13:13:06 <FranciscoD_> #startmeeting NeuroFedora - 2023-03-13
13:13:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar 13 13:13:06 2023 UTC.
13:13:06 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
13:13:06 <zodbot> The chair is FranciscoD_. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
13:13:06 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:13:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'neurofedora_-_2023-03-13'
13:13:12 <FranciscoD_> #meetingname neurofedora
13:13:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'neurofedora'
13:13:39 <FranciscoD_> #info Meeting bot guide is here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Guide#MeetBot_Commands
13:13:45 <music[m]> .hello music
13:13:46 <zodbot> music[m]: music 'Benjamin Beasley' <code@musicinmybrain.net>
13:13:58 <FranciscoD_> #info Agenda is here: https://neuroblog.fedoraproject.org/
13:13:59 <FranciscoD_> #topic Intros and roll call
13:14:01 <FranciscoD_> hi music !
13:14:13 <FranciscoD_> sorry, I totally missed the reminder---was busy tinkering with other things! XD
13:14:16 <FranciscoD_> .hello ankursinha
13:14:17 <zodbot> FranciscoD_: ankursinha 'Ankur Sinha' <sanjay.ankur@gmail.com>
13:14:20 <FranciscoD_> #chair music
13:14:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD_ music
13:14:42 <FranciscoD_> #info Agenda is here: https://neuroblog.fedoraproject.org/2023/03/13/next-open-neurofedora-meeting-13-March-1300-utc.html (rather)
13:15:48 <FranciscoD_> #chair aekoroglu  @achilleas @davdunc @davdunc @HafsatAjia-Egbey @kamdard_ @lbazan @major @zbyszek[m] @principis @omnidapps2 @omnidapps1 @mnidapps[m]
13:15:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: @HafsatAjia-Egbey @achilleas @davdunc @kamdard_ @lbazan @major @mnidapps[m] @omnidapps1 @omnidapps2 @principis @zbyszek[m] FranciscoD_ aekoroglu music
13:16:07 <davdunc[m> .hello2 davdunc
13:16:07 <zodbot> davdunc[m: Error: Missing "]".  You may want to quote your arguments with double quotes in order to prevent extra brackets from being evaluated as nested commands.
13:16:14 <davdunc[m> .hello davdunc
13:16:15 <zodbot> davdunc[m: davdunc 'David Duncan' <davdunc@amazon.com>
13:16:22 <FranciscoD_> hi davdunc , thanks for coming :)
13:16:39 <FranciscoD_> let's wait another couple of minutes and then get started
13:16:44 <davdunc[m> hi Ankur Sinha (FranciscoD@fedora) thanks for making it happen!
13:17:23 <FranciscoD_> #topic tasks from last meeting
13:17:32 <FranciscoD_> #info Last meeting minutes are here: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-neuro/2023-02-27/neurofedora.2023-02-27-13.00.html
13:17:45 <FranciscoD_> there was only the one task:
13:17:50 <FranciscoD_> #info FranciscoD_ check if typing stub packages are required by packages for anything other than linting -> DONE
13:18:39 <FranciscoD_> #info for reference, the Python packaging guidelines suggest not running various linting etc. checks during the rpm build---these are good for upstream CI etc., but don't make sense to run during the rpm package buids. So, we strip/patch these out: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/Python/#_linters
13:20:13 <FranciscoD_> #topic Open pagure tickets
13:20:42 <FranciscoD_> #info https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/538: Issue #538: NeuroFedora mastodon account?
13:20:55 <FranciscoD_> I think using the #NeuroFedora hashtag is fine for the moment
13:21:19 <FranciscoD_> We don't have enough activity there to merit an account:
13:21:28 <FranciscoD_> #info Follow #NeuroFedora on mastodon: https://fosstodon.org/tags/neurofedora
13:22:06 <FranciscoD_> #action FranciscoD_ comment on ticket to note that we'll use #NeuroFedora for mastodon
13:22:15 <FranciscoD_> #action FranciscoD_ update docs to mention #NeuroFedora on mastodon
13:22:17 <davdunc[m> ooh! I'll do that now.
13:22:58 <FranciscoD_> what's your mastodon profile davdunc ? Mine's `@sanjay_ankur@fosstodon.org`
13:23:06 <FranciscoD_> those are all the tickets
13:23:10 <FranciscoD_> #topic Package health check
13:23:21 <FranciscoD_> #info Neuro-sig packager dashboard is here: https://packager-dashboard.fedoraproject.org/dashboard?groups=neuro-sig
13:24:18 <FranciscoD_> #info We prioritise FTBFS(Fails to build from source)/FTI(fails to install)/CVE(security) bugs, then other bugs/enhancements, and then updates to new releases/versions
13:25:37 <FranciscoD_> #info we have a few packages failing to build with py 3.12 (which will be default in Fedora 39)
13:25:48 <FranciscoD_> music: thanks for taking care of a lot of these already
13:26:03 <music[m]> 👍️
13:26:07 <davdunc[m> music++
13:26:07 <zodbot> davdunc[m: Karma for music changed to 2 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:26:42 <music[m]> If someone runs across one with a nonobvious fix, or needs help testing, feel free to pull me in.
13:27:29 <FranciscoD_> excellent, thanks for that :)
13:27:32 <FranciscoD_> music++
13:27:32 <zodbot> FranciscoD_: Karma for music changed to 3 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:28:13 <FranciscoD_> #info we have a few FTBFS bugs, these should be prioritised
13:28:24 <FranciscoD_> #info No FTI bugs
13:28:57 <Penguinpee> .hello gui1ty
13:28:58 <zodbot> Penguinpee: gui1ty 'Sandro .' <gui1ty@penguinpee.nl>
13:29:11 <Penguinpee> Sorry for being late. Got sidetracked.
13:29:23 <FranciscoD_> there are a set of CVEs related to iv and libtiff, but since iv is pretty much deprecated and only used by NEURON, there aren't very high on my radar
13:29:40 <FranciscoD_> #chair Penguinpee
13:29:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: @HafsatAjia-Egbey @achilleas @davdunc @kamdard_ @lbazan @major @mnidapps[m] @omnidapps1 @omnidapps2 @principis @zbyszek[m] FranciscoD_ Penguinpee aekoroglu music
13:30:00 <FranciscoD_> hi Penguinpee , no worries, I got distracted and started the meeting 15 minutes late too XD
13:30:24 <Penguinpee> ;)
13:31:27 <Penguinpee> I saw the reminder and thought: "Wow, has it been two weeks already?"
13:32:17 <FranciscoD_> yeh, time flies!
13:32:30 <FranciscoD_> So with the iv CVEs, I am loooking at this one: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2112759
13:33:36 <FranciscoD_> question 1: is this in iv or in libtiff?
13:33:51 <FranciscoD_> https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2022-34526 -> reported upstream to libtiff?
13:34:19 <FranciscoD_> and https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2112756 -> closed as "not a bug"
13:34:38 <FranciscoD_> so, should 2112759 also be closed? 🤔
13:34:40 <Penguinpee> Since the tracking bug seems to be closed, isn't it just a matter of rebuilding for the fixed libtiff?
13:35:11 <FranciscoD_> not sure tbh, the tracker bug does not have anything in the "fixed in version" field
13:35:14 <music[m]> There should be no need to rebuild if libtiff were linked dynamically and fixed without changing ABI.
13:35:26 <music[m]> It looks like iv might bundle libtiff.
13:35:47 <music[m]> iv-14890c412662cd7d0c4bce1d777473a904168647/src/lib/TIFF/
13:36:06 <music[m]> That appears to be libtiff 3.00.
13:36:32 <FranciscoD_> yeh, I did file an issue upstream about it, but I've not looked into unbunldling in since:
13:36:32 <FranciscoD_> https://github.com/neuronsimulator/iv/issues/3
13:36:36 <FranciscoD_> *unbundling
13:36:43 <Penguinpee> So, iv still needs to be fixed. Is it an option to link that to libtiff instead?
13:37:07 <FranciscoD_> yes, ideally, libtiff should be unbundled, but iv is such old code that it may not be a trivial undertaking..
13:37:31 <music[m]> It’s the best option, depending on how hard it is to beat the build system into submission, and assuming they haven’t patched their vendored copy.
13:38:04 <Penguinpee> Worth a try at least. Bundling is evil! ;)
13:38:29 <FranciscoD_> yeh, the current version of libtiff in Fedora is 4x, so there'll definitely be some changes
13:38:51 <FranciscoD_> the libtiff in iv is from 15 years ago, and that's only what it says on GitHub: https://github.com/neuronsimulator/iv/tree/master/src/include
13:39:19 <FranciscoD_> anyone with the cycles to give this a go? :)
13:39:19 <Penguinpee> Jaysus!
13:39:46 <Penguinpee> I can give it a go. Have to make up for not being very helpful the past weeks... ;)
13:40:10 <music[m]> https://github.com/neuronsimulator/iv/issues/3
13:40:17 <FranciscoD_> the good thing is that it's only used by iv, and it does not provide the libtiff libraries etc. --- so no other package can use it
13:40:38 <FranciscoD_> yeh, music I'd filed the issue when we'd packaged neuron initially, but never got down to unbundling/updating it
13:41:44 <music[m]> The ideal fix would probably be a PR upstream that add a CMake option like IV_SYSTEM_LIBTIFF.
13:41:57 <FranciscoD_> my comment indicates that I did try to build with 4.x all that time ago, and it didn't work
13:42:37 <FranciscoD_> music: yeh, but if there are API/ABI changes, that option will have to propagate to the code too right? `#if IV_SYSTEM_LIBTIFF ..` types?
13:42:58 <music[m]> Yeah, I haven’t looked into it that far, but it’s possible.
13:43:12 <FranciscoD_> let me do a quick grep to see where it's used
13:43:17 <music[m]> Or the bundled libtiff could be upgraded to a recent version at the same time.
13:43:22 <Penguinpee> Let's see how far we get and what compilation errors we encounter. But having to patch a bundled library is awful.
13:43:24 <music[m]> The good news is it’s only used in ./src/lib/InterViews/tiff.cpp.
13:44:34 <FranciscoD_> yeh, seems to be limited to a couple of files or so
13:45:07 <music[m]> I have been consciously avoiding this issue, but now that we are actually working on it, Penguinpee, feel free to poke me if you need a second set of eyes.
13:45:39 <Penguinpee> Thanks music[m]! I'm sure you'll hear from me.
13:45:46 <FranciscoD_> https://paste.centos.org/view/c9729700
13:46:27 <FranciscoD_> https://paste.centos.org/view/c26fa976 -> with the TIFF includes removed
13:47:33 <music[m]> Oops, I missed the direct import in src/lib/Unidraw/import.cpp. Still, the interesting part is in src/lib/InterViews/tiff.cpp.
13:47:40 <FranciscoD_> Yeh, Penguinpee: actioning this to you, please let us know if we can help
13:48:06 <Penguinpee> I'll dive into it.
13:48:14 <FranciscoD_> #action Penguinpee work on unbundling libtiff from iv
13:49:41 <FranciscoD_> I think the packages are in good shape otherwise, please keep working on the various bugs, of course
13:50:17 <FranciscoD_> #info Neuro-sig packages in good shape, but please keep working on bugs/updates-> please open PRs if you're not the primary maintainer and you'd like someone to take a quick look at the PR before merging
13:50:48 <FranciscoD_> #topic  Open reviews
13:51:05 <FranciscoD_> #info please look at our "tracker" bug here, all neuro-sig package reviews should "block" it: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=fedora-neuro
13:51:17 <FranciscoD_> so, please look at bugs that this tracker bug "depends on"
13:51:52 <FranciscoD_> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2165669 -> Penguinpee , sorry for the delay, I've updated the spec/srpm here now
13:52:14 <FranciscoD_> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2173665 -> sorry music , I'll update this in the next few days
13:52:28 <FranciscoD_> #action FranciscoD_ update https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2173665 as per review comments
13:52:48 <FranciscoD_> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2175182 -> review requires review
13:52:56 <FranciscoD_> #info https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2175182 -> looking for a reviewer
13:53:06 <music[m]> FranciscoD_: I’ll probably take several days to re-review it anyway. 😜
13:53:23 <FranciscoD_> music[m]: :D
13:53:57 <Penguinpee> I'll catch up on RHBZ#2165669. It fell through the cracks.
13:53:58 <FranciscoD_> I'll put python-intern through now
13:53:59 <FranciscoD_> #action FranciscoD_ review python-intern
13:54:35 <FranciscoD_> no worries, i was struggling to find time for packaging anyway, so all delays are welcome :P
13:54:58 <FranciscoD_> I do like the automated copr based fedora-review. i still do it again, but at least that ensures a scratch build works and all that
13:55:13 <Penguinpee> God thing I didn't say WHEN I'll catch up. ;P
13:55:30 <Penguinpee> *Good
13:55:40 <FranciscoD_> #topic Comp Neuro ISO check
13:55:52 <FranciscoD_> #info https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=30691 -> Comp Neuro ISO building fine
13:57:06 <FranciscoD_> #info F38 beta is go, to be shipped tomorrow: 14 march: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/6CCFZ6GXXDBV5AMXP37IPA2HNLMZJE4O/
13:57:42 <FranciscoD_> #info The F38 Final freeze begins Tuesday 4 April. (so if you want to push any updates, now is the time to do it :D)
13:58:06 <FranciscoD_> #topic Neuroscience query of the week
13:58:33 <FranciscoD_> there's not a lot apart from discussions around "ChatGPT" from the looks of it
14:00:05 <FranciscoD_> please share anything new on our ticket here:
14:00:29 <FranciscoD_> #info please share anything new on our ticket here:  https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/318
14:00:33 <Penguinpee> I'll pass on ChatGPT. Too much fuss about a parrot with a brain the size of the globe...
14:00:58 <FranciscoD_> yeh, lots of neuro/psycho-ethics discussions around that though
14:01:09 <FranciscoD_> "what do we mean by 'understanding'" and that sort of thing
14:02:02 <FranciscoD_> For example: https://mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu/pipermail/connectionists/2023-March/039422.html
14:02:16 <FranciscoD_> #topic Next meeting day, chair
14:02:47 <Penguinpee> I like to read about ChatGPT as in what is it and what not. But I pass on the usage experiments trying to prove it's intelligent.
14:02:50 <FranciscoD_> 27 March, 1300 work for folks?
14:03:18 <Penguinpee> Works for me.
14:03:28 <FranciscoD_> yeh, it seems to descend into a discussion on definition quite quickly: "what is intelligent"
14:03:32 <FranciscoD_> cool, I can chair
14:03:42 <FranciscoD_> #action FranciscoD_ to chair next meeting at 1300 UTC on 27 March
14:03:52 <FranciscoD_> #topic Open floor
14:04:00 <FranciscoD_> Anything that wasn't discussed can go here :)
14:05:19 <Penguinpee> Open floor? 💃 🕺 🪩 😆
14:05:33 <FranciscoD_> (or I'll close the meeting in ~2 minutes, and we can continue chatting away)
14:05:38 <FranciscoD_> LOL, exactly 💃
14:05:52 <davdunc[m> Thanks for chairing the meeting Ankur Sinha (FranciscoD@fedora)
14:06:06 <FranciscoD_> no worries, happy to, thanks for coming :)
14:06:58 <FranciscoD_> PS: I'm planning to go to CNS this year in Leipzig: https://www.cnsorg.org/cns-2023-quick
14:07:27 <FranciscoD_> I was thinking of us doing a poster on NeuroFedora, but we did one last time and don't really have a "new scientific result", so i thought we'd skip it this year
14:08:05 <FranciscoD_> We should write a paper at some point, like the neurodebian one. Maybe towards the end of the year (I'm working on another paper and then a grant, so not much time to write anything else :/)
14:08:36 <FranciscoD_> #info NeuroDebian paper: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fninf.2012.00022/full
14:08:51 <Penguinpee> Enjoy Leipzig! I hope you get your visa in time.
14:09:09 <FranciscoD_> yeh, I'm going to apply in the next few weeks to get an appointment etc.
14:09:12 <FranciscoD_> 🤞
14:09:28 <FranciscoD_> OK, let's close, and continue chatting outside of the meeting then
14:09:29 <FranciscoD_> #endmeeting