12:59:57 but I understand 12:59:58 all good 12:59:59 Have a great rest of your week all! 13:00:02 #endmeeting