2024-09-16 15:00:46 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !startmeeting Quality
2024-09-16 15:00:48 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-09-16 15:00:46 UTC
2024-09-16 15:00:48 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Quality'
2024-09-16 15:00:51 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call
2024-09-16 15:01:36 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> !hi
2024-09-16 15:01:37 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen (nielsenb)
2024-09-16 15:01:49 <@derekenz:fedora.im> !hi
2024-09-16 15:01:49 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Derek Enz (derekenz)
2024-09-16 15:01:52 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> !hi
2024-09-16 15:01:53 <@zodbot:fedora.im> František Zatloukal (frantisekz)
2024-09-16 15:02:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> !hi 
2024-09-16 15:02:23 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Peter Boy (pboy)
2024-09-16 15:03:15 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hi hi hi
2024-09-16 15:03:18 <@adamwill:fedora.im> how's everyone doing
2024-09-16 15:03:43 <@derekenz:fedora.im> !good
2024-09-16 15:03:58 <@derekenz:fedora.im> you Adam?
2024-09-16 15:04:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> not too bad thanks
2024-09-16 15:05:17 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> not flooded, so fine 🤩🎉🎉
2024-09-16 15:05:23 <@adamwill:fedora.im> whew!
2024-09-16 15:05:29 <@adamwill:fedora.im> stay dry everybody
2024-09-16 15:05:49 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty, let's get started
2024-09-16 15:05:54 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Previous meeting follow-up
2024-09-16 15:06:29 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info "sumantrom to publish F40 community stats on commblog" - looks like that happened: https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/heroes-of-fedora-fedora-40-contributions/
2024-09-16 15:07:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> any other followup?
2024-09-16 15:09:11 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alright
2024-09-16 15:09:25 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Fedora 41 status
2024-09-16 15:09:41 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info Fedora 41 Beta-1.2 is signed off for release as Beta, will be released tomorrow
2024-09-16 15:10:12 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Woo
2024-09-16 15:11:24 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> with tiny bit of magic, waiving, and so on... business as usual for beta 
2024-09-16 15:13:29 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> hello
2024-09-16 15:14:21 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hi hi
2024-09-16 15:14:30 <@adamwill:fedora.im> it looks like we still need to add common issues posts
2024-09-16 15:15:14 <@adamwill:fedora.im> some are proposed, not sure if it's all of them
2024-09-16 15:15:29 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !action kparal and adamw to work on common issues ahead of Beta release tomorrow
2024-09-16 15:16:00 <@kparal:matrix.org> right, I forgot about them a bit
2024-09-16 15:17:14 <@adamwill:fedora.im> anything else on f41? any concerning issues or anything?
2024-09-16 15:18:40 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> just a note maybe, we still haven't got the gnome mega update since beta 
2024-09-16 15:18:51 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> that may come with bunch of new changes 
2024-09-16 15:18:52 <@pwhalen:fedora.im> One I ran into that I didnt see documented or discussed was - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2303727
2024-09-16 15:19:27 <@pwhalen:fedora.im> I wasn't able to pxe boot the Beta, had to replace the grub bits with the fix in rawhide
2024-09-16 15:19:39 <@adamwill:fedora.im> František Zatloukal: yeah, they didn't ask for an FE and i didn't suggest one, it was late
2024-09-16 15:20:59 <@adamwill:fedora.im> pwhalen: huh, openqa does test pxe on uefi and bios, it worked on x86_64...
2024-09-16 15:21:19 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ...and aarch64
2024-09-16 15:21:25 <@adamwill:fedora.im> https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/2873548
2024-09-16 15:21:35 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh, but that's showing grub 2.06
2024-09-16 15:21:37 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hum
2024-09-16 15:21:57 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ah, right, i remember now
2024-09-16 15:22:06 <@adamwill:fedora.im> we consider *client* PXE functionality as blocking, not *server*
2024-09-16 15:22:12 <@adamwill:fedora.im> the server is running on latest stable (f40)
2024-09-16 15:22:14 <@pwhalen:fedora.im> Right, I checked there too, I had to replace `/boot/efi/EFI/fedora/grubaa64.efi`
2024-09-16 15:23:26 <@pwhalen:fedora.im> @adamw ok, makes sense. We might want to document it , fix for final
2024-09-16 15:23:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> yeah, agreed
2024-09-16 15:25:36 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> aand obvious llvm update is coming sometime somewhen
2024-09-16 15:26:04 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> it's not in rawhide yet, but seems almost ready there... 
2024-09-16 15:26:05 <@adamwill:fedora.im> sure, i was getting bored
2024-09-16 15:26:23 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> note: i am rebuilding mesa there too
2024-09-16 15:26:23 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info pwhalen notes that PXE server functionality is broken in f41 (and rawhide) currently - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2303727
2024-09-16 15:26:34 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info fzatlouk notes that an LLVM rebuild will be coming
2024-09-16 15:26:40 <@frantisekz:fedora.im> to avoid needing to do a compat spirv-llvm every release 
2024-09-16 15:27:42 <@pwhalen:fedora.im> @adamw the latest grub2 in rawhide fixes the pxe issue 
2024-09-16 15:28:20 <@adamwill:fedora.im> pwhalen: it's a scratch build, afaict
2024-09-16 15:28:33 <@pwhalen:fedora.im> oh, sorry 
2024-09-16 15:28:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh no, hmm, i see it in koji
2024-09-16 15:28:38 <@adamwill:fedora.im> but not in bodhi
2024-09-16 15:28:39 <@adamwill:fedora.im> that's odd?
2024-09-16 15:28:44 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ah
2024-09-16 15:28:49 <@adamwill:fedora.im> https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=2543243
2024-09-16 15:29:02 <@adamwill:fedora.im> not a scratch build, but not tagged. it's tagged only for garbage collection.
2024-09-16 15:29:06 <@adamwill:fedora.im> wonder how that happened?
2024-09-16 15:29:14 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ohhh
2024-09-16 15:29:17 <@adamwill:fedora.im> maybe we untagged it
2024-09-16 15:29:35 <@adamwill:fedora.im> no...
2024-09-16 15:29:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> huh.
2024-09-16 15:30:50 <@adamwill:fedora.im> anyway, i've pinged leo
2024-09-16 15:30:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> anything else?
2024-09-16 15:31:22 <@pwhalen:fedora.im> thanks adamw, nothing else from me 
2024-09-16 15:32:43 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> I do not have anything.
2024-09-16 15:33:00 <@adamwill:fedora.im> okay then
2024-09-16 15:33:07 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Criteria ideas from Beta
2024-09-16 15:33:24 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so i totally meant to go back and look at the logs and remember what specifically we talked about here. and i didn't. go me
2024-09-16 15:33:55 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh, right, there's the upgrade criterion footnote we re-discovered
2024-09-16 15:34:37 <@adamwill:fedora.im> "The upgraded system must include all packages that would be present on the system after a default installation from install media, plus any packages the user previously had (minus any obsolete content)."
2024-09-16 15:34:42 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i'm gonna say we should remove or reword that
2024-09-16 15:34:59 <@adamwill:fedora.im> per Stephen Gallagher it was added during fedora.next to address a specific concern that upgrades might do the wrong thing
2024-09-16 15:35:36 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I agree it should at a minimum be reworded
2024-09-16 15:36:48 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> It doesn't really even make sense to me as is, what if a user had uninstalled things? Do they get reinstalled on update?
2024-09-16 15:36:54 <@adamwill:fedora.im> maybe we could reword it to "The upgrade process must not unnecessarily change the payload of the system (e.g. remove or add packages unless necessitated by dependencies and obsoletions)"
2024-09-16 15:37:22 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen: that actually gets a bit complicated iirc, but i don't think this wording is what we currently need to address it
2024-09-16 15:37:44 <@kparal:matrix.org> Wasn't the idea that upgraded system might not miss important new functionality present in fresh installs, i.e. new software etc must be pulled in through dependencies?
2024-09-16 15:38:18 <@adamwill:fedora.im> let me go read the reference stephen found again
2024-09-16 15:38:23 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I thought, based on the previous discussion, there was concern about the "edition" changing
2024-09-16 15:38:26 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> *late
2024-09-16 15:39:13 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen: right
2024-09-16 15:41:09 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hmm, https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/test@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/5A3J4EEWUWGH7KO7LPOCUH6QT6DVP5QK/ seems to be the thread, though it's not got *all* the context
2024-09-16 15:41:27 <@adamwill:fedora.im> it cites https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1153813
2024-09-16 15:41:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so it definitely was tied to the Edition stuff
2024-09-16 15:43:06 <@adamwill:fedora.im> and there's the updates-testing thing, of course. do we want to add a criteria requirement that u-t be enabled at beta
2024-09-16 15:44:59 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> This was not a requirement yet?
2024-09-16 15:45:19 <@adamwill:fedora.im> no, as we noticed.
2024-09-16 15:45:30 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> I would support the idea that the repos would remain allowed according to the user's choice.
2024-09-16 15:45:33 <@adamwill:fedora.im> my position is that it's kinda intentional and fine, but we can talk about it :
2024-09-16 15:45:35 <@adamwill:fedora.im> my position is that it's kinda intentional and fine, but we can talk about it :D
2024-09-16 15:45:37 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> I thought UT was always enabled in beta
2024-09-16 15:45:42 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> s/allowed/set/
2024-09-16 15:45:47 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Sumantro Mukherjee: it is, but there isn't a rule that it has to be.
2024-09-16 15:45:54 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Sumantro Mukherjee: it is supposed to be, but there isn't a rule that it has to be.
2024-09-16 15:46:03 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> we really should put that in the rule then 
2024-09-16 15:46:21 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> if it didn't break anything until today, probably wont :)
2024-09-16 15:47:30 <@adamwill:fedora.im> my point is that it's not actually terrible if we forget to do it. all we have to do is ship a stable update that turns it on.
2024-09-16 15:47:42 <@adamwill:fedora.im> but if people want to add a criterion, i won't object
2024-09-16 15:48:42 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> it is not terrible, but it would be better if it was on by default 
2024-09-16 15:48:56 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> so, I would be in favour of a criterion
2024-09-16 15:49:14 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I would trade the criterion we were talking about updating or removing, for one with UT enabled
2024-09-16 15:49:18 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> :D
2024-09-16 15:49:45 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> I am in favor of the criterion 
2024-09-16 15:49:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> heh
2024-09-16 15:50:04 <@adamwill:fedora.im> does someone want to wordsmith a criterion, then, and send it to the list?
2024-09-16 15:50:46 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> I can volunteer
2024-09-16 15:50:51 <@adamwill:fedora.im> you could model it on the one for final that requires u-t not be enabled - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_41_Final_Release_Criteria#Release_identification
2024-09-16 15:51:05 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> awesome! thank you :)
2024-09-16 15:51:22 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !action sumantro to draft a beta criteria requiring updates-testing to be enabled
2024-09-16 15:51:43 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !action adamw and/or kparal to propose rewording of the beta upgrade criterion footnote about package sets
2024-09-16 15:52:02 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alright, any other criteria stuff?
2024-09-16 15:53:26 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ok
2024-09-16 15:53:31 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Test Day / community event status
2024-09-16 15:53:35 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Sumantro Mukherjee: where are we at?
2024-09-16 15:54:07 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> We had Tuned Test Day that happened https://testdays.fedoraproject.org/events/196
2024-09-16 15:54:25 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> significant participation , all good
2024-09-16 15:54:51 <@adamwill:fedora.im> awesome
2024-09-16 15:54:53 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> i18n is underway https://testdays.fedoraproject.org/events/195 .. all good for now
2024-09-16 15:55:18 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> fcos , virtualization, dnf plugins to follow
2024-09-16 15:55:24 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> I might have few others in the mix
2024-09-16 15:55:26 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info tuned test day happened last week - https://testdays.fedoraproject.org/events/196 , http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2024-09-09_Fedora_41_Tuned . participation was good
2024-09-16 15:55:38 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info i18n test week is underway now, join in at https://testdays.fedoraproject.org/events/195
2024-09-16 15:55:49 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info fcos, virtualization and dnf plugin test days are upcoming
2024-09-16 15:56:35 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> for community events, I am planning to do a onboarding call soon  
2024-09-16 15:56:48 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> I will call for whenisgood on test
2024-09-16 15:58:53 <@adamwill:fedora.im> thanks
2024-09-16 15:59:02 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info an onboarding call is coming soon also, look out for a test@ mail
2024-09-16 15:59:08 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Open floor
2024-09-16 15:59:10 <@adamwill:fedora.im> anything else, folks?
2024-09-16 15:59:15 <@adamwill:fedora.im> sorry, rushing as we have blocker review in one minute :)
2024-09-16 15:59:39 <@sumantrom:fedora.im> I will be around the blocker-review :D 
2024-09-16 16:01:17 <@adamwill:fedora.im> everyone over to #blocker-review:fedoraproject.org  then  :D
2024-09-16 16:01:20 <@adamwill:fedora.im> thanks for coming, folks
2024-09-16 18:10:37 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oops
2024-09-16 18:10:38 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !endmeeting