13:04:46 #startmeeting Fedora Mindshare Committee meeting - 2022-12-06 13:04:47 Meeting started Tue Dec 6 13:04:46 2022 UTC. 13:04:47 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 13:04:47 The chair is jwf. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions. 13:04:47 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 13:04:47 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_mindshare_committee_meeting_-_2022-12-06' 13:05:01 #meetingname mindshare 13:05:01 The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare' 13:05:06 #info About the Mindshare Committee: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/ 13:05:12 .members mindshare 13:05:13 jwf: Members of mindshare: jflory7, nb, bt0dotninja, duffy, thunderbirdtr, pbokoc, davdunc, smeragoel, madelinepeck 13:05:18 .hello davdunc 13:05:19 davdunc[m: davdunc 'David Duncan' 13:05:19 #chair bt0 davdunc 13:05:19 Current chairs: bt0 davdunc jwf 13:05:26 #topic Meeting structure & agenda 13:05:34 Oh cool, zodbock's back 13:05:35 #info === 1. Hellos & welcome (~5 minutes) === 13:05:38 #info === 2. Committee announcements & team read-outs (~5-10 minutes) === 13:05:43 #info === 3. Ticket-driven review & discussion (remaining time) === 13:05:45 #info === 4. Open floor (final 5 minutes) === 13:05:51 #topic Hellos & welcome 13:06:10 pbokoc: Yeah, zodbot was out for a while, I'm not exploding it anymore :D 13:06:21 Howdy pbokoc! 13:06:22 #chair pbokoc 13:06:22 Current chairs: bt0 davdunc jwf pbokoc 13:06:41 Hey jwf, how's it going? 13:07:29 I'm doing good! It is definitely end of the year. Trying to get all the budget-ducks in a row, so to speak :) 13:07:50 This week, it is all about FOSDEM. And well, even a bit about Flock too 13:08:06 pbokoc: How are you? 13:08:37 jwf, it's my last week at work this year, hehe 13:09:20 awesome 13:09:26 pbokoc: Is that last week at work for the year-end, or you are changing jobs? 13:09:55 jwf, just for the year-end :) 13:10:04 * jwf breathes a sigh of relief :D 13:10:20 Awesome. I hope you will have a super recharge period for the year-end :) 13:10:34 Hope both of y'all are also doing well bt0 and davdunc! 13:10:46 yeah 13:10:51 doing great! 13:11:18 outside of the tremendous amount of end of year paperwork I have on my desk right now. :) 13:11:50 Hahah. Ohhhh yeah. Godspeed good sir! 13:11:59 With that, I think we can get going with the agenda for today. 13:12:14 #topic Committee announcements & team read-outs 13:12:31 Any news and announcements from around the Fedora-verse? The Linux world? The open source universe? 13:12:41 I have one thing come to mind. 13:12:51 o/ 13:12:52 Hello 13:12:56 hi 13:13:02 Howdy Onuralp Sezer (he/him), welcome! We have a good crowd here today :) 13:13:07 #chair Onuralp Sezer (he/him) 13:13:07 Current chairs: (he/him) Onuralp Sezer bt0 davdunc jwf pbokoc 13:13:22 jwf: This time is better than other so I can join this one more easily :) so thank you 13:13:46 Yeah. After the new year, there are probably three teams that need to get an updated time 13:13:55 Anyways, my one announcement is about the Council elections being extended 13:13:58 I am just fishing out the link 13:14:34 Fesco ? 13:14:48 OK, oddly, I cannot find a link about it. But I know Ben made a thread. 13:15:02 #link : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee/Nominations 13:15:11 vote will start dec 9 so It is coming 13:15:55 #info The Fedora Council nomination period is extended by one week (that is, this week!) due to no nominated candidates. There is currently one nominated seat. All other elections will proceed as originally scheduled. 13:15:57 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Council/Nominations 13:16:12 https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-council-election-nominations-now-open/44118/5?u=thunderbirdtr 13:16:14 Yes. FESCo and Mindshare will vote on 9 December 13:16:20 https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-council-election-nominations-now-open/44118/4 13:16:27 jwf: I found the extend note 13:16:29 There it is. Thanks! 13:16:34 you are welcome 13:16:36 thunderbirdtr++ 13:16:52 OK! Any other Fedora / Linux / FOSS news? 13:17:05 Serbia is preparing for party 13:17:07 Or, on to tickets? 13:17:17 let me share ticket 13:17:18 OnuralpSezerhehi: Yes, that's a good one :) 13:17:38 #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/373 13:18:16 #info The local community in Serbia is planning a release party for 11 December 2022. We already agreed to approve their funding in last week's meeting, although it is unlikely the swag package will make it in time. However, we will send extra so they have some for next time! 13:18:30 Awesome 13:18:51 They have 2 big events one of release party and other one is balccon event 13:18:58 nice 13:19:01 I have a #TODO to add comments on last week's tickets. Sometimes the distance between Thursday and Tuesday feels too short :) 13:19:05 Balccon? 13:19:09 they sure will need for other event as well I know because i was there multiple times 13:19:25 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BalCCon_2k17 13:19:31 old link but 13:19:35 It will explain 13:19:58 https://2k22.balccon.org/index.php?title=Main_Page this year passed but for next 13:20:00 Oh, yes. I remember now that fedorauser mentioned it in the ticket 13:20:05 I wonder what dates will be in 2022 13:20:05 jwf: Yes 13:20:07 Err, 2023 13:21:04 Right. 13:21:04 jwf: 2k23 not ready yet so :) 13:21:05 but around september lets say 13:21:05 yes 13:21:05 But looks like generally in September 13:21:05 That's good to know. So, there is time :) 13:21:05 * jwf is trying to do a bunch of budget and travel forecasting for 2023 13:21:45 * OnuralpSezerhehi needs to reach that budget and himself so he can travel more :) 13:22:07 Another ticket we may also close is : https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/372 13:22:18 #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/372 13:22:43 Yep. I have a follow-up on the election ticket. 13:22:52 Why don't we switch over to the ticket discussions, I think that is all for announcements! 13:23:00 #topic Ticket review 13:23:05 #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issues?priority=10 13:23:05 ah sure 13:23:22 #info Note: This list was not updated since our last meeting on Thursday. Some of these tickets are already resolved! 13:23:41 we should empty out here and go gitlab slowly as well 13:24:01 Yeah definitely 13:24:19 I confess I did not do my due diligence as chair to triage and make an agenda. So, we can take any suggestions for tickets to cover in today's meeting. Sorry for being a bit disorganized today. 13:24:29 On the GitLab piece though, there is something we can discuss and decide 13:24:36 jwf: All good Justin 13:24:43 we all here to help you as well 13:24:47 :) 13:25:06 jwf: sure 13:25:22 Teamwork makes the dream work :) 13:25:28 So, the DEI Team is also having this conversation 13:25:31 About GitLab 13:25:41 And whether we move now, or move later. Or something in-between. 13:25:47 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-diversity/issue/241#comment-830956 13:25:52 TL;DNR: 13:25:55 Migrate to GitLab NOW and move historical data LATER: We move our discussion tracker and documentation website from Pagure to GitLab. Pagure goes into read-only state for referencing historical decisions. When tooling is available, we migrate historical data from Pagure and then permanently archive Pagure. 13:26:10 #info Option 1: Migrate to GitLab NOW and move historical data LATER: We move our discussion tracker and documentation website from Pagure to GitLab. Pagure goes into read-only state for referencing historical decisions. When tooling is available, we migrate historical data from Pagure and then permanently archive Pagure. 13:26:12 I prefer one place so If we move lets move all in link new issues link under old pagure tickets then close them all 13:26:16 #info Option 2: Wait for migration support FIRST and move LATER: We wait for tooling that can provide a full, seamless migration of past issues and PRs into GitLab. We continue using the same workflow in GitLab. Once migrated, Pagure is either put into read-only state or deleted. 13:26:51 I'm not quite sure which path to go yet. I think both are a solid amount of work whichever way we go. 13:27:01 so ... yuck. 13:27:03 But I was curious if y'all had opinions or a preference on the GitLab migration piece. 13:27:07 Of note: 13:27:10 Justin I know that there is a auto way to get old ones so you may move history as well 13:27:11 #link https://pagure.io/cpe/initiatives-proposal/issue/25 13:27:46 I learn that while I was talking with W&A side I can go look again also I can design team because they also moved 13:27:47 OnuralpSezerhehi: Do you mean issues and PRs too? Or just the git repository commit history? 13:27:56 jwf: issues and etc yes 13:28:02 but... couldn't we do double duty for a release cycle? 13:28:31 jwf: or we can skip all old ones and use there just for new ones 13:28:32 OnuralpSezerhehi: Oh! If you have more details, that would be super helpful to know. I am chatting more with CPE next week about this tool and the work that would be required for it. 13:28:48 jwf: CPE will help you more as well 13:28:56 davdunc[m: davdunc: Like use Pagure for old tickets, and GitLab only for new ones? 13:28:58 AFAIK 13:29:11 yes.... Justin W. Flory (he/him) 13:29:23 davdunc[m: maybe we can only move active ones then ? 13:29:31 or fresh ones 13:30:13 yea. fresh ones and directing new tickets via template to the GL issues. 13:30:29 OnuralpSezerhehi: CPE wants to help too, but it might not be on a very fast timeline. They have a big backlog of Fedora work already. But more so, the biggest challenge with CPE is that there are some unfilled roles in backfill, and the team is at a reduced capacity than normal. At least, for now. 13:30:50 OK. So, generally what I am hearing is, let's move now and get started sooner than later. 13:30:51 jwf: sad... but I see okay I will look more sure 13:30:58 jwf: yay 13:31:18 OnuralpSezerhehi: So, my feeling here is that we will get an official importer tool eventually, but it might be mid-2023 until it is here. 13:31:32 jwf: oh wouw..... 13:31:36 yea. that's what I am thinking. The tools for the future are so much better for the mindshare model. 13:31:37 that is a long time 13:31:45 bt0: Any thoughts here on timing? 13:31:47 i thought we already discussed gitlab and said lets do it 13:31:55 we did Máirín Duffy 13:31:59 i moved the design team already 13:32:00 mizmo: tRUE 13:32:02 > <@duffy:fedora.im> i thought we already discussed gitlab and said lets do it 13:32:02 * True 13:32:23 but Justin W. Flory (he/him) is talking about the logistics of our current process and how we can't transfer it immediately. 13:32:25 there is no import tool worth speaking of i tried a scriot but api only allows for issue title and desc to be imported 13:32:27 mizmo: We did, but I misunderstood about some tooling. I was trying to map out how we handle historical data. Maybe we did discuss this already though and my morning coffee hasn't kicked in yet. 13:32:31 mizmo: DId you move old ticket or active tickets too or just open new oens 13:32:39 so waiting for a better tool is waiting for godot 13:32:47 not really, I think the option one is better 13:32:49 s/oens/ones/ 13:32:51 i manually moved active tickets 13:33:09 we can do that too :P 13:33:34 Cool then! 13:33:36 Justin W. Flory (he/him): okay we can change mindshare readme and say that please gitlab link and If person new ticket we can close and point to gitlab 13:33:39 Well, here is what I might propose… 13:33:46 * jwf goes to check the calendar for December really quick 13:33:55 maybe couple of times mistakes but people will move and we need to change our doc links as well 13:33:56 like theres nothing cpe can do if they had all the time in the world unless theyre working on gitlabs api upstream to be clear. limitation is on gitlab side 13:34:16 Thanks for info 13:34:36 sure just chiming in bc i dealt w it directly for design team and tried to script a way 13:34:53 mizmo: yup 13:35:02 mizmo: Máirín Duffy: This is the conversation we are having, as I understand it. But yeah, the time variable is the tricky one and I don't think we can know this year what a timeline could look like. But CPE is starting to scope and research what work would be required for it to happen 13:35:09 mizmo: That's helpful to know! 13:35:12 Right, so— 13:35:13 so sooner rather than later is definitely the best option. :) 13:35:31 We have two more meetings this year. Technically three, but the last week of the year, I figure we will definitely skip for holiday 13:35:40 I am thinking we repurpose one of our remaining two meetings to a "mini sprint" day 13:35:48 We can jump on audio/video call and just get this done./ 13:35:52 sounds like a great idea! 13:35:53 jwf: Is CPE scoping and researching working on gitlab upatream? Bc gitlab wont allow the import. pagure exports everything needed that i could see 13:36:05 sounds good 13:36:05 jwf: BUT PLEASE make it TIME ZONE FRIENDLY AS WELL :(( 13:36:16 00:00 is not cool :( 13:36:18 mizmo: I want to say yes, but my first conversation with them about it is next week. 13:36:49 OnuralpSezerhehi: Onuralp Sezer (he/him): Does this meeting time work well for you? The next meeting we will have at this time is in two weeks, on 20 December. 13:36:53 it just feels like going back on a decision we already made for low gain :-/ 13:36:56 I think some folks might already be offline by then. 13:36:58 jwf: yes 13:37:40 mizmo: Well, I think the pathway we are looking at for Mindshare is to do a manual move today, and when tooling is available, we import Pagure out to GitLab in that hypothetical Someday™ 13:37:58 Well, "today", "this month"… you get the idea. 13:38:17 jwf: ahhh ok. that sounds more reasonable. 13:38:28 i read this as blocking the move 13:38:51 apologies for misunderstandinf 13:38:51 Sooo… what do folks think about dedicating the 20 December meeting as a special agenda, where we jump on a call, set up a new repo, manually move issues and figure out labels and milestones, and call it a year after that 13:38:54 *? 13:39:07 I'll be there! 13:39:11 mizmo: All good! To be fair, the first question I asked was whether we should block on that or not. 13:39:19 i am likely out for xmas travel then 13:39:26 I will be there as well If I can 13:39:37 * I can (my job not block me( 13:39:40 * I can (my job not block me) 13:39:45 * I can (if my job not block me) 13:40:06 mizmo: I wish you best of fun and wishes already then :) 13:40:06 Máirín Duffy: Can you give us any big gotchas that you ran into? 13:40:24 davdunc[m: I was about to ask this too, I think this feedback would be helpful to take into account! 13:40:57 We really didnt run into any. 13:41:02 Ultimately, I think most of the activity on the call would be a bit of grunt work. But we could discuss asynchronously if there things we want set up in GitLab on Day 1. 13:41:04 and its been a few months now 13:41:26 mizmo: that's great news! 13:41:40 one thing we did was a git clone of the tickets repo so we had a backup copy of all attached files 13:41:45 jwf: I have one note about that 13:41:54 One thing I like (and I don't know who is managing these right now) is that every team automatically has milestones available that align to the various stages of the Fedora release cycle. 13:42:05 usernames maybe different so some people need to open up an account as well 13:42:11 that was my idea :-) ben is managing those 13:42:15 * as well or use that username 13:42:34 we were doing that manually in design then when the sched changed we had an issue so ben took it up 13:42:35 mizmo: Oh, hmmm. I wonder if we should do a clean break, or move gradually. I also have ulterior motives for data analysis explorations with tools like Cauldron (which is SUPER exciting that we can finally use tools like this on Fedora stuff) 13:42:47 Err, not move gradually. But import history. 13:42:51 It's still early… 13:43:01 what do you mean by import history 13:43:01 Context: https://cauldron.io/ 13:43:26 mizmo: I will try to explain it briefly in text, but it is a little lengthy :D 13:43:39 I am working with folks at RH OSPO to analyze and measure more Fedora community activity 13:43:48 Tools like Cauldron give us some data to work with from GitLab 13:43:58 AWESOMEEEE!!! 13:44:02 aha. I gotcha. 13:44:08 this will help us a lot 13:44:11 One thing I want is to be able to look back at data that sometimes spans even to 2008 since we imported Trac data from PAgure in many cases 13:44:23 The tricky part is if we duplicate history across repos 13:44:32 That is, we import the git repo history but not issues and PRs 13:44:42 If we do that later on, some filtering has to happen between what is past and what is new 13:44:51 It could get a little messy without a developer to help us do that filtering 13:45:12 bt0: bt0: Ohhhh yes. The CommOps metrics dream can live on :) Or, so I hope. 13:45:23 Yeah, so anyways, I am just thinking ahead 13:45:24 exactly 13:45:48 Whether we should do a clean break so it is easier to meausre past vs. present, or if it is just easier to have everything from Pagure git in GitLab git 13:46:01 Not sure if this is too much into the weeds, but yeah, I am trying to think more around this data analysis piece for 2023 13:46:22 I think a clean break is better, like a timezone change. 13:46:29 (If you haven't checked out Cauldron before, you totally should. It's super cool and uses the CHAOSS GrimoireLab stack under the hood) 13:46:50 davdunc[m: TBH that is the way I am leaning, but it depends a lot on getting that official importer someday :) 13:48:09 We have about 12 minutes left now, so I want to wrap up this discussion and then move to open floor if there are any pending topics. Let me do a quick summary for the minutes. 13:48:45 #info About going to GitLab, we agreed that moving now is better than moving later. If importer tooling becomes available later, great, we will use it. But we won't block on this. 13:49:30 #info We discussed using the 20 December meeting as a special agenda on an audio/video call to get us manually moved over. Setting up a repo, manually moving ongoing tickets, figuring out privileges, labels, milestones, etc. 13:49:52 #info Going into 2023, our primary workflow would be GitLab-based. 13:49:53 ack. 13:49:58 Does that feel like a fair summary? 13:50:32 I am aligned with that summary! 13:50:50 ack 13:50:56 Cool. 13:51:09 Then, last call before shifting to open floor? 13:51:11 Going once… 13:51:22 Going twice… 13:51:23 not from me 13:51:40 Going thrice… 13:51:52 * jwf knocks the gavel 13:51:57 #topic Open floor 13:51:57 :) 13:52:20 Justin I want Fedora workstation t-shirts please :)) 13:52:23 I lost 2 swags 13:52:28 Alrighty! We made it to the end. I know we didn't spend too much time on tickets, but it also is looking like 20 December will be a lot of that discussion too 13:52:28 on shipment 13:52:34 Does anyone have any specific topics to flag? 13:52:39 OnuralpSezerhehi: Oh no! 13:53:06 OnuralpSezerhehi: I have to figure out where those are or if any are left. I don't have them in my usual stores but I also vaguely recall this was handled outside of how we normally do swag. 13:53:06 jwf: I knocked out one more btw 13:53:21 jwf: Okay 13:53:39 For the record, I also want one of those shirts :) 13:53:46 davdunc: do you want more fancy t-shirt :)) 13:53:55 I saw mattdm wearing it once, and admittedly I was a little envious. 13:54:02 jwf: YESSSSSSSSS 13:54:02 Onuralp Sezer (he/him): always if fedora! 13:54:05 yess 13:54:10 davdunc[m: that one is soo cool 13:54:25 Justin W. Flory (he/him): please find those tshirts :) 13:54:45 Yeah. I am doing end of year swag work too, so it is good timing 13:54:53 jwf: wohooo 13:55:05 #info What happened to the remaining Workstation t-shirts? Are there more? We should find out and make sure they are properly stored in our inventory if any are left. 13:55:22 #action jwf Follow up with riecatnor to get historical context on what is up with the Workstation t-shirts 13:55:30 jwf: https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/347 13:55:41 #action jwf Update the 2022-12-20 meeting invite with a special agenda for migrating to GitLab 13:55:45 it happened! A ticket was filed! 13:56:35 Yeah, I see the ticket, now I have to find out where it all went inside of Red Hat swag machine. :D It is a tricky time because we are in the middle of a huge migration to a new way of sending/delivering swag 13:56:45 I think Marie can help steer me well there 13:56:51 So, hopefully I have an answer next week! 13:56:52 jwf: LOL 13:57:14 davdunc: we need to find that source of swag machine :) 13:57:18 riecatnor: can work miracles. :) She knows where the bodies are buried. 13:57:29 LOL :) 13:57:33 davdunc[m: Or in this case, the t-shirts 😂 13:57:43 exactly! 13:58:17 Justin W. Flory (he/him): bodies are so SUS (another among-us :) ) 13:58:26 Alrightyyyyy. We have a couple minutes left, but I think we can wrap here! Stay tuned for the updated meeting invite. It will be nice to finally orient ourselves to GitLab. 13:58:36 Thanks everyone for being here! 13:58:37 Justin W. Flory (he/him): thank you !! for meeting 13:58:46 Thank you all !! 13:58:51 see you :) 13:58:54 It definitely seems like we will need to find some better meeting times next year, this time seems lively but the other one is pretty quiet! 13:58:57 Looking forward to it! See you soon! 13:58:58 Until next time… 13:59:00 #endmeeting