#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:01:49

!startmeeting NeuroFedora - 2024-02-12

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

13:01:50

Meeting started at 2024-02-12 13:01:49 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

13:01:50

The Meeting name is 'NeuroFedora - 2024-02-12'

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:01:59

!meetingname neurofedora

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:02:24

!info Agenda is here: https://neuroblog.fedoraproject.org/2024/02/12/next-open-neurofedora-meeting-12-february-1300-utc.html

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:02:30

!halp

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:02:58

!hi as well

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

13:02:58

Sorry, I can only look up one username at a time

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:03:09

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

13:03:10

Sandro . (gui1ty)

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:03:16

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

13:03:17

Ankur Sinha (ankursinha) - he / him / his

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:03:24

let's wait a few minutes

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:04:05

It seems they actually implemented the command with a typo `!halp` not `!help`.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:04:33

probably not a typo, but I'm not sure of why it's halp instead of help

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:04:44

maybe other bots already use help etc

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:05:22

Yeah, zodbot most likely already claims it.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:07:57

!topic Tasks from last meeting

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:08:13

!info logs from last meeting are here: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/meeting_matrix_fedoraproject-org/2024-01-29/neurofedora.2024-01-29-13.01.html

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:08:32

Penguinpee speak to design/mindshare etc. about unique logos for the meeting rooms on matrix to make it easier for folks to get to them

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:08:38

any update on this Penguinpee ?

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:09:24

Noop. I'm still on it though.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:10:52

Cool, I'll reassign

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:11:07

!action Penguinpee speak to design/mindshare etc. about unique logos for the meeting rooms on matrix to make it easier for folks to get to them

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:11:20

everyone please look at https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/566 and see if you can help out with the compilation issues

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:11:26

this is the python-steps error,

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:11:36

let's reassign, I'll get to it after pynn, vxl

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:11:40

!action everyone please look at https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/566 and see if you can help out with the compilation issues

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:11:50

Ankur e-mail python-dev list about https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/563

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:12:00

I haven't mailed them yet, but i did look at pgadmin4 and all that

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:12:38

music: noted that pgadmin4 does not really address all the concerns noted in the thread: https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/563#comment-894678

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:12:42

I'm really confused at the moment

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:13:03

we're saying the scripts included in the nodejs guidelines aren't enough

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:13:16

but people are going ahead and using them and bundling all sorts of things anywa

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:13:17

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:13:32

I think we actually might need a definite answer from FESCo or whoever decides those matters.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:13:48

yeh, who would that be, though?

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:14:00

fesco or the packaging committee that writes the guidelines?

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:14:14

or legal even, given that bundling of non sources is probably a legal issue?

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:14:45

once we've figured out where to file the ticket, I'm happy to go and do the actual filing

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:14:55

I think both have a role in here. I'd take it to FESCo first. If they decide its FPC, go there.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:15:26

Cool, I'll file a ticket there then

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:15:38

!action Ankur: file ticket with fesco about nodejs etc.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:16:19

everyone retire/orphan python packages that bundle js etc. -> depends on the ticket, so leaving it for now

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:16:32

!topic Open pagure tickets

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:16:47

!info https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issues?status=Open&tags=S%3A+Next+meeting

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:17:58

!info https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/567 -> Issue #567: Set monitoring status in dist-git to "Monitoring" for packages using Packit: WIP

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:18:08

this one is ongoing, as we see more packages, we'll keep updating them

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:18:52

There's way too much duplicate scratch building going on atm. At least this reduces it a bit.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:19:22

yeh, updated those

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:19:37

Thanks!

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:19:42

I wonder if the addition of a packit config could automatically do it?

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:19:58

i.e., is it worth an RFE to packit or infra? 🤔

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:20:18

since we're not going to be the only folks caught in this transition

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:20:31

It's a permissions issue most likely. I'd rather go for an RFE giving ordinary admins the powers.

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:21:07

I can talk to the Packit folks.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:21:09

are you not able to do this if neuro-sig has admin rights on the package?

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:21:23

No. Only the main admin.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:21:29

that's annoying, yeh

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:21:32

could be another rfe

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:21:49

I think packit probably won't have admin rights on packages either, so it cannot update these settings

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:22:07

it's also related to zuul though, isn't it?

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:22:30

I'll talk to Packit folks. They may already have looked into it. If they cannot handle it, I'll talk to infra / apps folks.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:22:38

ah, no, zuul only comes in once the PR etc. is open

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:22:45

the scratch build bit is part of the new-hotness pipeline iirc

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:23:14

i.e., packit doesn't create the scratch build---zuul or fedora-ci does once the PR is opened

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:23:16

right>

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:23:18

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:23:35

Somehow, I could imagine Anitya checking for existence of `.packit.y[a]ml` and deciding if a build should be fired or not.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:23:44

yeh, that should be doable

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:24:12

cool, let's look into it a little and see if we can get this automated to ease the transition to packit

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:24:17

Make it an action item for me, please.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:24:57

!action Penguinpee look into the possibility of automatically disabling anitya scratch builds when packit is enabled (instead of us having to manually disable scratch builds for all repos)

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:25:21

no other tickets that are worth looking at---steps, vxl are WIP and we discussed the plotly/bokeh issue already

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:25:33

!topic Packages health check

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:25:40

!info the neuro sig packager dashboard is here: https://packager-dashboard.fedoraproject.org/dashboard?groups=neuro-sig

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:26:39

Ankur Sinha (FranciscoD@fedora) (he/him/his): You might wanna try `!link` for URLs. I believe that makes them clickable in the notes.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:27:23

cool

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:27:33

they're marked as LINKs in the notes already, but not clickable

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:27:50

back to packages

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:28:12

!info we have a few FTBFS bugs where packages have failed to build for F40: please prioritise these

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:29:16

!info a few packages have new releases available: please update these (and add packit configs too to make these updates easier in the future)

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:29:48

I don't see anything too urgent in there, though. What do you think Penguinpee ?

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:32:09

Not to my knowledge. But I keep finding the dashboard confusing. It has listings for packages I know are not FTBFS/FTI. So, I'd rather go by bug reports for the time being.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:34:17

so, the only thing I can think of is that when koschei detects a FTBFS, it shows up in the dashboard, but a bug isn't automatically opened

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:34:40

so the dashboard will report more FTBFS issues than open FTBFS bugs

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:35:30

Look at `python-lsp-server`. It has been on the board for being FTBS in F38. If you actually go to Koschei, it will show you the package is fine.

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:35:45

Look at `python-lsp-server`. It has been on the board for being FTBS in F38 for ages. If you actually go to Koschei, it will show you the package is fine.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:35:54

on all arches?

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:36:15

https://koschei.fedoraproject.org/package/python-lsp-server

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:36:25

!link https://koschei.fedoraproject.org/package/python-lsp-server

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:37:24

It's a `noarch` package

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:37:50

yeh, but that just means it can be built on any arched builder---it may still fail to build on particular arches

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:38:05

that's why we sometimes use archful builds even for noarch packages

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:38:12

but if koschei says it's OK, the dashboard should too

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:38:24

Sure. But how do I go from the dashboard to the failing build? I cannot, it seems.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:38:25

I don't know where else the dashboard gets info from

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:38:34

Yeh, it isn't clickable

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:38:42

I'll file a bug against the dashboard so folks can debug it

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:38:57

!action Ankur file issue against dashboard about FTBFS issues---python-lsp-server as example

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:39:11

!topic CompNeuro lab compose status check for Fedora 40/rawhide

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:39:17

!link https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=30691

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:39:27

Someone explained to me it has something to do with the GA repo and the updates repo. I forgot what exactly. But, as is, I don't find the dashboard very helpful.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:39:53

ah, if it's that sort of thing, I'm sure the dashboard can be improved to note this stuff

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:40:07

Oo, our compose is failing

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:40:17

IIRC, it came down to: if your package is broken upon release, it will stay that way.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:40:48

that's not very useful at all

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:41:00

let me file the issue and then we'll see what we want to do

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:41:14

```

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:41:25

``` DEBUG util.py:461: 2024-02-12 09:30:57,087: Problem: conflicting requests DEBUG util.py:461: 2024-02-12 09:30:57,087: - nothing provides libnestkernel.so.3()(64bit) needed by python3-pynn-0.11.0-3.fc40.x86_64 from anaconda DEBUG util.py:461: 2024-02-12 09:30:57,088: - nothing provides libnestutil.so.3()(64bit) needed by python3-pynn-0.11.0-3.fc40.x86_64 from anaconda DEBUG util.py:461: 2024-02-12 09:30:57,088: - nothing provides libnestkernel.so.3()(64bit) needed by python3-pynn-0.11.0-3.fc40.x86_64 from koji-override-0 DEBUG util.py:461: 2024-02-12 09:30:57,088: - nothing provides libnestutil.so.3()(64bit) needed by python3-pynn-0.11.0-3.fc40.x86_64 from koji-override-0 ```

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:41:42

so the pynn FTBFS is breaking our comp-neuro iso compose

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:41:51

I'll prioritise fixing pynn then

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:42:12

Ouch! That would be my fault for prematurely pushing nest.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:42:13

!action Ankur prioritise fixing and updating python-pynn FTBFS (since it breaks our comp-neuro iso image compose task)

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:42:36

nah, worst case scenario we drop pynn from the image and folks can install it later after install

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:42:44

that's if we can't fix it before the freeze---plenty of time yet

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:43:14

!topic Neuroscience query of the week

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:43:27

I'll try to avoid further breakage.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:43:41

we've got two "planets" that aggregate lots of neuroscience info for interested folks

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:43:56

!info https://neuroblog.fedoraproject.org/planet-neuroscientists/ collects lots of blogs etc., good for a general audience

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:44:17

!info https://neuroblog.fedoraproject.org/planet-neuroscience/ collects peer-reviewed (and pre-print) research journals

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:44:51

this seems cool:

<@music:fedora.im>

13:44:53

hello, i’m here now

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:45:02

!link https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-device-sense-temperature-prosthetic-hand-touch

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:46:00

!link https://www.sciencenews.org/article/mars-internet-communication-rover-psyche "How to build an internet on Mars"

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:46:41

!link https://womeninneuroscience.wixsite.com/winuk/post/new-neural-implant-translates-brainwaves-into-words-for-natural-communication

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:46:54

^from the "Women in neuroscience" community ^

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:48:01

!link https://www.sciencenews.org/article/saturn-moon-mimas-hidden-ocean "Saturn’s ‘Death Star’ moon might contain a hidden ocean"

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:48:07

Does it have to be pink, though? My eyes!

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:48:35

One for folks in the US/north america:

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:49:06

!link https://www.sciencenews.org/article/earthquakes-map-hazard-risks "Where are U.S. earthquakes most likely? A new map shows the hazard risks"

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:49:51

How about we send Elon on a mission. Two birds, one stone, kinda deal. 😁

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:50:42

one for dog lovers

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:50:54

!link https://www.sciencenews.org/article/dog-breed-life-span-united-kingdom "Explore the expected life spans of different dog breeds"

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:51:15

and a last one for engineers

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:51:27

!link https://www.sciencenews.org/article/nuts-bolts-book-engineering-technology "‘Nuts and Bolts’ showcases the 7 building blocks of modern engineering"

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:51:37

turned out there was quite a bit of general interest

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:52:01

oh, obligatory generative AI post

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:52:24

!link https://blog.allenai.org/hello-olmo-a-truly-open-llm-43f7e7359222 "Hello OLMo: A truly open LLM"

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:52:33

!link https://www.sciencenews.org/article/generative-ai-chatbots-chatgpt-safety-concerns

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:52:36

posts rather

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:53:20

I'm the proud owner of _The Rusty Nut Bible_. No kidding. It's the title of a very thorough and helpful book on not getting nuts when it comes to loosening nuts.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:54:31

next meeting in 2 weeks, same time?

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:54:47

Sounds good.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:55:07

!agreed Next meeting in 2 weeks on 26 Feb at 1300 UTC

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:55:13

!topic open floor

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:55:16

Anything else?

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:55:23

we've got ~5 minutes to go

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:56:22

I'm planning on writing a proposal for neuro-sig packages spec file guidelines. Something to streamline our spec files. I mentioned it in a ticket, but have yet to start on it.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:57:08

that sounds great, it can be part of our docs

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:57:48

ok, if there's nothing else, let's close

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:57:55

Oh, and `pyuca` can be untangled. Upstream will accept a PR fixing the licensing. Also on my todo-list.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:58:00

and we'll have 3 minutes to get tea/coffee before moving on to the next task

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:58:13

that'll be great---this is for spyder, right?

<@gui1ty:fedora.im>

13:58:42

Yes. Hopefully 6.x will get released before F40 comes out.

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:58:57

nice

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:59:02

closing now

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:59:08

we can continue chatting in our channel

<@ankursinha:fedora.im>

13:59:11

!endmeeting