20:59:30 <dgilmore> #startmeeting
20:59:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Feb  4 20:59:30 2011 UTC.  The chair is dgilmore. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:59:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:59:40 <dgilmore> #meetingname releng
20:59:40 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'releng'
20:59:48 <dgilmore> #topic init
21:00:05 <dgilmore> ping anyone here for the releng meeting
21:01:14 <dgilmore> nirik: abadger1999: skvidal: notting; ox013
21:01:19 <skvidal> yes?
21:01:23 * skvidal is here
21:01:29 <dgilmore> skvidal: any interest in the releng meeting?
21:01:40 <skvidal> whatcha got?
21:01:56 <dgilmore> getting ready for F-15 alpha
21:02:07 * notting is here
21:03:40 * nirik is around
21:03:52 <nirik> I have a few items:
21:03:56 <dgilmore> lets get started
21:04:01 <nirik> * can we add xfce/lxde to the dvd.
21:04:11 <nirik> * 2 folks want to help out with overrides.
21:04:18 <dgilmore> #topic add xfce/lxde to the dvd
21:04:34 <notting> i don't know. can we?
21:04:42 <nirik> so, not sure how much space we have... but I think it shouldn't take too much.
21:04:53 <notting> (aka, test it, make sure it fits :) )
21:05:08 <dgilmore> as long as we can get it in under a dvd size im ok with it
21:05:36 <nirik> christoph identified a few things that we could possibly move off if needed:
21:05:39 <nirik> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/xfce/2011-January/000304.html
21:06:06 <dgilmore> nirik: ok so lets add it and see how we do
21:06:15 <dgilmore> and then do some pruning if needed
21:06:19 <nirik> ok. I'll be happy to work on making it fit.
21:06:36 <nirik> I thought we had some room, but it probibly all went away.
21:06:43 <dgilmore> i need to do some test composes
21:06:52 <dgilmore> so lets get it in before i do that
21:06:59 <nirik> ok, that would be great.
21:07:06 <nirik> is that in spin-kickstarts?
21:07:28 <dgilmore> #agreed we will work to get xfce and lxde on the install dvd
21:07:31 <dgilmore> nirik: yep
21:07:51 <dgilmore> #topic people helping with overrides
21:08:00 <notting> although... does this mean that rel-eng is in charge of designing the dvd 'spin'?
21:08:16 <dgilmore> notting: i thought we already were
21:08:31 <notting> that seems odd
21:08:40 <notting> what are we designing it for? :)
21:08:42 * abadger1999 here now
21:08:56 <nirik> notting: good question. ;)
21:09:11 <dgilmore> notting: well its not so much desiging it as putting bits on it
21:09:26 <nirik> people who wish to install from install media, not live spins...
21:10:03 <notting> right, but there has been some discussion about maybe making the DVD the default option. so i'm a little leery about us being the sole deciders if that's the case
21:10:21 <dgilmore> qa wants releng to make 4 desktop livecds for qa for alpha, beta and ga. i think its ok to include those 4 desktops on the install dvd
21:11:08 <nirik> notting: yeah, if that comes to pass perhaps it should be some higher level group, but not sure what.
21:11:18 <dgilmore> nirik: fesco
21:11:49 <nirik> could be I suppose.
21:11:59 <notting> not to mention assorted side discussions @ fudcon about how spins could work in the future. but i suspect we can burn that bridge when we come to it
21:12:03 <nirik> I guess the constraint is dvd size.
21:13:45 <dgilmore> so if nothing else what we consider the 4 official desktops, should be installable via the install media
21:13:58 <nirik> so, I think making this small change makes sense to me now... but if things change around, we should revisit.
21:14:08 <dgilmore> im fine with that
21:14:41 <notting> i'm not sure we've ever made that distinction, but... sure?
21:14:47 <dgilmore> nirik: CodeBlock was one person wanting to help with overrides right?
21:14:53 <dgilmore> who was the other?
21:14:59 * nirik goes to look.
21:15:51 <nirik> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/rel-eng/2011-January/011399.html
21:16:03 <nirik> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/rel-eng/2011-January/011405.html
21:16:06 <notting> i am all for people to help with buildroot overrides
21:16:11 <nirik> nb and tomspur
21:16:15 <notting> i am even more for someone to write an app to do it automatically
21:16:31 <nirik> yes, auto app would be great.
21:16:53 <nirik> perhaps with autoexpire. ;)
21:17:04 * dgilmore is all for the auto app with an auto expire
21:17:17 <tibbs> What kind of app?
21:17:20 <nirik> in the mean time, shall we have these 2 folks help out?
21:17:47 <tibbs> I like writing little utilities like that; let me know if I can help.
21:17:57 <skvidal> tibbs: there are 2 sides to the app
21:18:03 <nirik> tibbs: it needs to take a request for a buildroot override, make sure it looks sane, tag it in and after some time or when the update goes to stable, untags it.
21:18:11 <dgilmore> tibbs: something that lets them use fas credentials to request the override, applies it and then udoes it later
21:18:15 <skvidal> one side you populate the data in a web page (most likly)
21:18:25 <skvidal> the other side sucks the data out of the db and does the override
21:18:31 <skvidal> then expires the override after a bit
21:18:49 <tibbs> Don't want to derail your meeting, but it doesn't sound to terribly difficult.
21:18:56 <tibbs> too.
21:19:17 <dgilmore> tibbs: np
21:19:18 <skvidal> tibbs: it shouldn't be - just needs the time to do the app and stow the data
21:19:39 <nirik> dunno if we would want it also to do blocks and such...
21:19:47 <dgilmore> tibbs: id like it to keep track of who and when an override is created
21:19:55 <skvidal> tibbs: I started on something before the holiday break and then, like many things, got pushed onto other higher priority interrupts
21:20:04 <dgilmore> nirik: that really needs integrating into pkgdb
21:20:18 <nirik> dgilmore: true... and unblock with unretire
21:20:28 <dgilmore> yep
21:21:00 <dgilmore> nirik: i think im ok with granting override permissions
21:21:31 * nirik thinks nb and tomspur will do fine. I'll be happy to help them...
21:21:54 <dgilmore> ok for now ill give them override perms
21:22:04 <dgilmore> #topic releng apps
21:22:13 <nirik> dgilmore: shall I reply to them? or would you like to?
21:22:19 <dgilmore> so we have a few areas we could use some development work
21:22:24 <dgilmore> nirik: i will
21:22:38 <nirik> dgilmore: thanks.
21:23:29 <dgilmore> someone wanting to get started in releng could definetly help with doing some work on pkgdb to block and unblock pkgs,
21:23:43 <dgilmore> perhaps the override stuff could be added to bodhi
21:23:57 <dgilmore> create a update and have a checkbox for an override
21:24:01 <dgilmore> or some such thing
21:24:12 <dgilmore> or it could be stand alone
21:25:14 <dgilmore> there is lots of ways we could do it
21:25:43 * nirik nods
21:26:03 <dgilmore> #topic F-15 alpha
21:26:13 <dgilmore> so alpha is coming up very soon
21:26:51 <dgilmore> one of the things listed in the feature pages is a mass rebuild for gcc46
21:26:57 <nirik> and with it the f15 branch.
21:27:18 <notting> it would be polite to do the mass rebuild before the branch
21:27:25 <dgilmore> having spoken to jakub he said that gcc46 really doesnt require a mass rebuild
21:27:32 <dgilmore> notting: right
21:27:49 <dgilmore> i think that the xz changes might make it worth doing the mass rebuild
21:27:58 <dgilmore> but we will need to do it next week
21:28:09 <dgilmore> since mass branching is right around the corner
21:28:32 <nirik> which were the xz changes? newer version with different format?
21:28:42 <dgilmore> different format
21:29:09 <dgilmore> notting: do you know exactly what the xz format change was?
21:29:38 <notting> the output changed in a compatible way
21:29:45 <notting> i.e., old xz can read the output
21:29:52 <notting> but it's not byte-for-byte the same as what it used to produce
21:29:57 <notting> hence, deltas exploded
21:30:14 <dgilmore> ok
21:30:16 <nirik> so what does a rebuild there get us? deltas would still explode?
21:30:31 <dgilmore> nirik: updates wont explode
21:30:42 <notting> yes, that.
21:31:24 <dgilmore> if the original release has the old format and update the new format we wont be able to make a propper delta for an update
21:32:39 <dgilmore> 2011-02-15 is the alpha freeze date
21:32:58 <dgilmore> so we have about 10 days to do a mass rebuild
21:33:11 <nirik> right, so things that haven't been rebuilt since new xz won't get deltas in f15 updates...
21:33:32 <dgilmore> nirik: right
21:34:09 * nirik supposes thats worth it. But most things that get lots of updates and thus are good to have deltas of, already have rebuilt since then...
21:35:03 <nirik> I suppose we could also just target things that haven't already rebuilt.
21:35:11 <notting> do we have any other big changes (aside from boost?)
21:35:40 <nirik> 2010-10-25 was when the new xz landed.
21:35:40 <dgilmore> n	n				
21:36:20 <dgilmore> notting: boost gcc-4.6
21:36:43 <nirik> new rpm, but thats already in and doesn't need mass rebuild.
21:36:56 <tibbs> In theory....
21:37:36 <tibbs> I'm not sure anyone's comprehensively looked at how the new rpm's dependency generation works.
21:37:45 <tibbs> Well, how well it works.
21:38:26 <dgilmore> there could be some fun there
21:38:32 <dgilmore> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/15/FeatureList
21:38:49 <dgilmore> boost is listed as 40% complete
21:39:04 <dgilmore> which i would think makes it to early for a mass rebuild
21:39:21 <nirik> they are landing later today
21:39:24 <dgilmore> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/15/FeatureList Fedora 15 feature list
21:39:25 <nirik> they said on the devel list.
21:39:29 <dgilmore> nirik: ok
21:39:46 <nirik> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=2760766
21:41:07 <dgilmore> nirik: ok. cool
21:41:23 <dgilmore> so what are everyones thoughts on a mass rebuild starting monday
21:41:31 <abadger1999> fine with me
21:41:32 <dgilmore> it would be alot of work at short notice
21:42:46 <nirik> looks like about 1/2 the packages would need it...
21:42:49 <nirik> ish
21:43:08 * rbergeron needs to update that list and is doing it in short order here, btw.
21:43:19 * rbergeron is finally functional after fudcon! woot
21:43:39 <dgilmore> nirik: yeah. id have to write something this weekend to give us a list of things not built with the new xz or gcc-4.6
21:43:51 <dgilmore> to not build absolutely everything
21:44:27 <dgilmore> #info we will do a mass rebuild starting monday
21:44:49 <dgilmore> #tasks dennis to send out a notification to devel-announce@ after meeting
21:44:52 <nirik> yeah, looks like about ~5700 packages need rebuild for xz at least.
21:45:10 <dgilmore> #topic open floor
21:45:21 <dgilmore> anyone have anything they want to bring up?
21:46:05 * nirik has not got anything.
21:46:32 <dgilmore> ok ill close up in 30
21:47:57 <dgilmore> #endmeeting