<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:01:15
!startmeeting riscv-sig
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:01:17
Meeting started at 2025-01-07 16:01:15 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:01:17
The Meeting name is 'riscv-sig'
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:01:20
!meetingname riscv-sig
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:01:20
!topic init process / agenda gathering
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:01:21
The Meeting Name is now riscv-sig
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:01:26
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:01:27
Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:01:33
that's convenient :)
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:01:55
morning everyone. welcome to 2025. ;) What shall we have on the agenda today?
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:02:02
g'morning Nirik - hope you had a good holiday
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:02:23
yeah, got a lot of home infra hacking done. ;) Yours?
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:02:45
about the same! organized (parts) of my mess of a workspace, so we'll see how long that lasts
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:03:14
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:03:17
David Abdurachmanov (davidlt)
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:03:23
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:03:25
None (abologna)
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:03:38
I spent most of my break hacking on the P550 :)
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:03:52
nice.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:04:06
yes and no ;)
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:04:19
It seems all P550 boards will arrive later than anticipated.
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:04:59
agenda wise: I have nothing to bring today except that I am picking back up on the lusol/blas/etc chain we spoke about before the holidays
<@rwmj:matrix.org>
16:05:27
I have nothing this week, except to note I'm away til February
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:05:45
one topic I would like to discuss is getting "official" F41 images out
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:06:00
I think we're really close and we could get them out in 1/2 weeks top
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:06:07
I have a small status note about secondary koji setup: I managed to setup the database server before the break, but thats it. However, it's now at the top of my list, so I hope to work on the hub this week. It's going to be a bit anoying because we dropped all the secondary stuff in ansible, but I should be able to restore it with a bit more work.
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:06:34
I would like to include new OpenSBI + U-Boot release from F42 in our F41 images.
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:06:45
I'm choosing to read this as "one half week"
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:07:07
then you're choosing to be wrong ;)
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:07:28
Our Koji sometimes has performance issues, but so far I didn't manage to pin point the problem.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:07:42
How many images are we talking about? and what kernel(s) on them? ;) (I know we talked about this in december, but I can't recall the details)
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:08:27
generic cloud image + generic host image (works on VF2) + P550 image for sure
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:08:41
<10 if we include container images. We build 3 container images, cloud images, and then maybe board specific images. Maybe firmware blobs too.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:08:56
not sure how close we are to a BPI image?
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:10:06
Unknown. I think, Jason Montleon is toying with v6.13 kernel tree + EFI. So it might be possible to get it working as a normal Fedora too.
<@rwmj:matrix.org>
16:10:19
FWIW here is FU Wei's unofficial Fedora image: https://www.fedoravforce.org/
<@rwmj:matrix.org>
16:10:28
*images
<@jmontleon:fedora.im>
16:10:36
We probably need to figure out how to build u-boot for spacemit
<@rwmj:matrix.org>
16:10:49
those have proprietary bits however which is problematic
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:11:11
yeah, we don't want that
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:11:12
Our images only include the needed bits, not the whole thing (e.g. GPU).
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:11:33
we're aiming for headless build host for now
<@rwmj:matrix.org>
16:11:45
I agree
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:12:00
Spacemit and P550 images would only be there for build machines, not general consumption (but folks will still use them).
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:12:50
having a working image with vendor kernel (but built in Fedora and configured to be Fedora-like) is a stepping stone to a proper mainline image IMO
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:13:00
of course it's the vendor that should take care of the upstreaming
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:13:24
there will be big warning signs for these images. people will still use them :)
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:13:48
better than have them run Ubuntu or whatever
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:13:54
if only vendors did that. ;)
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:13:55
It's more like a stop gap solution. Allows us to use the hardware.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:14:02
yeah, exactly
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:14:05
we could just not put them on mirrors, download from the koji instance directly.. like, people can still get them if they want
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:14:11
but we're not advertising
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:14:24
they do! ... by getting us to do it. :P
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:14:43
I don't think that's useful. you're just pushing people towards Ubuntu. available with big warning signs is the way to go IMO
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:15:00
Depends on the company, but I would hope ESWIN will work on upstream at some point.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:15:05
yeah, I think as long as we set expectations having them is good.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:15:13
there's nothing inherently wrong with using them, as long as you're aware that you're not running "real" Fedora
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:15:22
which in a sense you're not doing anyway on riscv64 ;)
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:15:44
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/RISC-V/HiFive-Premier-P550
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:15:54
see the warning on top here. we could make it meaner
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:16:00
i don't mind either way, really. was mostly just offering an alternative
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:16:59
In general it seems we will have Fedora 41+ images for P550 (at least SiFive) before majority gets the boards.
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:17:23
not a bad thing!
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:17:29
in fact, one might say it's a good thing
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:17:36
that's good! people can flash Fedora instead of Ubuntu right after unboxing ;)
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:18:04
Isn't that a bit boring? 😉
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:18:17
some people *love* boring ;)
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:18:30
It was a bit unexpected that we could manage to handle all these problems remotely 😄
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:18:52
well Jason Montleon is amazing
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:19:06
so having him around basically counts as superpowers
<@jmontleon:fedora.im>
16:19:34
heh, just persistent building kernels
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:20:00
So is there a list of images/supported? should we have a wiki page on them? or?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:20:29
is there gonna be an unmatched image? ;) My builder is... really out of date.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:20:36
I was planning to update the wiki after building the next "even more unofficial" image for P550
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:20:44
which should happen tomorrow
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:21:11
I can only really document stuff that I have access to (QEMU, VF2, P550)
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:21:16
someone else will have to fill out the rest
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
16:21:28
!hi
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:21:31
nirik: don't touch it 😄 In general the existing disk image should work fine, but might need to spin new variants per board/depending how you boot them.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:21:35
but I can set up the structure and work on the "common" bits
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:21:37
Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:22:08
We should not touch the boards until we ready to switch to a new Koji.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:22:17
davidlt: I haven't been... just don't like running something so out of date, but thats ok... I will just let it run then.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:23:01
davidlt: you were talking about u-boot and OpenSBI from F42 earlier. do the packages you want already exist in F42?
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:23:09
or do we need upstream releases to happen?
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:23:38
New U-Boot (v2025.01) landed in F42 recently. I need to bump OpenSBI too (happened before Christmas).
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:24:10
Shouldn't too much of work, but I have been busy with F42 and large SOVERION bumps (catching up).
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:24:15
okay so theoretically we should just need to rebuild existing sources in a different environment
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:24:25
good
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:24:58
anything else you'd want to update before considering F41 "done"?
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:25:01
Yeah, rebuild OpenSBI, rebase U-Boot and should be OK. Let's say ~1 day of work (less if nothing explodes).
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:25:02
oh, another thing to note (but not sure how much it matters...): f42 mass rebuild starts next wed...
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:25:21
personally I'd like to see that audit package with backported upstream patches
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:25:27
that's the only item on my list
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:25:45
I am not ready for it, but it was never a problem for us. We typically launch ours later on.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:25:46
everything else is probably better handled in F42 at this point anyway
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:26:14
So we let all the problems to happen on upstream Koji, and then after it looks OK that's then I start it.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:27:05
still speaking for myself, I'll admit that I don't particularly care about the u-boot and OpenSBI updates either. if what we have right now is good enough to boot our targets, which it is, then we could easily leave things alone
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:27:16
but if you have your own desire to update them, by all means :)
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:27:27
I prefer to solve a number of SOVERSION bumps, etc. before mass rebuild happens to avoid a having a large number of builds failing.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:27:43
also, tracker for gcc15 failures from mass prebuild: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2333037
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:28:14
I've got to step away for a few... will read up when I get back. ;)
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:28:27
I constantly check gcc dist-git and https://gcc.gnu.org/git/?p=gcc.git;a=log;h=refs/vendors/redhat/heads/gcc-15-branch
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:31:05
davidlt: with all that was discussed, do you think the weekend of 18-19 would be a realistic goal to set for final F41 images?
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:33:22
Realistically we could go as-is right now. The only change we need to do is touch Kiwi things a bit after fedora-repo related changes.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:33:52
I have those changes ready. I will clean them up and send them your way by the end of the week
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:34:02
Unless we want to mask hvc0 or/and remove earlycon.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:35:13
so I'm going to take that as a yes? :)
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:35:36
Yes, to your question about 18-19 😄
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:35:44
great!
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:37:03
how far along is F42? could one realistically boot a minimal F41 VM and upgrade it to F42?
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:37:59
I'm still thinking about the audit thing
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:38:00
Content wise not by a lot. I really focusing on things that bump SOVERION and cause incompatibilities (i.e. breaks dependencies).
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:38:13
Thus not doing a large scale 24/7 builds right now.
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:38:34
if we can validate those in F42, then I'm not too concerned about leaving F41 alone
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:39:49
You most likely want to boot with that, and I most likely will break F42 at this stage.
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:40:29
I am trying to be precise, but I usually I am mixing 3-4 large Bodhi updates at a time. Just a large puzzle.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:41:07
The rate of change in rawhide was lower than normal over the holidays, but I expect it will heat up again now...
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:42:15
anyway we just need to validate the changes, it's not important that they end up in the images
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:42:23
so it's not a blocker in that regard
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:42:35
great
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:42:43
do we have other topics to discuss?
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:43:05
I think we're done for this one
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:43:19
yeah, I dont know that I have much else off hand...
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:44:03
random question: whats the status on support for those frame.work riscv boards? or are those still not actually existing?
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:44:43
Those are supported by Fu Wei in China. We don't have a board AFAIK.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:44:59
ok, fair enough
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:45:33
This one is a bit more tricky as it would require a full iGPU support. It seems there will be upstream support for it, but will take quite some time.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:45:59
yeah, takes time to upstream things.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:46:15
ok then, should we just end early today? Next meeting in 2 weeks?
<@davidlt:matrix.org>
16:46:17
Imagination is expanding support, but the company is on sale again too 😄
<@abologna:matrix.org>
16:48:18
nirik: ACK on both counts from my side
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:49:06
alrighty then. Thanks for coming everyone and lets get back to #riscv:fedoraproject.org
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:49:09
!endmeeting