13:00:26 <FranciscoD_> #startmeeting NeuroFedora - 2022-11-21
13:00:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 21 13:00:26 2022 UTC.
13:00:26 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
13:00:26 <zodbot> The chair is FranciscoD_. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
13:00:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:00:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'neurofedora_-_2022-11-21'
13:00:32 <FranciscoD_> #meetingname neurofedora
13:00:32 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'neurofedora'
13:00:41 <FranciscoD_> #info Agenda for meeting is here on our blog: https://neuroblog.fedoraproject.org/2022/11/21/next-open-neurofedora-meeting-21-november-1300-utc.html
13:00:58 <FranciscoD_> #topic New introductions and roll call
13:01:04 <FranciscoD_> if there are any new folks here, please feel free to introduce yourselves :)
13:01:18 <FranciscoD_> We'll also wait ~5 minutes here for everyone to join the meeting
13:01:23 <FranciscoD_> .members neuro-sig
13:01:24 <zodbot> FranciscoD_: Members of neuro-sig: sagitter, ignatenkobrain, bt0dotninja, zbyszek, sergiopr, blackfile, ankursinha, lbazan, ilgrad, gicmo, alciregi, bizdelnick, nerdsville, mhough, victortyau, music, major, fangq, anilbey, iztokf, aekoroglu, gui1ty, shaneallcroft, hardeborlaa, mairacanal, vanessakris
13:01:41 <Penguinpee> .hello gui1ty
13:01:42 <zodbot> Penguinpee: gui1ty 'Sandro .' <gui1ty@penguinpee.nl>
13:01:50 <FranciscoD_> #chair Penguinpee
13:01:50 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD_ Penguinpee
13:02:11 <FranciscoD_> #chair vanessa_kris vivekdcn
13:02:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD_ Penguinpee vanessa_kris vivekdcn
13:02:48 <Penguinpee> I was out of town two weeks ago. Forgot to announce that in the meeting four weeks ago.
13:03:19 <oluyosola[m]> Hello
13:03:56 <vivekdcn[m]> Hi
13:06:01 <FranciscoD_> #chair oluyosola
13:06:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD_ Penguinpee oluyosola vanessa_kris vivekdcn
13:06:08 <FranciscoD_> hello oluyosola vivekdcn !
13:07:50 <FranciscoD_> We should do a quick round of introductions---it's been a while. I can start:
13:07:50 <FranciscoD_> hi folks! I'm Ankur. I work at UCL in London as a research scientist in the area of computational neuroscience. I've been a Fedora community member for a while and help with Ask Fedora, Fedora Join, and various package maintenance tasks which include NeuroFedora :)
13:08:31 <FranciscoD_> Penguinpee: oluyosola vivekdcn : please feel free to do short intros, just so we all know each other
13:10:47 <FranciscoD_> vanessa_kris: ^
13:10:47 <Penguinpee> Sure. I'm Sandro. I'm not a neuro scientist and not a lawyer ;) either. I'm interested in Python and help out with package reviews and packaging. I also contribute to badges.
13:11:03 <vivekdcn[m]> Hi,
13:11:03 <vivekdcn[m]> I'm Vivek. I'm a PhD scholar at Donders Centre for Neuroscience, Radboud University. I have been using fedora for quite long now and want to help the open source community and therefore I'm here.
13:11:03 <vanessa_kris[m]> Hello everyone, I'm vanessa Christopher,  Outreachy intern 2021/22 and I've been contributing to NeuroFedora since then.
13:11:35 <vanessa_kris[m]> hi vivekdcn Penguinpee Ankur Sinha (FranciscoD@fedora)
13:13:59 <oluyosola[m]> I am Oluyosola. Been around since Outreachy contribution 2021/2022
13:14:12 <FranciscoD_> welcome vivekdcn : I've interacted with Fleur at Donders before, and we do work with them for lots of our dayjob projects too. Would you know her by any chance? https://fleurzeldenrust.nl/about-me/
13:14:35 <FranciscoD_> hi oluyosola vanessa_kris Penguinpee : great to see you folks again :)
13:14:46 <vivekdcn[m]> FranciscoD_: Yes, we are in same department.
13:14:52 <FranciscoD_> ah, small world :)
13:15:18 <FranciscoD_> excellent, let's move on to our next topic
13:15:25 <FranciscoD_> #topic Tasks from last meeting
13:15:34 <FranciscoD_> #info Last meeting logs are here: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-neuro/2022-11-07/neurofedora.2022-11-07-13.01.html
13:15:39 <FranciscoD_> if you scroll down, you should see any action items
13:15:49 <FranciscoD_> Ah, no action items at last week's meeting. Awesome
13:15:57 <FranciscoD_> #info No pending tasks from last meeting
13:16:12 <FranciscoD_> #topic Open Pagure tickets
13:16:27 <FranciscoD_> #info Any tickets that need to be discussed can be tagged using the "next meeting" tag here: https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issues?status=Open&tags=S%3A+Next+meeting
13:16:53 <FranciscoD_> we do the reading list ticket in a separate topic. This week we've got this one to look at:  https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/534
13:17:12 <FranciscoD_> let's take a couple of minutes to go through the ticket to refresh our memories
13:18:41 <FranciscoD_> Penguinpee: what do you think we should do next about this? Is adding it to our documentation page about "excluded tools" sufficient perhaps?
13:19:13 <FranciscoD_> because realistically, packaging anything that's heavily CUDA/Nvidia dependent in a CPU only variant is probably not worth the work
13:20:20 <Penguinpee> I agree. I made that ticket as a sink. Any other package that depends on PyTorch can be closed as WONTFIX or BLOCKED by this ticket.
13:20:40 <FranciscoD_> OK, cool. Let me add us a few action items
13:21:01 <FranciscoD_> #action FranciscoD_ Penguinpee : add pytorch to list in docs https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/neurofedora/excludedtools/
13:21:22 <FranciscoD_> #action FranciscoD_ Penguinpee remove "next meeting" tag from #534
13:21:35 <FranciscoD_> #action FranciscoD_ note discussion on #534
13:21:42 <FranciscoD_> OK cool, let's proceed to the next topic
13:21:59 <FranciscoD_> #topic Neuro-SIG package health check
13:22:07 <FranciscoD_> #info All our packages can be seen on the packager dashboard here: https://packager-dashboard.fedoraproject.org/dashboard?groups=neuro-sig
13:23:12 <FranciscoD_> #info In general, we prioritise FTI/FTBFS (fails to install, fails to build from source) bugs because these usually mean our packages can not be used by Fedora users. Next, we look at bugs/CVEs (security issues); followed by version updates and other less important issues
13:23:50 <FranciscoD_> #info FTBFS/FTI packages are automatically removed (retired) if not fixed in a certain time. See the community policy for more information: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Fails_to_build_from_source_Fails_to_install/
13:24:47 <FranciscoD_> Note: if anyone has any questions/comments about anything at all, please just step right in.
13:24:59 <Penguinpee> I looked at pydeps a while ago. I feel it should be renamed. See: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2107836#c4
13:25:09 <oluyosola[m]> <FranciscoD_> "hi oluyosola vanessa_kris..." <- Thanks
13:25:58 <FranciscoD_> I see fewer FTBFS bugs, so that's good.
13:26:40 <FranciscoD_> I see python-mne is FTBFS on s390x, but that's because its dependencies are not available on this architecture. So we probably need to add `ExcludeArch: s390x` to python-mne also
13:27:08 <Penguinpee> I haven't had any response from the pydeps maintainer, though. Shall I proceed or nudge the maintainer again?
13:27:09 <FranciscoD_> although it does have the dependency conditionaised: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python-mne/blob/rawhide/f/python-mne.spec#_82
13:27:53 <FranciscoD_> Penguinpee: Sorry, I've forgotten: what was up with pydeps again?
13:28:38 <Penguinpee> The package name should be python3-pydeps and it's FTBFS for f35. The latter going away in a few weeks.
13:29:35 <FranciscoD_> I see the description says it's meant to be used via the `pydeps` command, so i think the packager has treated it as an app rather than a library
13:30:08 <FranciscoD_> python apps don't need their package names to be prefixed with `python-`:  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/Python/#_application_naming
13:31:00 <FranciscoD_> This is the bit in the spec that I'm referring to, folks:  https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/pydeps/blob/rawhide/f/pydeps.spec#_3
13:32:02 <Penguinpee> I see. My mistake. But no harm done, yet. I could proceed with merging my PR then for fixing the remaining FTBFS.
13:32:17 <FranciscoD_> #info python-mne does not depend on edflib etc on s390x and so should not be FTBFS on s390x
13:32:38 <FranciscoD_> Penguinpee: no worries, yeh, the PR looks good. I'll go give it a LGTM so you can proceed 👍️
13:34:55 <FranciscoD_> Done: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/pydeps/pull-request/1
13:35:05 <FranciscoD_> #action Penguinpee merge pydeps PR and continue
13:35:12 <FranciscoD_> I want to note, just so everyone is aware:
13:35:46 <FranciscoD_> #info For neuro-sig packages, we tend to wait for the primary maintainer for PRs that include larger changes. For simple ones, it's usually sufficient to just have another neuro-sig member review the PR and give a +1.
13:36:53 <FranciscoD_> #info The packages look pretty good otherwise. A number of packages have new versions out, so please do work on updating them as per the community policy: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Updates_Policy/
13:37:24 <FranciscoD_> #info please do open PRs if you're not the primary maintainer of a package---just ensures that CI is run, and that we all get notified about the change.
13:37:56 <FranciscoD_> I'll wait a couple of minutes for  any other packages folks want to discuss before moving on to the next topic
13:38:49 <Penguinpee> What do you think about my f36 update PR for openmeeg being closed without comment?
13:39:13 <Penguinpee> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/openmeeg/pull-request/3
13:41:04 <FranciscoD_> hrm, that's odd. It's up to the primary maintainer to accept PRs, but they do usually explain their reasoning
13:41:50 <FranciscoD_> are their any breaking changes between 2.4.x and 2.5.x?
13:42:21 <Penguinpee> I thought it was by accident. But it's the f35 branch that has issues with tests, no f36. I'm not aware of breaking changes. Will check.
13:42:21 <FranciscoD_> Anything apart from the FTBFS that'll benefit users?
13:42:48 <FranciscoD_> The thing with the FTBFS reports on the dashboard is that they're pre-emptive, which is a good thing
13:43:02 <FranciscoD_> but once a Fedora release has been made, packages are not usually re-built unless they're being updated etc.
13:43:20 <FranciscoD_> So even if a package is FTBFS, if it's already been built and shipped in the repos, it doesn't affect users
13:43:26 <FranciscoD_> If that makes sense?
13:44:27 <FranciscoD_> So in openmeeg's case, it's already been built for F36 and users can use the version in the repos. It doesn't matter if it's currently FTBFS as reported by Koschei
13:44:59 <FranciscoD_> it's why FTBFS bugs in rawhide and the next coming Fedora release are slightly more important than FTBFS bugs in released Fedora versions
13:46:21 <FranciscoD_> This may be clearer than what I've said: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Updates_Policy/#philosophy
13:47:23 <Penguinpee> I understand. But it will come into effect when the package needs rebuilding and is not updated. It indicates a potential future conflict.
13:48:27 <Penguinpee> I can't find the changelog. So, still not sure if the update entails more than just bugfixes. Going by semver it shouldn't break anything.
13:49:14 <FranciscoD_> Yeh, it shouldnt. It's possible the maintainer does not wish to update the package from 2.4.x to 2.5.x in F36, and so the package may not be rebuilt in F36 for the rest of its cycle (which means the FTBFS may not happen).
13:49:41 <Penguinpee> Alright. Let's move on.
13:50:30 <FranciscoD_> You can certainly speak to them again if you wish, and they'll hopefully respond with a better explanation.
13:50:56 <FranciscoD_> #topic Open package reviews check
13:51:01 <Penguinpee> I'll let it mellow for a while longer. The f35 PR is still open...
13:51:43 <FranciscoD_> #info All team members packaging more software for inclusion in Fedora as part of the Neuro-SIG should block our tracker ticket so we're all notified of new package review requests:  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=fedora-neuro
13:52:04 <FranciscoD_> #info To see all open reviews, head to the tracker ticket and look for the "depends on" field. You may need to click the "show advanced fields" button first to make it visible
13:53:01 <FranciscoD_> #info only the one open review ticket, already being reviewed: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2144033
13:53:38 <FranciscoD_> #topic CompNeuro ISO compose check
13:53:53 <FranciscoD_> #info We check to see if the CompNeuro Spin ISO is building correctly here: https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=30691
13:54:10 <FranciscoD_> #info the spin can be downloaded here: https://labs.fedoraproject.org/en/comp-neuro/
13:54:37 <FranciscoD_> #info F37 is released, compose for rawhide (what will become F38) building fine. Green ticks everywhere :)
13:55:23 <FranciscoD_> #topic Neuroscience query of the week
13:56:13 <FranciscoD_> #info If there's anything neurosciencey (or just interesting general sciency) that you would like to share with the team, please either put it on the pagure ticket or share it now during the meeting: https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/318
13:56:36 * FranciscoD_ takes a quick look at the planet
13:56:55 <FranciscoD_> #info Collection of RSS feeds from various blogs: planet neuroscientists: https://neuroblog.fedoraproject.org/planet-neuroscientists/
13:57:11 <FranciscoD_> #info collection of RSS feeds from various journals: planet neuroscience: https://neuroblog.fedoraproject.org/planet-neuroscience/
13:58:11 <FranciscoD_> This seems interesting:  https://www.sciencenews.org/article/louis-pasteur-transformed-health-disease-microbiology
13:59:24 <vivekdcn[m]> Was reading this:
13:59:24 <vivekdcn[m]> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-021-01161-1
13:59:24 <vivekdcn[m]> and realised we do not have any good resources for neurostimulation on neuro fedora.
14:00:01 <FranciscoD_> interesting---are there FOSS software tools for this?
14:00:16 <vivekdcn[m]> Not sure.
14:00:26 <FranciscoD_> because---Fedora (and so NeuroFedora or any other SIG) does not develop software. If there's software out there, we take it and package it up for use by Fedora users
14:00:52 <vivekdcn[m]> Alright, I can take a look on that.
14:00:55 <FranciscoD_> OK, if you find any FOSS tools, please open new tickets for them on our tracker and we'll package them up:  https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issues
14:01:15 <FranciscoD_> #action vivekdcn open tickets for neurostimulation related software that we can include
14:01:23 <vivekdcn[m]> Great, I look for existing repos.
14:01:28 <FranciscoD_> do you have a fedora account already vivekdcn ?
14:01:38 <vivekdcn[m]> Yes.
14:01:45 <FranciscoD_> if yes, what's your username? I can add you to our pagure group to start with at least
14:01:51 <vivekdcn[m]> viveks
14:01:57 <FranciscoD_> give me one minute
14:02:00 <FranciscoD_> .fasinfo viveks
14:02:01 <zodbot> FranciscoD_: User: viveks, Name: Vivek Sharma, Email: vivek.sharma1510@gmail.com, Creation: 2017-01-25T18:02:55, IRC Nicks: None, Timezone: Europe/Amsterdam, Locale: nl-NL, GPG Key IDs: None, Status: None
14:02:04 <zodbot> FranciscoD_: Groups:
14:02:42 <FranciscoD_> ah, you're already there: https://pagure.io/group/neuro-sig
14:02:44 <vivekdcn[m]> yes
14:02:47 <FranciscoD_> so you should be able to create new tickets and modify their metadata etc.
14:03:10 <FranciscoD_> and if you do want to get into packaging, let us know and we can help---a few of us are sponsors to the packaging team
14:04:19 <vivekdcn[m]> Alright, First I'll create a ticket and pool the resources.
14:05:01 <FranciscoD_> Awesome: if you find any FOSS software at all that should be packaged, please open a ticket for it
14:05:18 <FranciscoD_> #topic Next meeting, day, time, chair
14:05:28 <FranciscoD_> we can have one more meeting this year on Dec 5 I guess
14:05:40 <FranciscoD_> then the holidays start, so we'll restart in january
14:05:54 <FranciscoD_> Sound good to folks? Next meeting in 2 weeks on Dec 5 at 1300 UTC
14:06:07 <FranciscoD_> Anyone want to chair (I'l always here as backup/default)
14:07:17 <FranciscoD_> #agreed Next meeting in 2 weeks on Dec 5 at 1300 UTC
14:07:23 <FranciscoD_> #action FranciscoD_ chair next meeting
14:07:28 <FranciscoD_> #action FranciscoD_ send out meeting logs
14:07:32 <FranciscoD_> OK, that's the end of our agenda.
14:07:56 <FranciscoD_> We've crossed the one hour mark, so I'll skip "open floor" today, but we can keep chatting after I've closed the meeting too, of course.
14:07:57 <FranciscoD_> #endmeeting