2024-06-10 15:01:33 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !startmeeting Quality
2024-06-10 15:01:34 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-06-10 15:01:33 UTC
2024-06-10 15:01:35 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Quality'
2024-06-10 15:01:38 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call
2024-06-10 15:01:42 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !hi
2024-06-10 15:01:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Adam Williamson (adamwill) - he / him / his
2024-06-10 15:01:47 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hi folks, who's around for a quality meeting?
2024-06-10 15:01:53 <@tflink:fedora.im> !hello
2024-06-10 15:01:54 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Tim Flink (tflink)
2024-06-10 15:01:56 <@derekenz:fedora.im> !hi
2024-06-10 15:01:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Derek Enz (derekenz)
2024-06-10 15:02:00 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> !hi
2024-06-10 15:02:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen (nielsenb)
2024-06-10 15:02:22 <@adamwill:fedora.im> (that is, a meeting about quality. quality of meeting is not guaranteed. errors and omissions excepted. the state of california has not tested this meeting's impact on the health of children.)
2024-06-10 15:03:42 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> Aloha
2024-06-10 15:03:50 <@adamwill:fedora.im> (neither has the state of hawaii)
2024-06-10 15:05:45 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty, let's get going
2024-06-10 15:05:59 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Fedora 41 status
2024-06-10 15:06:12 <@adamwill:fedora.im> things still seem to be mostly smooth...new systemd and selinux-policy causing a few issues
2024-06-10 15:06:25 <@adamwill:fedora.im> python 3.13 will be coming up soon
2024-06-10 15:08:59 <@adamwill:fedora.im> there's a proposal to make anaconda a native wayland app which has implications for keyboard layouts and vnc on the installer images: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/L3GXMWJXUHAMOJJCJAD3QZSNXIXPR2HP/
2024-06-10 15:09:11 <@adamwill:fedora.im> and one to make the Workstation live wayland-only: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/H25H7CEETFMEICILNKL5ITTY3HLRGWHB/
2024-06-10 15:10:05 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> This will be the "new" Anaconda?
2024-06-10 15:10:17 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Old right? New is delayed until 42?
2024-06-10 15:11:41 <@tflink:fedora.im> i thought it was just the web based anaconda that was delayed to 42
2024-06-10 15:12:05 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Are any spins already using systemd-localed for guessing desired keyboard layout?
2024-06-10 15:12:07 <@adamwill:fedora.im> no, this is a different thing
2024-06-10 15:12:16 <@adamwill:fedora.im> this is making current anaconda wayland-native on the installer images. in f41.
2024-06-10 15:12:33 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen: not sure about that
2024-06-10 15:12:54 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> ha, seems likes fun :D
2024-06-10 15:13:05 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> ha, seems like fun :D
2024-06-10 15:13:14 <@adamwill:fedora.im> if we have quality concerns about any of these, we should get them in
2024-06-10 15:13:18 <@adamwill:fedora.im> can anyone think of anything?
2024-06-10 15:14:38 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> My "quality concern" is just hardware where wayland doesn't work for some reason, but regular testing should catch that, I don't think it's a special concern.
2024-06-10 15:14:51 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Same with keyboard really
2024-06-10 15:15:23 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> !hi
2024-06-10 15:15:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> František Zatloukal (frantisekz)
2024-06-10 15:15:44 <@kparal:matrix.org> this anaconda-native-on-wayland affects also netinst?
2024-06-10 15:15:52 <@derekenz:fedora.im> So no X11 support correct?
2024-06-10 15:15:55 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> should imo
2024-06-10 15:16:03 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Kamil Páral: it *mainly* affects netinst
2024-06-10 15:16:05 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> the change is about everything else than lives
2024-06-10 15:16:07 <@adamwill:fedora.im> (and server dvd)
2024-06-10 15:16:32 <@kparal:matrix.org> ok, in that case people with problematic hardware probably will have no fallback to install Fedora, right?
2024-06-10 15:16:44 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> they can use a live with xorg
2024-06-10 15:16:47 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> some spin
2024-06-10 15:16:56 <@adamwill:fedora.im> in theory yes, the question is whether there really is such "problematic" hardware any more
2024-06-10 15:17:02 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so problematic you can't run the installer
2024-06-10 15:17:12 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i know people complain a lot, but isn't it mainly about 3D acceleration support?
2024-06-10 15:17:26 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> as I understand it, on spins without wayland, it should continue to run as x app still
2024-06-10 15:17:31 <@adamwill:fedora.im> workstation live has defaulted to wayland even on nvidia for several releases, apparently
2024-06-10 15:17:57 <@adamwill:fedora.im> František Zatloukal: with the Workstation change, though, that's only non-blocking spins (neither KDE nor Workstation live will have X in 41)
2024-06-10 15:18:00 <@kparal:matrix.org> I thought the fallback path was still present
2024-06-10 15:18:07 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> or a text installation :D
2024-06-10 15:18:12 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Kamil Páral: it is, but it's a question of whether it actually gets used...
2024-06-10 15:18:38 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> *Looks nervously at broken Vulkan on Pi4*
2024-06-10 15:19:02 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Luckily doesn't use an installer I guess
2024-06-10 15:19:36 <@kparal:matrix.org> I don't have a problem with the change, it's needed sooner or later anyway, I'm just curious about any workarounds for people which have some issues
2024-06-10 15:19:45 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> you can take a look on wayland exceptions at https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gdm/-/blob/main/data/61-gdm.rules.in?ref_type=heads
2024-06-10 15:19:48 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> (fyi)
2024-06-10 15:21:14 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen: I'd say we'll rollback to ngl gtk renderer if the rpi4 issues aren't fixed in time for release
2024-06-10 15:21:28 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Looks like VM guests are excluded?
2024-06-10 15:21:49 <@adamwill:fedora.im> František Zatloukal: all i see there is "Hi1710 chipsets", and nomodeset without simple framebuffer (which i think doesn't apply to fedora), then a bunch of stuff specific to the proprietary driver (which would not be relevant here)
2024-06-10 15:22:40 <@kparal:matrix.org> VMs should be running on wayland, at least on my pc they are
2024-06-10 15:22:44 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh, and weird virt cases, yes.
2024-06-10 15:22:59 <@kparal:matrix.org> but a good question is vmware, virtualbox and others
2024-06-10 15:23:27 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> vms - just some cases, like pcie passthrough
2024-06-10 15:24:09 <@adamwill:fedora.im> also, the block labeled "# Disable wayland when there are multiple virtual gpus" doesn't actually...*do* it...
2024-06-10 15:24:44 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> It's aspirational
2024-06-10 15:24:58 <@adamwill:fedora.im> we do live qa in the quality meeting, folks
2024-06-10 15:25:01 <@adamwill:fedora.im> live and without a safety net
2024-06-10 15:25:24 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i guess we can ask the change maintainers if they've considered all these cases
2024-06-10 15:25:35 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i can write an email for that after the meeting
2024-06-10 15:26:25 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !action adamw to raise question of known cases where wayland doesn't work on the 'anaconda as native wayland app' and 'Workstation no X.org' changes
2024-06-10 15:27:45 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty, any other concerns about 41 at this point?
2024-06-10 15:29:07 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Has the revert to "old" anaconda made it yet? I've been out of the loop for a couple of weeks.
2024-06-10 15:29:17 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> it isn't planned afaik now
2024-06-10 15:29:25 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> it should happen after branch point
2024-06-10 15:29:34 <@adamwill:fedora.im> right, the plan is to leave new anaconda in rawhide and disable it in f41 after branching
2024-06-10 15:29:44 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Okay, awesome, thanks!
2024-06-10 15:30:07 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> there should be a big grub2 rebase coming
2024-06-10 15:30:11 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Was there some discussion on discourse about it? I can't find it now
2024-06-10 15:30:13 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> that can rough the waters
2024-06-10 15:31:05 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> I am not sure where I've seen it formally decided now
2024-06-10 15:31:19 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen: the revert plan for anaconda? no, it was discussed on matrix i think
2024-06-10 15:31:27 <@adamwill:fedora.im> there was some chat in the anaconda and workstation channels
2024-06-10 15:32:45 <@adamwill:fedora.im> František Zatloukal: fun. any idea on timing for that?
2024-06-10 15:33:05 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> idk, just seen the announcement
2024-06-10 15:33:09 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info Rawhide will keep anaconda web UI; the reversion to GTK UI for Fedora 41 will happen immediately after branching
2024-06-10 15:33:21 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> (from 2.06 to 2.12)
2024-06-10 15:33:40 <@adamwill:fedora.im> František Zatloukal: where did you see that?
2024-06-10 15:34:28 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> "GRUB2 rebase (from 2.06 to 2.12) landing soon on rawhide" on fedora-devel
2024-06-10 15:35:50 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh, from last month
2024-06-10 15:35:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> didn't catch that
2024-06-10 15:36:08 <@adamwill:fedora.im> good spot, that will indeed be interesting...
2024-06-10 15:37:33 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Test Day / community event status
2024-06-10 15:37:37 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Sumantro Mukherjee: around?
2024-06-10 15:39:48 <@adamwill:fedora.im> looks like sumantro isn't around, but i did see a big ticket dump
2024-06-10 15:40:38 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info upcoming test events for F41: https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/780 (IoT), https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/781 (CoreOS), https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/782 (GNOME), https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/783 (i18n). dates to come
2024-06-10 15:41:13 <@adamwill:fedora.im> anything else on this?
2024-06-10 15:43:40 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Not from me
2024-06-10 15:44:24 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> Not at the moment.
2024-06-10 15:44:29 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Open floor
2024-06-10 15:44:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty then, anything else on anything else? :D
2024-06-10 15:45:12 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> No, the one other question I had answered itself
2024-06-10 15:45:24 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ai questions, huh
2024-06-10 15:46:41 <@adamwill:fedora.im> well then, everyone gets 14 minutes back. you're welcome
2024-06-10 15:46:43 <@adamwill:fedora.im> thanks for coming, folks
2024-06-10 15:47:06 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> thanks Adam!
2024-06-10 15:47:14 <@derekenz:fedora.im> Thanks
2024-06-10 15:47:56 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !endmeeting