16:03:22 <nirik> #startmeeting RELENG (2023-05-16)
16:03:22 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue May 16 16:03:22 2023 UTC.
16:03:22 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:03:22 <zodbot> The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
16:03:22 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:03:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'releng_(2023-05-16)'
16:03:23 <jnsamyak> 0/
16:03:23 <nirik> #meetingname releng
16:03:23 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'releng'
16:03:23 <nirik> #chair nirik sharkcz pbrobinson phsmoura dustymabe jednorozec
16:03:23 <zodbot> Current chairs: dustymabe jednorozec nirik pbrobinson phsmoura sharkcz
16:03:23 <nirik> #topic init process
16:04:10 <patrikp[m]> Good evening. 👋
16:04:32 <nirik> hello everyone
16:04:48 <nirik> hopefully jednorozec will be along soon...
16:05:41 <patrikp[m]> There is a possibility that he might currently be in transit.
16:05:59 <nirik> yeah, he was...
16:06:02 <jednorozec> hello
16:06:15 <nirik> hey
16:06:18 <jednorozec> train delays the usuall stuff
16:06:30 <abompard> Hey!
16:06:42 <nirik> hey. big crowd today!
16:07:01 <jnsamyak> I also cooked ramen for dinner
16:07:25 <jnsamyak> and meeting ;)
16:07:34 <nirik> nice
16:07:58 <nirik> 🍲
16:08:23 <nirik> anyhow, I had a few items...
16:09:13 <nirik> #topic toolbx container
16:09:20 <nirik> .releng 11399
16:09:21 <zodbot> nirik: Issue #11399: Add container/fedora-toolbox as a Fedora Linux 39 release-blocking deliverable - releng - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11399
16:09:49 <nirik> jednorozec: were you gonna look into adding this to pungi/composes?
16:10:28 <nirik> I think we pretty much need to to make it release blocking
16:10:37 <jednorozec> yes we do
16:12:16 <jednorozec> sorry all the animals are welcomiing me home
16:12:19 <nirik> anyhow, we should try and get it sooner rather than later... in case we need to adjust pungi or something.
16:12:24 <jednorozec> cats jumping on keyboard dog howling
16:12:27 <nirik> it's nice to be loved. ;)
16:12:56 <jednorozec> so I was going to work on the toolbox this week
16:13:14 <nirik> I was typing slow because a cat had immoblized one arm... she decided to go lay in the sun tho now. ;)
16:13:20 <nirik> cool.
16:13:26 <nirik> #topic builder upgrades
16:13:44 <nirik> I was just going to do builder upgrades in the outage tomorrow... unless I run out of time or something.
16:13:59 <nirik> is that ok? or did you want to do a seperate outage for them later and you do them?
16:14:14 <jednorozec> I dont mind
16:14:32 <jednorozec> maybe I can stick around and do the upgrades during outage?
16:15:08 <jednorozec> oh its 21 UTC so probably not :D
16:15:20 <nirik> also related. I just disabled all the a32 build vm's... and we can repave those bvmhost-a64's as buildhw builders at some point.
16:15:20 <nirik> sure, if you like! I secheduled it for 21UTC tho... so not sure if thats too late for you...
16:15:25 <nirik> yeah. ;(
16:15:35 <jednorozec> we will see
16:15:53 <jednorozec> finally armhf
16:16:29 <nirik> I think I had one other thing, but now I can't remember what it was.
16:17:12 <nirik> oh, that was it!
16:17:18 <nirik> #topic autosign
16:17:44 <nirik> I'm going to try and migrate from autosign01 (rhel8, old hardware) to autosign02 (rhel9, new hardware)... probibly next week?
16:18:11 <nirik> hopefully it will go smoothly... just a heads up. Should just be installing stuff and configuring and it should all just work.
16:18:19 <nirik> (famous last words)
16:18:54 <nirik> Thats all I had off hand... you have any topics jednorozec? or should we triage some old tickets? or just open floor it?
16:19:03 <jednorozec> .releng 11422
16:19:04 <zodbot> jednorozec: Issue #11422: Please send openh264-2.3.1-1.el9 to Cisco - releng - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11422
16:19:13 <jednorozec> considering
16:19:25 <jednorozec> .releng 11425
16:19:26 <zodbot> jednorozec: Issue #11425: openh264 is not a multilib repo - releng - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11425
16:19:47 <jednorozec> should I make compose for all active releases with multilib and send to cisco?
16:19:51 <jednorozec> including that el9
16:20:11 <nirik> yeah, I think so... if we can figure out how to do it.
16:20:16 <jednorozec> right
16:20:17 <jednorozec> so
16:20:26 <jednorozec> I looked briefly on dist-repos
16:20:51 <jednorozec> can we make the results not accessible? so nobody randomly downloads it from us?
16:21:30 <jednorozec> it would be super simplified over the current odcs stuff
16:21:34 <nirik> we already block h264 rpms on kojipkgs... but we will want to make sure it's working.
16:21:55 <nirik> that also means you have to copy from the nfs mount, can't download them and upload them somewhere.
16:22:01 <nirik> (but thats the case with odcs too)
16:22:13 <nirik> odcs does do multilib, it's just a config option.
16:22:23 <jednorozec> yup it does
16:22:26 <nirik> so, perhaps we should just do that for now and look at moving to dist-repos after?
16:22:33 <jednorozec> ack
16:22:50 <jednorozec> I can show guys in the morning meeting how to do openh264
16:23:45 <jednorozec> soo that is also all I have for today
16:23:56 <jednorozec> quick one it seems
16:24:00 <nirik> sounds good. So just add mulitlib there, do new repos, send em, and then we can test some dist-repos and see if we can switch
16:24:22 <jednorozec> yup that is the plan
16:24:43 <jednorozec> I have to create 2 tickets one for tracking this and one for tracking the odcs backends unification
16:24:47 <nirik> sounds good.
16:25:09 <jednorozec> #topic open floor
16:25:17 <patrikp[m]> I have a question.
16:25:24 <jednorozec> go on
16:25:31 <patrikp[m]> What are the differences between a compose and a system image?
16:25:55 <jednorozec> in context of pungi?
16:26:58 * nirik isn't sure what a system image is... a compose is a full build of all artifiacts and deliverables. ;)
16:27:11 <patrikp[m]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_image
16:27:31 <patrikp[m]> "In computing, a system image is a serialized copy of the entire state of a computer system stored in some non-volatile form such as a file."
16:27:31 <patrikp[m]> Are they synonyms then?
16:27:40 <jednorozec> nope
16:27:54 <jednorozec> in our context and context of that wiki page
16:28:07 <jednorozec> only system images we produce are docker images and qcow virtual images
16:28:13 <jednorozec> and they are product of compose
16:28:35 <nirik> huh, ok. The images we build are just bootable images, the state after the boot is not something we control or save...
16:29:36 <jednorozec> just that is not true for the docker
16:29:51 <jednorozec> thatis kind of that thing from wiki definition
16:29:55 <nirik> yeah, I guess so...
16:30:19 <jednorozec> academic debate :D
16:30:49 <patrikp[m]> jednorozec: So composes come first and system images are created from them?
16:30:58 <jednorozec> patrikp[m], nope
16:31:06 <jednorozec> compose is a process
16:31:11 <jednorozec> and also a result
16:31:20 <jednorozec> that is all the artifacts we have
16:31:38 <jednorozec> so when we run a compose it can be full one with all the deliverables
16:31:57 <jednorozec> or one that composes just repositories like updates and updates-testing
16:32:20 <jednorozec> one we fixed this morning, was a compose but no images were created
16:33:04 <jednorozec> and compose is also what nirik wrote, full build of all artifiacts and deliverables
16:33:30 <patrikp[m]> jednorozec: Ah. So when it is used as a noun, it's a compose (process).
16:34:49 <patrikp[m]> More basic question then...
16:35:22 <patrikp[m]> <nirik> "isn't sure what a system image..." <- > * <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> isn't sure what a system image is... a compose is a full build of all artifiacts and deliverables. ;)
16:35:23 <patrikp[m]> What are the definitions of "artifacts" and "deliverables"?
16:35:35 <jednorozec> so
16:35:59 <jednorozec> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/releases/f38/blocking/
16:36:10 <jednorozec> those are release blocking deliverables
16:37:26 <nirik> deliverables I think of as "Things we deliver to the customer(s)" and those consist of a number of different artifacts (a deliverable might have a number of different artifacts, like a image and a install tree, etc)
16:38:24 <jednorozec> also rpm build can be considered artifacts, basicaly anything that is produced by the compose process or build system
16:39:28 <jednorozec> does it make sense?
16:39:33 <jnsamyak> yep just on more clarified definitions I refer these from my notes: (correct me if it is wrong)
16:39:33 <jnsamyak> Artifacts are tangible or intangible items that are created, modified, or used during the project lifecycle. These items serve as documentation, builds, etc.
16:39:33 <jnsamyak> Deliverables, on the other hand, are specific tangible or intangible outputs that are produced at the completion of a project or at specific project milestones.
16:40:27 <nirik> sounds reasonable, yeah
16:40:54 <jednorozec> yup
16:42:56 <patrikp[m]> Would a system image fall under the (broader) category of a "deliverable" then? If we go by the definition of system image that I quoted earlier.
16:44:20 <jnsamyak> in my opinion yes
16:44:54 <jednorozec> if we had some but we dont
16:45:25 <jednorozec> except for the docker but that is a different story because its expecting some state on the host
16:45:52 <jednorozec> just the first sentese from the definition is something we just do not do
16:46:40 <patrikp[m]> <nirik> "isn't sure what a system image..." <- > * <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> isn't sure what a system image is... a compose is a full build of all artifiacts and deliverables. ;)
16:46:40 <patrikp[m]> And now that we established what deliverables and artifacts are... What is the definition of a "full build"?
16:47:35 <nirik> well, a build of all the artifacts and deliverables for whatever milestone/release
16:47:50 <nirik> not just some of them, but all you require
16:48:41 <patrikp[m]> Alright. I think I am starting to get it. Thank you very much.
16:49:12 * jnsamyak liked the discussion :D
16:49:23 <jnsamyak> one quick thing
16:49:31 <jnsamyak> just an update on f36 EOL, the releng koji_signed_cleanup script is still running, hopefully is on some p* named package so might get over soon, I'm watching over it; Once done, I'll shoot an email;
16:49:31 <jnsamyak> For that I modified a template a little bit (the tense), the draft is here: https://paste.centos.org/view/837232e7
16:49:31 <jnsamyak> If it is okay, I'll post this to email list (+1 are appreciated!)
16:51:55 <nirik> I'd say "will be available" instead of "were available"... and 'f37 will continue to' instead of 'f37 continued'
16:52:08 <jnsamyak> yep
16:52:20 <jnsamyak> will do that
16:52:20 <nirik> and 'Fedora Linux releases are documented' instead of 'Fedora Linux releases was documented'
16:52:35 <nirik> but looks good otherwise. +1
16:53:53 <jednorozec> I only speak czenglish so no input on this from my side
16:54:10 <nirik> ha.
16:54:36 <patrikp[m]> I would say Fedora GNU/Linux... But that is a topic for another time, another open floor. :-)
16:55:15 <nirik> ok, lets close out then... thanks everyone for coming. :) Much nicer when there's more people to discuss things.
16:55:21 <nirik> #endmeeting