13:08:38 <jwf> #startmeeting Fedora Mindshare Committee meeting - 2023-02-28
13:08:38 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Feb 28 13:08:38 2023 UTC.
13:08:38 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
13:08:38 <zodbot> The chair is jwf. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
13:08:38 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:08:38 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_mindshare_committee_meeting_-_2023-02-28'
13:08:44 <jwf> #meetingname mindshare
13:08:44 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare'
13:08:50 <jwf> #info About the Mindshare Committee: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/
13:08:53 <jwf> .members mindshare
13:08:57 <zodbot> jwf: Members of mindshare: jflory7, nb, duffy, thunderbirdtr, pbokoc, smeragoel, madelinepeck, ffmancera
13:09:09 <bt0> .fas bt0dotninja
13:09:10 <zodbot> bt0: b"bt0dotninja 'Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez' <hotgalan@gmail.com>"
13:09:11 <jwf> #topic Meeting structure & agenda
13:09:12 <jwf> #info === 1. Hellos & welcome (~5 minutes) ===
13:09:17 <jwf> #info === 2. Committee announcements & team read-outs (~5-10 minutes) ===
13:09:21 <jwf> #info === 3. Ticket-driven review & discussion (remaining time) ===
13:09:22 <jwf> #info === 4. Open floor (final 5 minutes) ===
13:09:29 <jwf> #topic Hellos & welcome
13:09:41 * jwf waves to bt0
13:09:42 <bt0> .hello bt0dotninja
13:09:47 <jwf> Always good to see you here, friend 🙂 A very early good morning to you!
13:09:47 <zodbot> bt0: bt0dotninja 'Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez' <hotgalan@gmail.com>
13:09:48 <bt0> hi :)
13:09:49 <jwf> #chair bt0
13:09:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: bt0 jwf
13:10:46 <davdunc[m> .hello2
13:10:48 <zodbot> davdunc[m: Error: Missing "]".  You may want to quote your arguments with double quotes in order to prevent extra brackets from being evaluated as nested commands.
13:10:50 <jwf> #chair davdunc
13:10:50 <zodbot> Current chairs: bt0 davdunc jwf
13:10:53 <OnuralpSezerhehi> .fas thunderbirdtr
13:10:53 <zodbot> OnuralpSezerhehi: b"thunderbirdtr 'Onuralp SEZER' <thunderbirdtr@gmail.com>"
13:10:55 <davdunc[m> .hello davdunc
13:10:55 <jwf> #chair Onuralp Sezer (he/him)
13:10:55 <zodbot> Current chairs: (he/him) Onuralp Sezer bt0 davdunc jwf
13:10:58 <zodbot> davdunc[m: davdunc 'David Duncan' <davdunc@amazon.com>
13:11:09 <jwf> OK, great. Let's get go ahead and get started.
13:11:32 <jwf> #topic Committee announcements & team read-outs
13:11:34 <jwf> I have two announcements today
13:12:07 <jwf> #info We have a new meeting day/time poll out. Please add your preferred times for a Mindshare meeting by this Friday, 3 March.
13:12:08 <jwf> #link https://whenisgood.net/fedora/mindshare/2023-team-meet
13:12:46 <jwf> #info After three long years, the Fedora community returned to FOSDEM in Brussels, Belgium this year. An event report is underway to summarize our presence and what happened for Fedora. Stay tuned for details.
13:14:00 <jwf> An aside to this is that I did not prep as thoroughly for FOSDEM as I would have liked with Mindshare processes. I missed some key approval guidelines and didn't set a good precedent there. For our future events, I intend to be aligned with the process we have defined for the whole community. There should not be a public and private process, and it was my oversight that might have made it seem like there were two competing processes.
13:14:12 <jwf> But, that is all I have.
13:14:32 <jwf> Any other news or announcements? What is happening in Fedora places you follow? Or anything new and exciting in the FOSS world?
13:15:09 <bt0> not from me
13:15:20 <OnuralpSezerhehi> Nothing from me
13:15:23 <OnuralpSezerhehi> atm
13:16:25 <jwf> Sure. Then we get jump to the tickets.
13:16:26 <jwf> #topic Ticket review
13:16:28 <jwf> #link https://gitlab.com/fedora/mindshare/home/-/issues
13:16:39 <jwf> Most active things are in GitLab, so let's start with that. I only see one ticket in Pagure.
13:17:02 <jwf> However, I have not figured out the right filter yet for tickets that should be discussed in meetings 🤔
13:17:10 <jwf> I'm wondering how other teams using GitLab are doing that…
13:17:31 <jwf> Anyways, just a minute while I refresh on the tickets pending a discussion or vote…
13:18:17 <jwf> I am counting four…
13:18:41 <jwf> 13, 8, 6, and 4
13:18:44 <jwf> Let's try those, and we can cover the one Pagure ticket after.
13:19:10 <jwf> #topic Issue #13: Sponsorship request: Linux App Summit 2023, Brno CZ
13:19:14 <jwf> #link https://gitlab.com/fedora/mindshare/home/-/issues/13
13:19:27 <jwf> This is a recent ticket with a sponsorship request, and one that is sort of timely, as the event is in April.
13:19:53 <jwf> I received an ask for us to sponsor Linux App Summit, as we have done in previous years. More details are in the issue. The biggest difference from past years is that we were asked to also have a booth.
13:20:42 <jwf> I understand there is a lot that is unclear with budget… I still don't have a budget in my hand yet, which is disappointing. But I am reasonable confidence to assume we will have the same budget that we have had in previous years.
13:21:10 <jwf> With that said, the guidance I was given is that generally, it is safe to "continue" events and sponsorships we have done in previous years, and "new" events or sponsorships should be given more review.
13:21:21 <jwf> Do any of you have questions about LAS 2023?
13:21:39 <jwf> Or is there anything I can share to make your vote more confident?
13:23:57 <bt0> not really, this event has good reports in the past, the Workstation WG make good job , im +1 , just we needd be more clear about the requeriments
13:23:59 <davdunc[m> I don't really have much on the summit.
13:24:20 <jwf> Generally, I feel +1 for pursuing a Champion sponsorship and working with our local Ambassadors on a booth
13:24:20 <davdunc[m> who are some of our participants?
13:24:20 <jwf> bt0: Curious to know more what you mean about being clear on requirements?
13:24:44 <jwf> davdunc: Participants for a Fedora booth or for the communities represented at LAS?
13:28:03 <davdunc[m> for the communities represented. Do we have some members who are doing talks? Are there members of our community that we want to ensure are speaking? Are there specific topics we want to deterministically identify?
13:28:07 <bt0> I mean Sponsor events is easy but selecting the level of sponsorship is difficult, so we need to set some rules or criteria to select it
13:28:35 <bt0> just like davdunc says
13:29:32 <davdunc[m> I see the work as integral to our user experience, sure, but what level we sponsor at should be driven by our expectation to participate.
13:29:39 <davdunc[m> Like, is someone in Neurofedora leading a packaging or design experience for Analysis?
13:30:19 <jwf> davdunc[m: davdunc: Good question. The communities there are GNOME and KDE, but I don't know about others. There are folks involved in Fedora Workstation and some local Ambassadors interested in repping Fedora there. It would be good to find out if we have accepted speakers or Fedora-friendly topics we could promote.
13:30:29 <jwf> bt0: bt0: This makes sense!
13:31:03 <davdunc[m> definitely think it makes sense to sponsor the event. We are heavy consumers. :)
13:31:33 <davdunc[m> and contributors of course.
13:31:36 <jwf> #info How are Fedora community members participating? Are there accepted Fedora speakers? What criteria should we use to decide our participation in this event? What local connections do we have?
13:31:42 <jwf> davdunc: for sure
13:31:52 <jwf> These are some useful reflections as we think more about events in general.
13:32:15 <davdunc[m> but the thing that makes me want to increase the sponsorship is a drive to introduce new work that wouldn't otherwise be highlighted.
13:34:02 <davdunc[m> For example, and this is just for the sake of making it easy for me to visualize, we might have a big container summit somewhere where Podman Desktop fits with the fedora management style and we don't have a talk, but we want to introduce it, so we sponsor at a higher level.
13:35:03 <davdunc[m> that way we get a session to introduce Podman Desktop and Fedora to users who might find it a benefit to their development experiene.
13:35:16 <davdunc[m> experience*
13:35:19 * jwf nods
13:35:50 <jwf> I like where you are going with this. There are some other challenges in getting the right content in place aligned with the event in question, but I guess that is part of what we are here to coordinate.
13:36:09 * jwf also feels like we need a Mindshare hackfest to work through some of these bigger-picture tasks too
13:36:39 <bt0> yeah
13:38:07 <jwf> So, we are over the 1/2 point for this meeting. Let me summarize for zodbot and then we can move to the next ticket. I am also thinking a new ticket to map what a hackfest might look like for Mindshare is useful too, but that should be driven separately from this meeting.
13:39:15 <davdunc[m> In this case, I think we want to really engage with the community to talk about Fedora as a development environment and a user experience. We need a booth at the minimum, but probably do not want the back left corner of the booths.
13:39:15 <jwf> #info Tying our event presences and sponsorships to areas of strategic focus for Fedora (e.g. #Strategy2028) should be an increasingly important part of selection criteria for events. This is an area where Mindshare could innovate for our community as in-person events come back into focus after the last three years.
13:39:28 <jwf> #info davdunc gives a pseudo example of a container summit where Podman Desktop plays an important role either in a booth or in an accepted session.
13:39:34 <davdunc[m> Justin W. Flory (he/him)++
13:39:36 <jwf> +1
13:39:51 <bt0> +1
13:40:00 <davdunc[m> +1 too.
13:40:00 <jwf> #action jwf Follow-up 1:1 with other Mindshare members for a vote on this specific ticket
13:40:27 <jwf> So, I think this next ticket ties into what we are just discussing
13:40:37 <jwf> And since there isn't a vote required for this one, some open-ended discussion and brainstorming is useful
13:40:42 <jwf> #topic Issue #8: Updating process for funding eligibility
13:40:47 <jwf> #link https://gitlab.com/fedora/mindshare/home/-/issues/8
13:40:52 <davdunc[m> maybe we can get the Marketing team engaged here.
13:41:25 <bt0> :D  sorry bad signal here
13:41:35 <jwf> davdunc[m: davdunc: Maybe you are watching Joseph Gayoso's read receipts here for this room? 😉
13:41:36 <jwf> There is some background context to why Marie opened this ticket way back.
13:41:37 <jwf> And while that is important for this ticket, I also think we can think beyond the original motivation for the ticket
13:41:56 <jwf> bt0: No worries! I didn't see that you dropped, hope everything is coming through.
13:42:51 <jwf> So, #8. This was opened because we have new steps to follow for anyone who gets travel & event funding from Fedora who is not employed by Red Hat. Even though Fedora has our own budget, this budget is given to us by Red Hat, and anyone who we sponsor for travel and events is reimbursed through Red Hat. Fedora doesn't have our own bank account or payroll. So…
13:43:08 <jwf> This means that when it comes to money, we have to follow the rules that Red Hat has to follow for money and sponsorship.
13:43:48 <jwf> Sadly, it means we have to add an extra step for non-Red Hatters to do a legal and background check. Red Hat has to do this because there are some situations where anti-bribery and corruption laws come into play, and this varies country by country. Phew.
13:44:06 <jwf> But this is more of a legal requirement, and we do have a process in place already for this. We did it at FOSDEM! Although it is not documented fully, and this is an action I need to take.
13:44:11 <jwf> But I wanted to open the discussion more broadly…
13:44:32 <jwf> Because we were just talking about selection criteria for events.
13:44:35 <davdunc[m> right, and we don't really have a budget that has a determined number on it so we don't know when we are actually running low.
13:45:01 <davdunc[m> @nb has mentioned this a couple of times.
13:45:23 <jwf> While we have some guidelines in place that people must be an Ambassador or Advocate to get different levels of funding, I am wondering whether it is clear for folks outside of Mindshare on how to make these requests or get Fedora support for local events.
13:45:45 <jwf> so I wanted to turn it back to you all on whether there are specific areas or places we could make this better?
13:46:24 <davdunc[m> Probably need a template for them to use in filing an issue?
13:46:36 <bt0> thta is agood start
13:46:47 <jwf> davdunc: Yes, and I agree with NB on that one too. Budget transparency is a project I want to work on this year, and I am hoping to get some extra support and help from my team on this too, because Red Hat also feels that it is important for the community to have this transparency too. It helps all of us be better at our job.
13:46:47 <davdunc[m> A gitlab template that provides them a lot of the requisite components by request could be really helpful.
13:47:12 <jwf> davdunc: To a degree, we have the Pagure template (which will eventually become a GitLab template, and sort of is in the event-requests repo). But maybe this could be organized better?
13:47:45 <davdunc[m> Justin W. Flory (he/him): I'll take a look when I return from out of the country.
13:47:51 <davdunc[m> this week.
13:49:50 <davdunc[m> maybe I can convert it.
13:50:12 <bt0> budget transparency will one of our more important objectives
13:50:32 <jwf> All good. As you are asking as a long-time Fedoran, that tells me it could use more guidance.
13:50:32 <jwf> bt0: +1…
13:50:35 <bt0> if we agree a format i con make a PR with it today
13:50:46 <bt0> *I can
13:51:19 <jwf> This makes me wonder whether an "Initiatives" tracker would be helpful to track our longer-term efforts and plans
13:51:41 <jwf> Similar to how DEI is doing it, and even Council to a lesser extent
13:51:44 <jwf> bt0: Let me take a look really quick on where things are.
13:53:38 <bt0> ok
13:53:59 <davdunc[m> Definitely a good idea to have the initiatives, almost as policy or documentation.
13:55:01 <jwf> So, there is this template, but it is messy. We had some people use it but the comments didn't work the way I thought they would. https://gitlab.com/fedora/mindshare/event-requests/-/blob/main/.gitlab/issue_templates/default.md
13:55:02 <jwf> I was hoping we might have forms in GitLab issues, but I don't think we do. https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/31575
13:55:47 <jwf> davdunc[m: davdunc: I could take some time out after my meetings today to spend time on the GitLab tracker and push some of these discussions into new issues
13:56:11 <jwf> I just realized that we are coming up on the end of the hour, and I have a hard stop today 🤔
13:56:43 <davdunc[m> sounds great.
13:56:55 <jwf> This meeting was not quite as laser-focused as some of our other ones, but that's OK. The biggest thing is that we get a new meeting time set once the Whenisgood is filled. I'll follow up 1:1 with folks on this one too.
13:56:59 <jwf> #topic Open floor
13:57:18 <jwf> Just wanted to leave a few minutes at the end for any other miscellanea?
13:57:25 <jwf> Anything that doesn't fit neatly into a ticket discussion?
13:58:33 <bt0> not here, I will migrate another set of tickets from pagure to gitlab this week
13:58:50 <jwf> bt0++
13:58:59 <jwf> This is really helping me a lot. Thanks for your efforts on that.
13:59:42 <jwf> OK, we are pretty much at the end of the slot. Let's wrap. Thanks all for being here. Enjoy the rest of your morning, afternoon, or evening! Take care 😃
13:59:49 <jwf> #endmeeting